Where would Jim Kelly in his prime rank amongst todays QBs?

[Dubie54]

On 12/17/2024 at 3:24 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

1. Allen

2. Mahomes 

3. Burrow

4. Herbert

5. Jackson

6. Stafford

7. Wilson

8. Kelly

 

I loathe interceptions. I have Kelly 8th. Kelly threw 175 INTs in 11 seasons compared to 237 TDs. Russell Wilson has 109 INT in 13 seasons. Stafford has 187 INT but in 16 seasons and a near 2:1 TD/INT ratio and far far more yards

 

Rodgers in his prime but not now

Tua is more accurate but Kelly was better QB

Dak is more prolific but Kelly was still better

Jayden Daniels is amazing but not quite there yet...

Purdy is a system guy. 

Never liked Kirk Cousins

 

Baker is an interesting comparison. Both gunslingers. Both threw a lot of INTs. Kelly had more success with better teams. Kelly is still better but when Baker is on he is very good. 

Great post. I have always had an issue with his int. % and overall accuracy. Out of his 11 years, he only had 4 years above 60% completions. 
Obviously there are a lot of intangibles when it comes to looking at the impact JK had on the Bills and Buffalo and he is without question a much beloved a Bill. 
But the game has changed considerably from his days and I don’t think in todays NFL with numbers he put up and his overall lack of mobility he doesn’t come close to the top tier QBs in the league. 

[WNYFAN1]

On 12/17/2024 at 6:05 PM, T.E. said:

The other side of that is he would have the benefit of not getting the daylights knocked out of him every game due to rules about hitting the QB, and his wideouts would be able to run much more freely than they did in the 90s.

100%

 

Today's QBs would get absolutely destroyed in the 90s if they did some of the things they get away with today. Different eras and very hard to compare

[oldmanfan]

Behind Josh and Mahomes but ahead of Lamar and Burrow.

[TheFunPolice]

18 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I guess the way that I view cross-generational comparisons are with people at their peaks (assuming that it isn’t a Linsanity like timeframe). Lamar at his best, is well ahead of Kelly at his best. He’s won 2 MVPs (1 was soft but if he won this year it would be legit). There was never a time that Kelly was at that level compared to the league. He once finished 2nd & once 5th. Both times, a member of his own team finished ahead of him.

 

Kelly was a great player. We just remember him better than he was. He was more like a Goff/Hurts than an Allen/Lamar.

 

To me, it's also a philosophical exercise: those players from the past that we know and loved as fans of the game would also not be the same people had they entered the league 5-6 years ago. We're all people of our time. We grow up in certain systems, learn them, master them to whatever degree, do our best to grow and change with the world, but one day we sort of fall behind the new trends and the next generation takes over with their own ways. It's the human condition. 

 

Would Terry Bradshaw have 4 SB rings in today's game? 

 

Future generations should always be more advanced, or they are doing something wrong. They get to start where the previous generation left off. 

 

What ifs are a lot of fun to ponder, and work lots of ways. 

 

What if Tom Brady was drafted by the dysfunctional 2000 Browns and forced to play immediately on the worst offense in the league and with Chris Palmer as his HC and a mess of a QB controversy between him and Doug Pederson?

 

No sitting behind and learning from an established guy in Bledsoe in NE, learning from one of the GOAT HCs with a solid staff, and preparing. Just in. On the Browns, who were horrific. It likely goes very badly for him, and based on his draft stock he wastes a few years on that roster then washes out of the league. 

 

What if Barry Sanders was the 90's Cowboys RB? IMO he ahs 3 SB rings and the all time rushing records and is seen as the GOAT at RB. 

 

To the point of this thread, what if Jim Kelly was the 90's Cowboys QB? Does he have 3 SB rings and is he in rare company in NFL history? 

 

OR... what if those 90's Bills teams came along just a few years later than they did. 

 

Instead of the 90's super teams like the Redskins and Cowboys they play the Carolina Panthers and Delhomme or McNabb's Eagles or even the Warner Rams teams. 

 

I think I would pick the 90's Bills in those matchups. Now that team has 3 SB rings and they are a dynasty, and this question is crazy. 

 

Just so many unknowns, although it's fun to ponder and discuss! 

Edited December 19 by TheFunPolice

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No, actually I'm not.   Not sure how that is your conclusion of from what I have been posting.

 

But anyway, the topic is whether Kelly is a top 5 if he was playing today.  The three other guys I mentioned could be--based on their stats while they were contemporaries with Kelly, who's team did not run as much of the Offense through him. 

 

 

 

 

It is yes.  And yes the rules favor the passing game more now for sure.  But even in his prime, there were much better passers in the league than Kelly>  I've mentioned them as the only likely guys from that era that would be top 5 today.

 

What is Kelly better at than Burrow?  We hear over and over how much tougher QBs had it back then---yet every season we see starters getting lit up and knocked out of games, missing games, IR, countless backups getting starts.  Because of so many more dropbacks they take compared to 30 years ago, QBs today take a lot more hits.

 

 

 

I didn't miss those at all--in fact, it makes my point.  Kelly was surrounded by HOFers.  So they won a ton of games with modest passing numbers.  Imagine those Bills with that Defense, Thurman....and Marino behind Center.  At least 1 Lombardy would be in the Bills trophy cabinet.

Just cuz there was better quarterbacks than Kelly back in the day doesn't mean  Kelly isn't a freak.. I would take Dan Marino and John elway over Patrick mahomes 

[Doc Brown]

I'd pry put him 7th behind Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Jackson, Stafford, and Herbert.  

[RyanC883]

I'd say 2, behind Allen.  

[May Day 10]

Quarterbacks today are superhuman compared to Jimbo's day.  He would be in the lower half of the league, if that.  Elway may be the only guy from his era who would have the skill-set to translate to modern-day.

 

[dave mcbride]

On 12/18/2024 at 12:44 AM, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Kelly routinely outdueled other HOF QB’s from his era—and he most certainly had the arm—he threw it just shy of 80 yards (78) deep at his pro day after having rehabbed from a devastating college injury at the U, prompting Don Shula to leave on the spot and comment, “I’ve seen enough, the kid can throw” (Armed & Dangerous by JK & Vic Carucci); I would encourage some more visits to the YouTube archives circa ‘88-‘93 before spouting off too much about supposed deficiencies in his overall abilities! Also fun to watch would be any USFL Gamblers Kelly footage—that’s like watching Josh Allen going to town today…

https://youtu.be/3EtVk0Cixjw?feature=shared

 

Kelly ruptured his bursa sac in his throwing arm late in the 1992 regular season and was never the same after that, arm strength-wise. Before that, he had a gun.

 

As for lack of mobility, that is true late in his career, but not early on. He went to Miami because Penn State recruited him to play linebacker and he wanted to play qb.

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, Dubie54 said:

Great post. I have always had an issue with his int. % and overall accuracy. Out of his 11 years, he only had 4 years above 60% completions. 
Obviously there are a lot of intangibles when it comes to looking at the impact JK had on the Bills and Buffalo and he is without question a much beloved a Bill. 
But the game has changed considerably from his days and I don’t think in todays NFL with numbers he put up and his overall lack of mobility he doesn’t come close to the top tier QBs in the league. 

You simply can’t compare. What I recommend is looking at his Rate+ and Cmp+ stats, where 100 is average. He was literally above average in rate+ every year of his career except for his very bad final season, when he was a shell of himself due to accumulated injuries and some hard living.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KellJi00.htm Hardly any qbs had the sorts of completion percentages back then compared to what you see today. He was above average — and sometimes well above average — in completion percentage every year except 1995.

[hondo in seattle]

14 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

You simply can’t compare. What I recommend is looking at his Rate+ and Cmp+ stats, where 100 is average. He was literally above average in rate+ every year of his career except for his very bad final season, when he was a shell of himself due to accumulated injuries and some hard living.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KellJi00.htm Hardly any qbs had the sorts of completion percentages back then compared to what you see today. He was above average — and sometimes well above average — in completion percentage every year except 1995.

His stats were very good for his time despite playing in the swirling winds of Rich Stadium.   QBs tend to be more mobile now but their better stats has more to do with rule and scheme changes than increased talent.

[NoSaint]

On 12/17/2024 at 5:05 PM, T.E. said:

The other side of that is he would have the benefit of not getting the daylights knocked out of him every game due to rules about hitting the QB, and his wideouts would be able to run much more freely than they did in the 90s.

and he’d get better training so you might see him moving around a little better 

 

that said, without putting pen to paper likely behind the elite but ahead of the pretenders