Bills All Pro 1st team

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Most of these are correct. 

 

Allen is more talented than Jim. But 4 straight SB's is unheard of. Kelly>Allen.

 

 

That’s just such a lazy argument. If you drop Allen onto that roster they win 2 or 3 of those 4 (and probably go the Ronnie Harmon year as well). Kelly was the steward of an unbelievable offense. Josh Allen is an unbelievable offense. The gap between them is quite wide.

Edited Tuesday at 09:19 PM by Kirby Jackson

[Johnny Bravo]

20 hours ago, Danger Mouse said:

Sorry - I'm sure you've done this so many time before

 

But I'm really interested in your views. 

 

The game here is, obviously, the best Bills of all time per position. But  one player per position.

 

Not the established best. The one YOU think is best. in YOUR opinion:

 

 

Quote reply answers and educate me:

 

QB

RB:

WR:

TE:

OT:

G:

C :

 

DE:

OLB:

MLB:

CB:

FS/SS: 

 

P:

K - actually, no. 

 

KR: 

 

Head Coach:

What a fun topic!

QB=Allen

RB=OJ

WR=Moulds

TE=Riemersma 
OT=Dion

OG=Joe D

C=Hull

 

DE=Bruce

OLB=Biscuit

MLB=Sam Cowart

CB=Odomes

S=Henry Jones

 

P=Moorman

K=Christie

 

KR=McGee

 

Coach=McDermott

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:59 PM by Johnny Bravo

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

20 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

QB: Josh Allen

RB: OJ Simpson

WR: Andre Reed

TE: Pete Metzelaars

OT: Jason Peters

OG: Joe DeLamielleure

C: Kent Hull

 

DE: Bruce Smith

DT: Kyle Williams

OLB: Cornelius Bennett

MLB: London Fletcher

CB: Antoine Winfield

S: Micah Hyde

 

K: Steve Christie

P: Brian Moorman

KR: Terrence McGee

Quote reply answers and educate me:

 

QB: Josh Allen

RB: Thurman Thomas

WR: Andre Reed

TE: Pete Meztzelaars

OT: Dion Dawkins

G: Joe Delamielleure

C : Kent Hull

 

DE: Bruce Smith

DT: Tom Sestak

OLB: Mike Stratton

MLB: Shane Conlan

CB: Butch Byrd

FS/SS: Micah Hyde

 

P: Brian Moorman

K - Steve Christie

 

KR: Terrance McGee

 

Head Coach: Marv Levy

[ticketssince61]

13 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

He has to get to the super bowl imo. That's how I view it 

 

Reed dropped two critical 1st downs when buffalo was up 12-3.... 

 

Kelly only had the ball for 19 min

 

Those still haunt me - we were driving late in the half and if he caught the ball we might have score to make the game 19-3 or 15-3. Minimally, the Giants would not have had time to score the TD before the half to make it 12-10. With a bigger lead for the Bills, the Giants likely would have had to change their ground control game plan

 

 

[BigDingus]

On 12/23/2024 at 6:30 PM, Danger Mouse said:

Sorry - I'm sure you've done this so many time before

 

But I'm really interested in your views. 

 

The game here is, obviously, the best Bills of all time per position. But  one player per position.

 

Not the established best. The one YOU think is best. in YOUR opinion:

 

 

Quote reply answers and educate me:

 

QB

RB:

WR:

TE:

OT:

G:

C :

 

DE:

OLB:

MLB:

CB:

FS/SS: 

 

P:

K - actually, no. 

 

KR: 

 

Head Coach:

 

QB: Josh Allen

 

RB: Thurman Thomas

WR1: Andre Reed

WR2: Stefon Diggs

WR3: Eric Moulds

TE: Jay Riemersma (fight me!)

 

T1: Jason Peters

T2: Dion Dawkins

G1: Joe DeLamielleure

G2: Ruben Brown (fight me again!)

C : Kent Hull

 

DE1: Bruce Smith (duh)

DE2: Mario Williams

DT1: Kyle Williams

DT2: Marcell Dareus

 

OLB1: Cornelius Bennett

OLB2: Takeo Spikes

MLB: London Fletcher

 

CB1: Antoine Winfield

CB2: Nate Clements

CB3: Stephon Gilmore

FS: Micah Hyde

SS: Jordan Poyer

(Yeah, I know that's 12 defensive players, but it depends on 4-3 or 3-4 scheme!)

 

P: Brian Moorman

K: Tyler Bass... pre-this year.

 

KR: Terrence McGee

[BobbyC81]

On 12/23/2024 at 5:52 PM, MJS said:

QB: Jim Kelly

RB: OJ Simpson

WR1: Andre Reed

WR2: Eric Moulds

WR3: Elbert Dubenion

TE: Dawson Knox

OT: Will Wolford

G: Joe DeLamielleure

C :Kent Hull

 

DE: Bruce Smith

DT: Kyle Williams

OLB: Cornelius Bennett

MLB: Mike Stratton

CB: Butch Byrd

FS/SS: George Saimes

 

P: Brian Moorman

K: Steve Christie

KR: Terrance McGee

ST: Steve Tasker

 

Head Coach: Marv Levy

One of the best lists so far and likely from an old-timer like myself.

[Kirby Jackson]

58 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

One of the best lists so far and likely from an old-timer like myself.

With all due respect, the nostalgia of what Kelly’s teams accomplished, is far beyond the quality of Kelly as a player. He’s not in Allen’s league. It’s just not a reasonable opinion, at this point to believe that he’s a superior player. This list is the BEST players at each position in Bills history not THE MOST IMPORTANT (even still an argument could be made that Allen was more important). That’s an important distinction. 
 

Let me ask it a little differently, “if prime Kelly and prime Allen were both on this team now, who would start?” What about, “if prime Kelly and prime Allen were both on those early 1990’s teams? Who would start?” When you do it like that there isn’t a logical argument to make for Kelly. He was very good. He was ELITE at operating that system. There’s a guy in the AFCE that is very good and elite at operating his system. It’s not Allen, Rodgers or Maye. I’m not saying that Kelly is Tua. Of course, he’s way better than that but you get the point. There’s a massive difference in guys that you win with vs. guys that you win because of. You won because of Kelly sometimes, like you do Jalen Hurts. Often, the quality of his roster overwhelms teams. It’s extremely rare that the quality of the Bills roster overwhelms teams if Allen isn’t at least very good. Both teams win a lot.

Edited Wednesday at 12:06 PM by Kirby Jackson

[Yockopondowsk]

QB: Allen

HB  # 32

Split end:  Andre Reed

Flanker: Elbert Dubenion 

TE. Metzlaars. 

OT: Wofford/ House

G: Billy Shaw / Joe D 

C : Hull

FB: Cookie Gilchrist 

DE: Bruce / McDole

DT: Ted Washington / Sestak

OLB: Biscuit/Talley

MLB: Harry Jacobs

CB: Robert James

CB: Butch Byrd 

FS/SS: Micah Hyde / Jordan Poyer

 

P: Moorman

K: Pete Gogolak.  

 

KR:  Charley Warner

 

Head Coach: Lou Saban 

Edited Wednesday at 12:00 PM by Yockopondowsk
Forgot some positions

[BRH]

16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s just such a lazy argument. If you drop Allen onto that roster they win 2 or 3 of those 4 (and probably go the Ronnie Harmon year as well). Kelly was the steward of an unbelievable offense. Josh Allen is an unbelievable offense. The gap between them is quite wide.

 

I agree with you.  On the flip side, I bet if you dropped prime Bruce Smith onto THIS roster we’d already have gone to multiple SBs and won at least one by now.  And there are others I would take from the ‘90s roster to put this one over the hump before I took Kelly:  Thurman for sure.  Kent Hull.  Even, given our ST woes, Steve Tasker.  But if you ask the question “what one player would you take from this roster to make the ‘90s team better,” the answer is always, always Josh Allen.

 

And I loved Jim Kelly.  But those are the facts.  In my opinion, that is.  

[MJS]

4 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

One of the best lists so far and likely from an old-timer like myself.

Nope, I'm a young guy! But Bills history is really interesting to me. I'm not even old enough to remember the 90's superbowl teams, haha.

Edited Wednesday at 03:28 PM by MJS

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, BRH said:

 

I agree with you.  On the flip side, I bet if you dropped prime Bruce Smith onto THIS roster we’d already have gone to multiple SBs and won at least one by now.  And there are others I would take from the ‘90s roster to put this one over the hump before I took Kelly:  Thurman for sure.  Kent Hull.  Even, given our ST woes, Steve Tasker.  But if you ask the question “what one player would you take from this roster to make the ‘90s team better,” the answer is always, always Josh Allen.

 

And I loved Jim Kelly.  But those are the facts.  In my opinion, that is.  

Agree again!! Bruce was incredible. Prior to this season he was the best Bills player that I ever saw. I think that I have Allen ahead of him now because of positional value but it’s close. Those ‘90’s teams were far and away the most talented teams in the history of the franchise. They, along with those Cowboys teams in the later years of the run, were the most talented teams in the NFL (and by a lot).

32 minutes ago, MJS said:

Nope, I'm a young guy! But Bills history is really interesting to me. I'm not even old enough to remember the 90's superbowl teams, haha.

Wait so you have Kelly over Allen but didn’t see Kelly?!? 😂😂😂 Nevermind, it sounds like you were told some pretty incredible tales of that era. I’m not here to confirm nor deny the existence of the tooth fairy. Merry Christmas!!

Edited Wednesday at 04:00 PM by Kirby Jackson

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Wait so you have Kelly over Allen but didn’t see Kelly?!? 😂😂😂 Nevermind, it sounds like you were told some pretty incredible tales of that era. I’m not here to confirm nor deny the existence of the tooth fairy. Merry Christmas!!

I have seen many games from that era. I have Kelly over Allen because I still think his legacy is greater than Allen's. He took the Bills to 4 superbowls and has 5 pro bowl and 1 all pro seasons versus Allen's 2 pro bowl and no all pro seasons. He also has 101 wins to Allen's 75. Kelly also has 10k more passing yards and about 40 more passing TDs.

 

He played in a much more difficult era to play QB. I just think his accomplishments are greater than Josh Allen's. If we are going with pure talent, it would be Josh Allen, but to me, being the best means more than just talent. It requires accomplishments and awards like superbowls, pro bowls, etc., and it also means longevity and accumulating stats and wins.

 

I have no doubt that Josh Allen will end his career as the best QB in Bills history and will be a first-ballot hall of famer.

Edited Wednesday at 04:35 PM by MJS

[Kelly to Allen]

19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s just such a lazy argument. If you drop Allen onto that roster they win 2 or 3 of those 4 (and probably go the Ronnie Harmon year as well). Kelly was the steward of an unbelievable offense. Josh Allen is an unbelievable offense. The gap between them is quite wide.

Jim Kelly is borderline a top ten QB ever. If he's not 9 or 10 he's certainly right up there at 10-15

 

I agree that Allen is more talented but that's not the whole point 

 

Allen has to get to the super bowl 

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:41 PM by Kelly to Allen

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agree again!! Bruce was incredible. Prior to this season he was the best Bills player that I ever saw. I think that I have Allen ahead of him now because of positional value but it’s close. Those ‘90’s teams were far and away the most talented teams in the history of the franchise. They, along with those Cowboys teams in the later years of the run, were the most talented teams in the NFL (and by a lot).

Wait so you have Kelly over Allen but didn’t see Kelly?!? 😂😂😂 Nevermind, it sounds like you were told some pretty incredible tales of that era. I’m not here to confirm nor deny the existence of the tooth fairy. Merry Christmas!!

These kinds of lists are always subjective because there aren’t many folks like me that have seen all the Bills teams and players.  When you say that the SB era teams were far and away the most talented, you ignore the two AFL championship team that were dominant in their era.  Much like some folks here don’t list players like Shaw or Sestak or Saimes who were dominant in ther day.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

From an observer since the 70s, Josh Allen peak is at a level Jim Kelly could only dream about....and Jim would agree. I'm not much for the argument that his cumulative stats are better. That's just ballast to the career.....Josh will add in time. To me the taller guy will always be better and no matter how fat the shorter guy was he'll never be taller.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Jim Kelly is borderline a top ten QB ever. If he's not 9 or 10 he's certainly right up there at 10-15

 

I agree that Allen is more talented but that's not the whole point 

 

Allen has to get to the super bowl 

 

No he’s not. You show me a list that has him there. He’s borderline top 25. He’s Moon or Aikman. Josh is trending towards top 5 and will be top 10. Allen is MILES ahead of Kelly. 
 

I do remember the early 90’s teams well. They were like a better version of the current Eagles with Jim Kelly playing the role of Jalen Hurts. They had the best 2 way back in the game and an elite defense with a DPOY candidate. They had an elite number 1 WR and a great OL. They won a lot. The current Eagles are a great comparison. 

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

These kinds of lists are always subjective because there aren’t many folks like me that have seen all the Bills teams and players.  When you say that the SB era teams were far and away the most talented, you ignore the two AFL championship team that were dominant in their era.  Much like some folks here don’t list players like Shaw or Sestak or Saimes who were dominant in ther day.

I had both Shaw and Sestak, along with Ernie Warlick on my list. I’m not ignoring them. The 90’s teams are the best teams though.

5 hours ago, MJS said:

I have seen many games from that era. I have Kelly over Allen because I still think his legacy is greater than Allen's. He took the Bills to 4 superbowls and has 5 pro bowl and 1 all pro seasons versus Allen's 2 pro bowl and no all pro seasons. He also has 101 wins to Allen's 75. Kelly also has 10k more passing yards and about 40 more passing TDs.

 

He played in a much more difficult era to play QB. I just think his accomplishments are greater than Josh Allen's. If we are going with pure talent, it would be Josh Allen, but to me, being the best means more than just talent. It requires accomplishments and awards like superbowls, pro bowls, etc., and it also means longevity and accumulating stats and wins.

 

I have no doubt that Josh Allen will end his career as the best QB in Bills history and will be a first-ballot hall of famer.

You’re a great poster. I’m not going to debate on Christmas. I saw every game each played and the gap is wide. If both, in their primes, were on the same team, it wouldn’t be a QB competition. Allen is way ahead of Kelly in terms of impact. Kelly was what Jalen Hurts is to the Eagles.

Edited Wednesday at 10:01 PM by Kirby Jackson

[oldmanfan]

58 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

No he’s not. You show me a list that has him there. He’s borderline top 25. He’s Moon or Aikman. Josh is trending towards top 5 and will be top 10. Allen is MILES ahead of Kelly. 
 

I do remember the early 90’s teams well. They were like a better version of the current Eagles with Jim Kelly playing the role of Jalen Hurts. They had the best 2 way back in the game. An elite defense with a DPOy candidate. They had an elite number 1 WR and a great OL. They won a lot. The current Eagles are a great comparison. 

I had both Shaw and Sestak, along with Ernie Warlick on my list. I’m not ignoring them. The 90’s teams are the best teams though.

You’re a great poster. I’m not going to debate on Christmas. I saw every game each played and the gap is wide. If both, in their primes, were on the same team, it wouldn’t be a QB competition. Allen is way ahead of Kelly in terms of impact. Kelly was what Jalen Hurts is to the Eagles.

Kelly was a first ballot HOFer.  Josh is well on his way towards being one.  I see no reason to denigrate one in favor of the other.  As for comparing teams,  the AFL championship teams were dominant, especially on defense.  So to just conclude the 90’s teams were better is shortchanging the AFL champions IMHO.

Edited Wednesday at 09:28 PM by oldmanfan

[Big Turk]

On 12/24/2024 at 1:39 PM, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Most of these are correct. 

 

Allen is more talented than Jim. But 4 straight SB's is unheard of. Kelly>Allen.

 

 

 

Please. Allen doesn't have 4 or 5 HOF players he is playing with.

 

If he did he would have won more Super Bowls than Kelly got to.

 

If anything, Kelly underperformed with the talent he has at his disposal.

Edited Wednesday at 09:32 PM by Big Turk

[Billsfanatic8989]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Please. Allen doesn't have 4 or 5 HOF he is playing with.

 

If he did he would have won more Super Bowls than Kelly got to.

We can't go by hypothetical. 

 

 

[Big Turk]

Just now, Billsfanatic8989 said:

We can't go by hypothetical. 

 

 

 

And we can't go by delusional either. Allen is a far better player than Kelly every was.