CJ Stroud's uncontrollable crying.....

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

I say leave the kid alone. bunch of hard asses. 

 

pat yourself on the back for this thread, OP.

 

 

 

[finn]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Men have no choice but to be part of a warrior class in a society. Regardless of the culture. 

 

It's not a choice. It's an existential necessity.

 

If not, that ppl won't exist anymore. 

 

Don't confuse modernity with existential truths... Do we enjoy more comfort now, better technology? Sure. 

 

It doesn't change basic human nature and power dynamics at work. 

 

If you show weakness, human beings will generally take advantage or exploit them. ( It's happening in this thread right now, ppl are asking new questions about Stroud and his leadership etc)....This will always happen among ppl in your group and ppl who are your enemies. 

 

Look at all the discussions about Caleb Williams and his body language last week.... It matters. Go rewatch the sopranos, my favorite show ever. Tony soprano noticed a certain disrespect among his crew. He knew at that point it was impossible to trust him. This aspect of human nature is not something we can move past. It's part of life and the human condition 

 

This is why we love sports and football so much. It's symbolic of life and many lessons can be drawn from football.

 

Strategically and in philosophy. 

 

 

Right, but I'm disputing the premise that crying = weakness. In fact, I would go further: Show me a manly man who can't or won't cry in public and I'll show you a weak man, or at least a man who still has room to be stronger. If he agrees, he's halfway there. 

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

There's nothing wrong with that at all.

But I bet he's never done it in the middle of a game.

I'll ask him. He blew his knee out in one game, ending his football career. I won't be surprised if he cried then--and that his teammates didn't think anything less of him for it. 

[BigDingus]

14 hours ago, Special K said:

 

 

Are you both telling me that you would be crying like that on National TV in that situation??

 

I think its perfectly normal to be upset...I would be...but his reaction was too much for a grown man who is Captain of his team.

 

Imagine still believing it's not "manly" for a man to show emotions... Oh wait, I'm sure emotions are approved, as long as you're showing the "right" emotions.

 

You know, like a choreographed dance routine in the endzone or getting in someone's face in anger, or flexing over a guy you just tackled. Now THAT is manly!

 

Football is just a game, but it's very manly to get amped up & angry. Violence is ok, but empathy & sadness? Pssssh... get that p***y stuff out of here! 🙄

[finn]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I feel like a dick agreeing with OP, yet here I am agreeing with OP. And others saying he needs to be the glue the team is built on.

 

I'm a wuss. I cry at weddings, I cry at movies. Heck, Ive even cried at commercials. But those are tears of joy/happiness/pride/love. I do not cry at work when the going gets tough. Especially when we are in the middle of a meeting, let alone a competitive game. Vulnerability is ok, but these guys are being paid a lot of money to not be vulnerable. I dunno. It's a complicated situation. I understand him, but dont think it's a good showing for someone in a leadership position. Being upset is one thing. Being inconsolable in the middle of your job is another.

 

 

I think that's a good point. If you're sobbing or otherwise out of commission when you're needed, that's hardly a show of strength. 

[Simon]

11 minutes ago, finn said:

I'll ask him. He blew his knee out in one game, ending his football career. I won't be surprised if he cried then--and that his teammates didn't think anything less of him for it. 

 

I could see that and would have no problem whatsoever with it.

But I don't see it as comparable to the Stroud scenario because your BiL was not expected to go back out on the field any minute and lead his team.

Having so little control over your emotions that it hurts your brothers in the middle of a game is the deal-breaker for me.

I don't see it as appreciably different from taking a couple 15 yrdrs because you were pissed off about a call and couldn't get over it.

 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, djp14150 said:

 

 

nobody wants to see something happen like that in a game.  It’s no different than Hamlin, Stungley, thiesman, and other big injuries 

 

 

One of those situations is much different than the others. You see a teammate not breathing with people pumping on his freaking chest and it’s a bit different.

[Kelly to Allen]

15 minutes ago, finn said:

Right, but I'm disputing the premise that crying = weakness. In fact, I would go further: Show me a manly man who can't or won't cry in public and I'll show you a weak man, or at least a man who still has room to be stronger. If he agrees, he's halfway there. 

I'll ask him. He blew his knee out in one game, ending his football career. I won't be surprised if he cried then--and that his teammates didn't think anything less of him for it. 

 

General Patton never cried. Ever.

 

And like Tom Hanks said, " there's no crying in baseball!!!"

 

In fact coach Ryan's should make CJ watch the movie

" Patton" from 1970. And I would make him watch the opening speech in that movie over and over again. 

 

I would also make Stroud watch Saving Private Ryan. 

 

Time for Stroud to be tough 

 

[Special K]

9 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Imagine still believing it's not "manly" for a man to show emotions... Oh wait, I'm sure emotions are approved, as long as you're showing the "right" emotions.

 

You know, like a choreographed dance routine in the endzone or getting in someone's face in anger, or flexing over a guy you just tackled. Now THAT is manly!

 

Football is just a game, but it's very manly to get amped up & angry. Violence is ok, but empathy & sadness? Pssssh... get that p***y stuff out of here! 🙄

 

As has been mentioned in the thread, not questioning his manliness for crying....questioning his leadership and maturity for the timing and extent of his outburst.

 

If he broke down and cried in the post game press conference, and was inconsolable then I would have no problem with it.

 

Crying or not crying doesn't determine your manliness, but crapping the bed because you can't get your emotions in check when you have a job to do as a QB and a Captain seems like a problem worth calling out.

[transient]

17 minutes ago, finn said:

I'll ask him. He blew his knee out in one game, ending his football career. I won't be surprised if he cried then--and that his teammates didn't think anything less of him for it. 

No shame in that. I imagine there's a lot of grief for the player in the moment.

 

I would be interested to know, though, his opinion of a situation where a teammate, hypothetically or in actuality, was crying so inconsolably in the moment because his injury that he had trouble finishing the game. 

 

It's a different scenario.

[Mister Defense]

Stroud has seemed a little on the feminine side to me, so I was not surprised at how emotional he became.

 

While it does show that the team is close, or some of the team, it also was not a great look for Stroud in this important game, at that vital time in the game.

 

Since Stroud repeatedly pointed to how much happier Diggs was now that he was in Houston I have less respect for him.  But I think he will become a great player if he loses the emotion to some degree, though I am rooting for him less.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

13 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I could see that and would have no problem whatsoever with it.

But I don't see it as comparable to the Stroud scenario because your BiL was not expected to go back out on the field any minute and lead his team.

Having so little control over your emotions that it hurts your brothers in the middle of a game is the deal-breaker for me.

I don't see it as appreciably different from taking a couple 15 yrdrs because you were pissed off about a call and couldn't get over it.

 

Exactly,  we're not asking CJ to not have concern over his friend.  But at no point was his life in jeopardy.  If you want to honor your teammate(s), regain your composure and lead your team.  He completely melted down emotionally and lost all focus.  And it reflected in the remainder of that contest.

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

General Patton never cried. Ever.

 

And like Tom Hanks said, " there's no crying in baseball!!!"

 

In fact coach Ryan's should make CJ watch the movie

" Patton" from 1970. And I would make him watch the opening speech in that movie over and over again. 

 

I would also make Stroud watch Saving Private Ryan. 

 

Time for Stroud to be tough 

 

 

I would just like to point out that the majority of the folks in this thread that didn't care for Stroud crying mid-game are probably more than happy to disassociate with the above nonsense.

 

And you're wrong about Patton.

He bawled his eyes out like a little baby multiple times when Ike chewed his dumb ass out.

 

[finn]

23 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I could see that and would have no problem whatsoever with it.

But I don't see it as comparable to the Stroud scenario because your BiL was not expected to go back out on the field any minute and lead his team.

Having so little control over your emotions that it hurts your brothers in the middle of a game is the deal-breaker for me.

I don't see it as appreciably different from taking a couple 15 yrdrs because you were pissed off about a call and couldn't get over it.

 

Right, see reply above. It's one thing to be upset, even crying, and quite another to be an emotional wreck; we agree there.

 

The sad thing is that men teach their boys to never cry, ever, not realizing that the emotion doesn't just go away when suppressed. It manifests as confusion, frustration, rage, fear, shame, and leads to all sorts of problems for that kid as he grows up. Worst of all, his fear of being unmanly (not strong enough) will make him want to take out these emotions on weaker people, those he knows he can bully, like women and kids, especially boys. Anyone familiar with Little League will know what I'm talking about. 

Edited 4 hours ago by finn

[US Egg]

47 minutes ago, finn said:

The sad thing is that men teach their boys to never cry, ever, not realizing that the emotion doesn't just go away when suppressed. It manifests as confusion, frustration, rage, fear, shame, and leads to all sorts of problems for that kid as he grows up. Worst of all, his fear of being unmanly (not strong enough) will make him want to take out these emotions on weaker people, those he knows he can bully, like women and kids, especially boys. Anyone familiar with Little League will know what I'm talking about. 

Is this a worst case scenario, or can it get worse? I mean we talking Psycho Killer here?

 

Edited 3 hours ago by US Egg

[Sierra Foothills]

 

53 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

I say leave the kid alone. bunch of hard asses. 

 

pat yourself on the back for this thread, OP.

 

I don't object to the conversation at all.

 

For the most part there's been wise and considered takes.

 

Also this is a legitimate conversation and one that should be talked about.

 

There's always gonna be some misbehavior but many good points have been made by many good posters.

 

18 minutes ago, Special K said:

As has been mentioned in the thread, not questioning his manliness for crying....questioning his leadership and maturity for the timing and extent of his outburst.

 

If he broke down and cried in the post game press conference, and was inconsolable then I would have no problem with it.

 

Crying or not crying doesn't determine your manliness, but crapping the bed because you can't get your emotions in check when you have a job to do as a QB and a Captain seems like a problem worth calling out.

 

 

To the bolded, EXACTLY.  A salient point in this conversation is the "statute or limitations" with Stroud's loss of composure.

 

I think many of the people who are criticizing him are thinking that at some point (sooner than it happened) Stroud has to shake it off, flip the switch, and get his head straight.

 

It seems like that never happened.

 

And again I apportion some blame to DeMeco Ryans. It seems like there was a big team-wide leadership void after the injury.

 

2 hours ago, zow2 said:

Is the Stroud crying a thing nationally? or only here?  I think it’s fairly public that he and Tank Dell are best friends. and to see his friend go through a fractured fibula last year, to a gunshot in the offseason, to a terrible knee injury. I guess he couldn’t hold it together after all those thoughts in his head. 

 

It's definitely a national conversation... Bills fans aren't THAT different from other fan bases.

 

21 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

General Patton never cried. Ever.

 

And like Tom Hanks said, " there's no crying in baseball!!!"

 

In fact coach Ryan's should make CJ watch the movie

" Patton" from 1970. And I would make him watch the opening speech in that movie over and over again. 

 

I would also make Stroud watch Saving Private Ryan. 

 

Time for Stroud to be tough 

 

I remember watching High Noon and wondering when Gary Cooper was gonna finally break down.

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Sierra Foothills

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

 

To the bolded, EXACTLY.  A salient point in this conversation is the "statute or limitations" with Stroud's loss of composure.

 

I think many of the people who are criticizing him are thinking that at some point (sooner than it happened) Stroud has to shake it off, flip the switch, and get his head straight.

 

It seems like that never happened.

 

And again I apportion some blame to DeMeco Ryans. It seems like there was a big team-wide leadership void after the injury.

 

 

It's definitely a national conversation... Bills fans aren't THAT different from other fan bases.

 

And I don't object to the conversation at all.

 

For the most part there's been wise and considered takes.

 

There's always gonna be some misbehavior but many good points have been made by many good posters.

 

 

I remember watching High Noon and wondering when Gary Cooper was gonna finally break down.

 

 

 

 

 

Yup. Gary Cooper, the strong silent type 

[colin]

I mean, he's a zoomer and a sensitive guy, and that's fine, but it's also fine to make fun of him balling on TV.

 

These guys are out there getting cte and liley going bankrupt after their playing days are over, it's not that much to laugh at them crying.

[transient]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Curious. Did you ever have your close friends leg do that in the middle of a meeting? 

 

54 minutes ago, Nitro said:

What is wrong with you?  I will assume that you have never seen a horrific injury up close.  He was obviously upset at seeing a teammate and friend with a severe injury.  There is nothing wrong with him showing emotions.  This is not like my generation where showing feelings was frowned upon.  

So you would expect Stroud's reaction to be the norm for an NFL player at seeing a gruesome injury? There were, what, 80+ people on the sideline... teammates, coaching staff, trainers, etc... all of whom were also close to Dell who were not reacting in kind. There's nothing wrong with showing emotion, but it's legitimate to question Stroud's reaction if it limited his ability to finish the game and lead the team. Like it or not, he finds himself in a position that requires him to demonstrate the ability to overcome adversity and move on. As callous as it may seem, this is one of those situations. It has nothing to do with manliness. It has everything to do with being paid millions of dollars to play a contact sport in which gruesome injuries are not uncommon.

[AkwiredTste]

Can you imagine rolling into Iwo Jima and yelling at the troops..."hey hold up guys..Sarge needs a moment"

I get it, dude got into his feels, but c'mon

[Sierra Foothills]

The US Military has a phrase... "Fit for Command."

 

Even in a non-military, civilian culture, high-level leaders have a professional imperative.

 

In fact I would imagine that there are many people in this very conversation who have professional positions where "falling to pieces" is simply not an option.

 

Even as a head of household in the midst of an emergency/tragedy you cannot lose your mind.