Thoughts on Amari Cooper?

[Big Blitz]

He’s what the offense is holding back on till the playoffs. 

[Kirby Jackson]

What you saw today is why “everybody eats” isn’t the answer. It’s a nice part of the offense. It’s great to be able to throw to different people. Sometimes you need to just throw the ball to your best and they need to win. That TD today was EXACTLY why the Bills made the move. He’s a great player and hope he’s here long term.

[SoonerBillsFan]

26 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What you saw today is why “everybody eats” isn’t the answer. It’s a nice part of the offense. It’s great to be able to throw to different people. Sometimes you need to just throw the ball to your best and they need to win. That TD today was EXACTLY why the Bills made the move. He’s a great player and hope he’s here long term.

It's one thing still lacking on this offense.  2-3 wr/te that can create separation is a dire need.

 

For some reason I thought that was the emphasis this offseason?  Finding receivers to create separation. 

[ghostwriter]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

He’s what the offense is holding back on till the playoffs. 

Maybe. I suspect that he’s still getting the playbook down and his timing with Josh.

[Maine-iac]

7 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

It's one thing still lacking on this offense.  2-3 wr/te that can create separation is a dire need.

 

For some reason I thought that was the emphasis this offseason?  Finding receivers to create separation. 

Seen this before.  Shakir is top ten in separation.  Second WR on the list.  Reading further down the list it's LaPorta, Kincaid, and then Kittles in exactly that order.  Not sure what more you can do.  

[Special K]

He's the anti-Diggs.......no complaining about catches or targets.....just goes out and does his job in a professional manner, and can come up with the big play when called upon.

 

I too hope the Bills can figure out a way to keep him around for a few more years.

 

Today's catch will be a Sportscenter Top 10 for sure!!

[Thurman#1]

On 12/30/2024 at 4:11 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

Let’s let it go…and agree to disagree.  I mean it’s been beaten to death and I don’t have the time ot energy to keep breaking down everything you are wrong about again.  

 

 

Not surprised you don't have the energy. It's tough being that wrong that consistently. And it must be irritating too, you're a smart guy, you're not usually this wrong, particularly so obviously.

 

I mean, you got all macho and said you "did the work and checked the facts,"  but what you really meant was that you did a deep dive on how Cooper's numbers could be made to look bad. Without bothering to show any comparisons of the numbers to anyone else's, except if I remember correctly, a very very quick overall  Amari Cooper and JaMarr Chase. And that's a stupid comparison from instant one. Cooper was never in Chase's league. Of course Cooper is going to have more unproductive games; Cooper gets many fewer targets and has DeSean Watson and Jacoby Brissett throwing to him rather than Joe Burrow the last four years. Clearly the comparisons you were making were the wrong ones, comparing Cooper to true #1s. Which is dumb. They get far more targets than Cooper has and that's the reason they have fewer unproductive games.

 

You also got so weirdly twisted up about this that you have to make dumb arguments like saying that Cooper's Under 30 and Under 40 numbers are "a little worse" than Deebo's (in reality Cooper's numbers were 1% higher at Under 40 and 1% lower at Under 30). That isn't lower. It's the same. Same with Sutton and Pickens, the differences are 1% or 2% different, statistically completely insignificant. Your rabid opinions on this force you to pretend there are differences there.

 

The point is obvious. When you compare Cooper to his peers as you should, all of them have very similar numbers, Cooper's 35% and 28% to Sutton's 35% and 26% and also Cooper's 35% and 28% to Pickens' 34% and 26%. Virtually the same.

 

Right around the top of the bell curve, very close.

 

Because, simply, that's how stats work for guys who are much the same type of player with roughly the same opportunities.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2024 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 12/30/2024 at 8:30 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

What you saw today is why “everybody eats” isn’t the answer. It’s a nice part of the offense. It’s great to be able to throw to different people. Sometimes you need to just throw the ball to your best and they need to win. That TD today was EXACTLY why the Bills made the move. He’s a great player and hope he’s here long term.

 

 

Yeah, he's very good.

 

Nah, gotta disagree, "everybody eats" work fine. We scored a lot. Including many plays that didn't involve Cooper. Coop was in 31% of our offensive snaps. We did fine with and without him, same as it's been since he got here.

 

We're apparently better with him. But everybody eats works, if your QB is Josh Allen and you've got our personnel.

 

I'm sure they'll be open to bringing him back, but it'll depend on money, contract, situation and so on. I'd like to see it, myself, if they can work it out.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2024 by Thurman#1

[Kirby Jackson]

40 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, he's very good.

 

Nah, gotta disagree, "everybody eats" work fine. We scored a lot. Including many plays that didn't involve Cooper. Coop was in 31% of our offensive snaps. We did fine with and without him, same as it's been since he got here.

 

We're apparently better with him. But everybody eats works, if your QB is Josh Allen and you've got our personnel.

 

I'm sure they'll be open to bringing him back, but it'll depend on money, contract, situation and so on. I'd like to see it, myself, if they can work it out.

 

 

We scored a lot except a few times (specifically Baltimore). When teams defend you well, you need guys that just win on their own. Obviously Josh Allen does that regularly. James Cook makes some plays on his own as well. In the passing game that was CLEARLY lacking. That’s why the Bills traded a 3rd for 1/2 of a year of Cooper. Sometimes you just need to chuck it down in his direction and hope that he wins because he’s better than the guy across from him. That’s what #1 WRs do. That’s what he did last week. Coleman is also capable of making some plays where he just wins vs. the DB. It’s less consistent though because he rarely has space. Throws to Coleman are constantly in tight coverage but his ball skills are quite good.
 

The difference with stars and role players is when teams have a good defensive scheme (as Baltimore did). When Brady can scheme guys open everywhere, “everybody eats” is fine. When he can’t, you need talent to win or you get trounced (as they did in that game). The whole offense was unlocked when Cooper got here (forget about snap percentages). Teams can no longer jam the middle and challenge you to win on the outside. That absolutely is a function of an outside threat. Again, the Bills traded a 3rd because, to their credit, they saw that. 

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Not surprised you don't have the energy. It's tough being that wrong that consistently. And it must be irritating too, you're a smart guy, you're not usually this wrong, particularly so obviously.

 

I mean, you got all macho and said you "did the work and checked the facts,"  but what you really meant was that you did a deep dive on how Cooper's numbers could be made to look bad. Without bothering to show any comparisons of the numbers to anyone else's, except if I remember correctly, a very very quick overall  Amari Cooper and JaMarr Chase. And that's a stupid comparison from instant one. Cooper was never in Chase's league. Of course Cooper is going to have more unproductive games; Cooper gets many fewer targets and has DeSean Watson and Jacoby Brissett throwing to him rather than Joe Burrow the last four years. Clearly the comparisons you were making were the wrong ones, comparing Cooper to true #1s. Which is dumb. They get far more targets than Cooper has and that's the reason they have fewer unproductive games.

 

You also got so weirdly twisted up about this that you have to make dumb arguments like saying that Cooper's Under 30 and Under 40 numbers are "a little worse" than Deebo's (in reality Cooper's numbers were 1% higher at Under 40 and 1% lower at Under 30). That isn't lower. It's the same. Same with Sutton and Pickens, the differences are 1% or 2% different, statistically completely insignificant. Your rabid opinions on this force you to pretend there are differences there.

 

The point is obvious. When you compare Cooper to his peers as you should, all of them have very similar numbers, Cooper's 35% and 28% to Sutton's 35% and 26% and also Cooper's 35% and 28% to Pickens' 34% and 26%. Virtually the same.

 

Right around the top of the bell curve, very close.

 

Because, simply, that's how stats work for guys who are much the same type of player with roughly the same opportunities.

 

 

 

Like I said, agree to disagree as I dont have the time nor desire to keep beating a dead horse and correcting the things you again are wrong about.  Its a bit like Groundhogs Day at this point.

[skibum]

I hope they can keep Amari around. I suppose if they want to swing for the fences and land Tee Higgins or pull another big trade for some other superstar, OK fine. But it's hard to do much better than Amari Cooper, and I bet he's more than willing to sign a team-friendly deal (and re-structure when requested). Every offense needs a guy who can reliably beat his man, make tough catches, and give defenses something to account for. Cooper/Coleman/Shakir is a balanced WR group that covers all the bases. And Amari wants nothing more than to be on a winning team with a good culture and a superstar QB throwing him the ball. It's a good marriage all around. 

 

I know he hasn't shown us a monster game yet, but I think he will prove his worth in due time. After seeing his TD grab on Sunday, you know he's still got it.  

Edited December 31, 2024 by skibum

[Chandler#81]

He’s still a real talent and will be beneficial in the playoffs. That’s all we want.

on the other hand, age is showing itself..

[Warriorspikes51]

On 12/29/2024 at 5:08 PM, Big Blitz said:

He’s what the offense is holding back on till the playoffs. 

 

Cooper + Kincaid will have an important increase in the playoffs IMO 

Maybe the best thing about Cooper so far is he's helped Mack Hollins and Keon play roles they are more suited for

[Since1981]

On 12/29/2024 at 6:30 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

That TD today was EXACTLY why the Bills made the move. He’s a great player and hope he’s here long term

Stats are interesting.
Before Amari Cooper (First 6 Games):

• Record: 4-2

• Avg Points Game: 27.5

• Passing Yds Game: 186.3

• Total Touchdowns: 13

 

After Amari Cooper (Subsequent 7 Games):

• Record: 6-1

• Avg Points game: 33.6

• Passing Yards Per Game: 256.4

• Total Touchdowns: 21

[Warriorspikes51]

3 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Stats are interesting.
Before Amari Cooper (First 6 Games):

• Record: 4-2

• Avg Points Game: 27.5

• Passing Yds Game: 186.3

• Total Touchdowns: 13

 

After Amari Cooper (Subsequent 7 Games):

• Record: 6-1

• Avg Points game: 33.6

• Passing Yards Per Game: 256.4

• Total Touchdowns: 21

He really gives us a solid 11 personnel look.  Vastly improved from before the trade. 

looks like he's worth an extra TD per game to the offense 
 

Edited December 31, 2024 by Warriorspikes51

[3rdand12]

On 12/29/2024 at 7:22 PM, Maine-iac said:

Seen this before.  Shakir is top ten in separation.  Second WR on the list.  Reading further down the list it's LaPorta, Kincaid, and then Kittles in exactly that order.  Not sure what more you can do.  

Shakir has shown up this year ! Kincaid has been injured so weird stat

Need one who does it with a burst and good hands, and smart

Too much ?

[Since1981]

Buffalo finally has WR/TEs that can catch, high point, YAC, box out DBs, catch contested. It’s been a decade in waiting (and, no, Charles Clay doesn’t count!!!!)

 

Josh doesn’t have elite catchers but they’re collectively all “good/better” now. 

[3rdand12]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, he's very good.

 

Nah, gotta disagree, "everybody eats" work fine. We scored a lot. Including many plays that didn't involve Cooper. Coop was in 31% of our offensive snaps. We did fine with and without him, same as it's been since he got here.

 

We're apparently better with him. But everybody eats works, if your QB is Josh Allen and you've got our personnel.

 

I'm sure they'll be open to bringing him back, but it'll depend on money, contract, situation and so on. I'd like to see it, myself, if they can work it out.

 

 

I think it's both Kirby's point and yours. If they can be allowed to😉 mutually co exist 

[Since1981]

Josh Allen’s contract extension is expected this spring, and I anticipate the team will negotiate another cap-friendly agreement. This would likely include provisions where Allen has a voice in shaping the offense and prioritizing offensive line. By structuring the deal this way, Allen positions himself to potentially earn more over two additional years later in his career while helping the team maintain financial flexibility, rather than forcing a deal that could strain the salary cap (room for OL, WR)

Edited December 31, 2024 by Since1981

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Josh Allen’s contract extension is expected this spring, and I anticipate the team will negotiate another cap-friendly agreement. This would likely include provisions where Allen has a voice in shaping the offense and prioritizing offensive line. By structuring the deal this way, Allen positions himself to potentially earn more over two additional years later in his career while helping the team maintain financial flexibility, rather than forcing a deal that could strain the salary cap (room for OL, WR)

 

Respectfully, I don’t think his contract will include anything regarding control over management of the team. That would be insane. They will have an understanding, but you can’t give a player personnel power in their contract. How would that work if they disagree?