The Defesne is in Trouble

[L Ron Burgundy]

On 12/23/2024 at 4:27 PM, Warriorspikes51 said:

Call Aaron Donald.  Not joking. 

Worst he can say is no, lol.

On 12/24/2024 at 11:32 AM, Kelly to Allen said:

I'm judging the defense in the playoffs. 

Well if you go by previous playoff performances you should understand what we are worried about.  

[Bermuda Triangle]

On 12/23/2024 at 11:59 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Every playoff loss is us being uncontrollably lit up. Just defense on skates from start to finish. It doesn’t matter what you say. There is a percentage of bills fans that will just relentlessly defend the defense no matter what. The defense sucks. Any QB that is willing to be patient can have whatever they want on 3rd down. Any physical team runs us over. That’s how it’s been that’s how it is. We are almost always ahead because our QB Is an all time great. It makes teams predictable. When we force turnovers, we get teams in tough spots. We are front runners. We never force punts and we never set the time.  Every good offense has us on skates. If we aren’t turning ppl over, we aren’t stopping them. That’s relying on fluke BS. That’s the reality. But no matter how often it’s shown, some people just will refuse to see it. This defense has been the issue all along. And it’s NOT THE PLAYERS. It’s the scheme 

Agreed with this post in general, except that I do think it’s part personnel and part scheme 

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 12/23/2024 at 9:22 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The defense is why we haven’t won a Super Bowl yet. We have the best player in the league at the most important position in sports and our offense is consistently excellent. 

You spelled Sean wrong. Defense was ranked #1 and #2 in 2021 and 2022 under Leslie.

[DapperCam]

19 minutes ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

You spelled Sean wrong. Defense was ranked #1 and #2 in 2021 and 2022 under Leslie.

#1 based on beating up cupcakes in the regular season.

2021 - A great defense isn't giving up 42 points to any team (especially when there were zero turnovers by the offense to give a short field), and definitely isn't allowing the game tying score in 13 seconds.

2022 - A great defense isn't giving up 31 points to Skylar Thompson or giving up 27 points at home in the Divisional round.

The scheme of this defense plays well in the regular season, and gets obliterated in the playoffs. This has been true since the corpse of Philip Rivers was one or two passes from upsetting us in the Wild Card.

 

[Buffalo Ballin]

Okay, OP is panicking. Everything is doomed. The meteor is heading our way to destroy us all. OP is pointing his finger in the sky.

 

BUT what can we possibly do? We're just posters on a message board. Did you want discourse, but not actual change? We don't know.

 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Buffalo Ballin

[BillsFanForever19]

On 12/25/2024 at 1:32 PM, Don Otreply said:

If Babich schemes to contain the run we will be fine, if not, it will be frustrating…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Do you think he hasn't been scheming to contain the run?

 

Do you think when we played the Ravens and they ran all over us that Babich looked at the tandem of Lamar and King Henry and put out a plan to all out contain the pass?

 

I don't think Babich is the main problem. It's poor execution in missed tackles and being beaten by blockers that's the problem. It's players not performing at the level they played last year. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by BillsFanForever19

[JP51]

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Do you think he hasn't been scheming to contain the run?

 

Do you think when we played the Ravens and they ran all over us that Babich looked at the tandem of Lamar and King Henry and put out a plan to all out contain the pass?

 

I don't think Babich is the main problem. It's poor execution in missed tackles and being beaten by blockers that's the problem. It's players not performing at the level they played last year. 

I do think player performance is a problem... Especially with Oliver and Jones... and likely Miller although he is better this year than last.... but I also thing you have a completely new Safety tandem, Floyd is gone, Williams is new and Bernard cant hold it all down. Pass rush with 4 is non existent, OL dominating DL and small LB getting manhandled. Its a combo of both for sure. Babich I do think is a problem, but not for the reasons most think... I think if he had the personell he would be ok. I just dont think he has the moxie to adjust scheme based on skill... I think that the safety tandem and the LB getting mauled especially their pass coverage dictates that we only rush 4 and keep an extra DB out. I have never seen Taron Johnson on the field so much and so critical to the D when he isnt... I have no idea what you do about it now... other than go for broke and become a high percentage Blitzing team and hope that you dont get killed.. but our Defenses death by 1000 paper cut focus is not stopping anyone and keeping Allen off the field... maybe its better to give up a big play or two and get to the QB...  I just dont know. 

[Big Turk]

31st in EPA/play on 3rd downs

32nd(aka DEAD LAST) in EPA/play on pass plays on 3rd down

 

Unless something drastically changes between now and the playoffs, Allen will have to go superhuman and pray for a turnover or two every game.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Big Turk

[JimmyNoodles]

On 12/23/2024 at 11:59 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Every playoff loss is us being uncontrollably lit up. Just defense on skates from start to finish. It doesn’t matter what you say. There is a percentage of bills fans that will just relentlessly defend the defense no matter what. The defense sucks. Any QB that is willing to be patient can have whatever they want on 3rd down. Any physical team runs us over. That’s how it’s been that’s how it is. We are almost always ahead because our QB Is an all time great. It makes teams predictable. When we force turnovers, we get teams in tough spots. We are front runners. We never force punts and we never set the time.  Every good offense has us on skates. If we aren’t turning ppl over, we aren’t stopping them. That’s relying on fluke BS. That’s the reality. But no matter how often it’s shown, some people just will refuse to see it. This defense has been the issue all along. And it’s NOT THE PLAYERS. It’s the scheme 

Basically agree with all of this. The only way this defense works is with a dominant front 4, but then pretty much any philosophy works with a dominant front 4.  This D cannot impose their will against any good offense.  They need to blitz to try and stop teams which carries a lot of risk and they don’t seem to get home a lot.  The strategy in the playoffs should be more stunting up front and hopefully more effective blitz strategies. But ultimately, like you said, it’s on Josh to outscore teams. 

[BananaB]

41 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

31st in EPA/play on 3rd downs

32nd(aka DEAD LAST) in EPA/play on pass plays on 3rd down

 

Unless something drastically changes between now and the playoffs, Allen will have to go superhuman and pray for a turnover or two every game.

Ouch

[Bookie Man]

We might have the weakest of all afc defenses in the post season. Makes me very uneasy. 

[TheWeatherMan]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Do you think he hasn't been scheming to contain the run?

 

Do you think when we played the Ravens and they ran all over us that Babich looked at the tandem of Lamar and King Henry and put out a plan to all out contain the pass?

 

I don't think Babich is the main problem. It's poor execution in missed tackles and being beaten by blockers that's the problem. It's players not performing at the level they played last year. 

What about players 10 yards off WRs on 3rd and short-medium?  Is that an execution or scheme issue?  The McDermott zone has been McToasted on 3rd down all year long.  

[Drew21PA]

Has become evident that 13 seconds may have been our best shot 

[KOKBILLS]

On 12/23/2024 at 11:59 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Every playoff loss is us being uncontrollably lit up. Just defense on skates from start to finish. It doesn’t matter what you say. There is a percentage of bills fans that will just relentlessly defend the defense no matter what. The defense sucks. Any QB that is willing to be patient can have whatever they want on 3rd down. Any physical team runs us over. That’s how it’s been that’s how it is. We are almost always ahead because our QB Is an all time great. It makes teams predictable. When we force turnovers, we get teams in tough spots. We are front runners. We never force punts and we never set the time.  Every good offense has us on skates. If we aren’t turning ppl over, we aren’t stopping them. That’s relying on fluke BS. That’s the reality. But no matter how often it’s shown, some people just will refuse to see it. This defense has been the issue all along. And it’s NOT THE PLAYERS. It’s the scheme 

 

I pretty much totally agree... I do however think their talent has been more on the average side, especially the past couple years and the depth has pretty much failed most tests. I've said before it's a coaching, scheme, talent combo crap-sandwich on Defense...

 

The thing that was mentioned in this thread previously that really nails it was the Simms comments on how offenses have figured out exactly where to go against our Defensive zone, and most of the time it's with the primary option so that pass is out fast. So, on those plays we have zero chance to get to the QB. And teams have been mixing in a screen or two as well that just kill us. These factors have murdered us on 3rd down. And if anyone wants a heart attack just go look at team Defense 3rd down efficiency this year, and especially in the last 3 games... Holy hellfire it's bad. Defense on skates is a great way to describe our 3rd down D... It's brutal...

 

The good news is I really believe this years team is the best chance we have yet to score 40 points in 3 straight games in the Playoffs. And the D will turn it over a couple times to help. But otherwise I think we're cooked on that side of the ball... I've pretty much felt that way for a while now. Just don't want to be overtly negative all the time... 

[L Ron Burgundy]

21 hours ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

You spelled Sean wrong. Defense was ranked #1 and #2 in 2021 and 2022 under Leslie.

How'd they do in the playoffs?  That's all that matters.

[L Ron Burgundy]

6 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

I pretty much totally agree... I do however think their talent has been more on the average side, especially the past couple years and the depth has pretty much failed most tests. I've said before it's a coaching, scheme, talent combo crap-sandwich on Defense...

 

The thing that was mentioned in this thread previously that really nails it was the Simms comments on how offenses have figured out exactly where to go against our Defensive zone, and most of the time it's with the primary option so that pass is out fast. So, on those plays we have zero chance to get to the QB. And teams have been mixing in a screen or two as well that just kill us. These factors have murdered us on 3rd down. And if anyone wants a heart attack just go look at team Defense 3rd down efficiency this year, and especially in the last 3 games... Holy hellfire it's bad. Defense on skates is a great way to describe our 3rd down D... It's brutal...

 

The good news is I really believe this years team is the best chance we have yet to score 40 points in 3 straight games in the Playoffs. And the D will turn it over a couple times to help. But otherwise I think we're cooked on that side of the ball... I've pretty much felt that way for a while now. Just don't want to be overtly negative all the time... 

I'm almost at the point of thinking our def should just go for all out aggression looking for turnovers/sacks.  We're not going to stop teams otherwise.   We give up a big play?  So what, higher chance for a turnover is worth it.  Lots of blitzes trying to force errors all day.

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, JimmyNoodles said:

Basically agree with all of this. The only way this defense works is with a dominant front 4, but then pretty much any philosophy works with a dominant front 4.  This D cannot impose their will against any good offense.  They need to blitz to try and stop teams which carries a lot of risk and they don’t seem to get home a lot.  The strategy in the playoffs should be more stunting up front and hopefully more effective blitz strategies. But ultimately, like you said, it’s on Josh to outscore teams. 

 

This.

 

We are not built to shut down any kind of a balanced offense with a good run game. Outside of turnovers our defensive stats are middle of the pack or worse.

 

Our hope this season is to do some great scripting on both sides to start the game depending on how that initial possession plays out 

 

We have to get stops on those early possessions and give our offense the chance to get the early score and then we have a better shot maintaining a lead till we can get them out of running the ball.

 

Or, if our offense is on the field first, Allen works within the structure and we roll down the field and take the early lead.

 

He went a bit yolo vs NE holding the ball longer and fishing for big plays down field and that did not work very well, we also had more uncharacteristic drops to be fair. Running game has been solid.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

[H2o]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, H2o said:

 

you didn't hear me say that.....