Where would Jim Kelly in his prime rank amongst todays QBs?

[Southern Bills Fan]

I just came here to LOL at the person saying Kelly didn't have a strong arm. You have obviously never seen him play or watched any highlights.

[TheFunPolice]

#3 behind Allen and Mahomes 

 

Toughness, leadership, grit, and the ability to put up big #'s 

 

Plus not getting assaulted on every play by DL 5 seconds after the throw would help with injuries. 

 

Can't put Burrow ahead of him, because Burrow is always injured in today's game. If he played in the 90's he wouldn't last 2 games. Guys like Kelly and Marino would play to 45 under today's rules. 

Edited December 18 by TheFunPolice

[CaseyatBat]

10 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

and too bad he couldn't run a better 2 minute drill in Super Bowl XXV or we would have won it. As much people credit Kelly far too many don't criticize him for playing below average in all 4 Super Bowls. 

I’ll give ya the Giants game, but every other game he would’ve had to put up 40 (or 53) to win. Those were on the defense

 

besides clearly if the kicker makes it he wins the Giants game anyway

 

10 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

10 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Edited December 18 by CaseyatBat

[TheFunPolice]

Montana is another one who would play to 45 if his entire career was under today's rules. 

 

You go back and watch old film from the 80's and 90's and it looks like a different game. guys would be suspended for weeks for what were routine defensive plays. 

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, CaseyatBat said:

I’ll give ya the Giants game, but every other game he would’ve had to put up 40 (or 53) to win. Those were on the defense

 

besides clearly if the kicker makes it he wins the Giants game anyway

 

I’ll give ya the Giants game, but every other game he would’ve had to put up 40 (or 53) to win. Those were on the defense

 

besides clearly if the kicker makes it he wins the Giants game anyway

 

I’ll give ya the Giants game, but every other game he would’ve had to put up 40 (or 53) to win. Those were on the defense

 

besides clearly if the kicker makes it he wins the Giants game anyway

 

4 interceptions on the loss to the Redskins, first game against Dallas he had 2 interceptions on 7 pass attempts and don't get me started on second one against Dallas that we had to settle on a field goal just before the half when had we scored a TD we go up 11 vs 7 so Thurman's fumble doesn't change all the momentum. 

 

In terms of Super Bowl XXV. Kelly/Marv left 9 seconds on the clock for that missed FG and Norwood struggled on grass all season, even before he attempted it most knew was little chance he'd make it, I'm surprised how close he came to making in TBH. 

Edited December 18 by The Jokeman

[416BillsFan]

The thought of a Jim Kelly born in 1990 navigating fame in the age of social media is....interesting.

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

#3 behind Allen and Mahomes 

 

Toughness, leadership, grit, and the ability to put up big #'s 

 

Plus not getting assaulted on every play by DL 5 seconds after the throw would help with injuries. 

 

Can't put Burrow ahead of him, because Burrow is always injured in today's game. If he played in the 90's he wouldn't last 2 games. Guys like Kelly and Marino would play to 45 under today's rules. 

I’m struggling with how anyone could argue that he was more impactful than Lamar? 

[Simon]

1 hour ago, CaseyatBat said:

Allen runs to the sideline, jumps in the air and launches it across his body downfield. 

 

...where it typically then proceeds to hit a receiver right in the facemask still doing 50 mph.

 

1 hour ago, CaseyatBat said:

That is not smart, you know that.

 

The reason you think it's not smart is because you've never before seen anybody able to do it so consistently and successfully. Ever.

He's easily one of the smartest QBs in the NFL and there is a valid argument to be made that he is actually the smartest.

The guy is in as much control of the field as you will ever see a QB, is racking up near perfect games at a Nolan Ryan pace and has become the undeniable best in the world by becoming smarter as well as more talented than everybody else. And you're going to start popping off about how he's not a smart QB?

That is literally one of the absolute stupidest things that has ever been said in my 20+ years here.

So stupid that almost everybody that read it now believes you're a troll just begging for attention.

If you're going to keep tossing out inflammatory nonsense, I don't want to hear you crying anymore about how you can't have an opinion.

 

[Mr. WEO]

He had 2 seasons of 3500+ yards.  He was top 10 in yardage 6 times in 11 seasons (3 times top 5). He was top 10 in pick 6 six times (#1 in 3 different seasons).  7 seasons under 60% completed.  He  passed for more than 25 TDs once. 

 

today, he would be 20+ in a list of QBs.  there are few QBs back then who would be close to top 5 today.  Obviously Marino, Fouts.  Maybe  Moon.

Edited December 18 by Mr. WEO

[colin]

guys like kelly would be marginal in the nfl today compared to their talent if the were out boozing and taking summers off, and it reflected in their play back then too.  if they were more dedicated to fitness, diet, breaking down film, all of that the true super stars of yesteryear would be super stars today, and i think kelly would be one of those.

 

to me the real example of the transition was Terrell Owens and Drew Bledsoe/Tom Brady.  Brady had more talent than his 6th round pick status for sure, and he was a late late bloomer, but drew had way more talent.  Drew just wasn't a gym rat of a film junkie.  he'd do what he was told, do the mandatory workouts, go to the meetings, and then just be himself in the offseason and on days off.  brady was addicted to working out and the film room, and was in the coach's ear all the time to get more information and improve.  they kept him because his whole being was pro football.  drew was blessed from the day he was born to be a great nfl qb, but he did what was asked of him and not more.  TO was a total workout warrior, and stuck to the diets that the coaches had for the players.  he never got out of shape and after breaking his flipping leg in the middle of the season, came back and was the best player in the super bowl that they shoulda won over the pats.

 

The norm now is way more dedication, and these players have been coached up and filmed and trained from a young age.  kelly was gassing beers in high school and didn't go to his local penn st cuz they wanted him to be an LB.  the bills of those days were known to party and show up to games half in the tank.  if he adapted to the modern nfl life he'd be a modern great.

[CaseyatBat]

57 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

...where it typically then proceeds to hit a receiver right in the facemask still doing 50 mph.

 

 

The reason you think it's not smart is because you've never before seen anybody able to do it so consistently and successfully. Ever.

He's easily one of the smartest QBs in the NFL and there is a valid argument to be made that he is actually the smartest.

The guy is in as much control of the field as you will ever see a QB, is racking up near perfect games at a Nolan Ryan pace and has become the undeniable best in the world by becoming smarter as well as more talented than everybody else. And you're going to start popping off about how he's not a smart QB?

That is literally one of the absolute stupidest things that has ever been said in my 20+ years here.

So stupid that almost everybody that read it now believes you're a troll just begging for attention.

If you're going to keep tossing out inflammatory nonsense, I don't want to hear you crying anymore about how you can't have an opinion.

 

 

yes hes amazing in every way, nothing to critique his game at all, ever. "perfect" is a good word to describe him as you mention. 

 

maybe he can date our daughters

 

 

Edited December 18 by CaseyatBat

[hondo in seattle]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

He had 2 seasons of 3500+ yards.  He was top 10 in yardage 6 times in 11 seasons (3 times top 5). He was top 10 in pick 6 six times (#1 in 3 different seasons).  7 seasons under 60% completed.  He  passed for more than 25 TDs once. 

 

today, he would be 20+ in a list of QBs.  there are few QBs back then who would be close to top 5 today.  Obviously Marino, Fouts.  Maybe  Moon.

 

Rules, defensive schemes, offensive schemes... were all different back then.

If you look at a list of the top twenty most total TDs, they're all newer guys.  No Otto Grahams or Johnny Unitases.   It's just a different game now: more games in a season, more rules to protect the QB, rules that make blocking easier, rules that allow receivers to run free, etc.  

 

Interestingly, the oldest guys in the Top Twenty of total TDs are Marino and Kelly.  Kelly was a scoring machine in his time.  Not quite as strong-armed as Josh but probably more accurate and just as tough.  None of the leg talent though.  

 

Kelly would be top five in today's game with today's rules and schemes.  

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, CaseyatBat said:

 

yes hes amazing in every way, nothing to critique his game at all, ever. "perfect" is a good word to describe him as you mention. 

 

maybe he can date our daughters

 

 

 

troll indeed

[Kelly to Allen]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

4 interceptions on the loss to the Redskins, first game against Dallas he had 2 interceptions on 7 pass attempts and don't get me started on second one against Dallas that we had to settle on a field goal just before the half when had we scored a TD we go up 11 vs 7 so Thurman's fumble doesn't change all the momentum. 

 

In terms of Super Bowl XXV. Kelly/Marv left 9 seconds on the clock for that missed FG and Norwood struggled on grass all season, even before he attempted it most knew was little chance he'd make it, I'm surprised how close he came to making in TBH. 

 

The 91 Washington team might be the greatest NFL team ever 

 

The 92-93 Dallas Cowboys were top 4-5 all time rosters ever. 

 

That 91 Washington team was better than the 07 Patriots. Ppl for whatever reason don't look at them with reverence or mention them 

 

 

25 minutes ago, colin said:

guys like kelly would be marginal in the nfl today compared to their talent if the were out boozing and taking summers off, and it reflected in their play back then too.  if they were more dedicated to fitness, diet, breaking down film, all of that the true super stars of yesteryear would be super stars today, and i think kelly would be one of those.

 

to me the real example of the transition was Terrell Owens and Drew Bledsoe/Tom Brady.  Brady had more talent than his 6th round pick status for sure, and he was a late late bloomer, but drew had way more talent.  Drew just wasn't a gym rat of a film junkie.  he'd do what he was told, do the mandatory workouts, go to the meetings, and then just be himself in the offseason and on days off.  brady was addicted to working out and the film room, and was in the coach's ear all the time to get more information and improve.  they kept him because his whole being was pro football.  drew was blessed from the day he was born to be a great nfl qb, but he did what was asked of him and not more.  TO was a total workout warrior, and stuck to the diets that the coaches had for the players.  he never got out of shape and after breaking his flipping leg in the middle of the season, came back and was the best player in the super bowl that they shoulda won over the pats.

 

The norm now is way more dedication, and these players have been coached up and filmed and trained from a young age.  kelly was gassing beers in high school and didn't go to his local penn st cuz they wanted him to be an LB.  the bills of those days were known to party and show up to games half in the tank.  if he adapted to the modern nfl life he'd be a modern great.

 

 

Allen and Mahomes golf all off-season and drink beer 

 

Allen said this was his first off-season where he was a little more disciplined in workouts, diet etc

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I think what people often miss with these inter generational comparisons is that a prime Jim Kelly today would also be able to take advantage of all the modern stuff.  Rules that favor the QB, better coaching (from childhood on), better tape, the physical science of athletics improving his arm strength, accuracy and even foot speed.  
 

This always comes up in baseball.  “Babe Ruth couldn’t hit a slider.”  Well, maybe he would have figured it out if it existed.

[The Jokeman]

49 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

The 91 Washington team might be the greatest NFL team ever 

 

The 92-93 Dallas Cowboys were top 4-5 all time rosters ever. 

 

That 91 Washington team was better than the 07 Patriots. Ppl for whatever reason don't look at them with reverence or mention them 

 

I agree that Redskins might have been one of the most complete teams ever, I think they don't get accolades as Mark Rypien wasn't a great QB for most of his career. The Cowboys had talent but they were beatable in that second Super Bowl IMO. 

Edited December 18 by The Jokeman

[Matt_In_NH]

Jim Kelly started his college career in the 1970's.....point is the game has changed so much over the several decades since he was in the NFL and it is just not fair or easy to compare generations like this.  Kelly was a  competitor, a leader but skill set wise, I wonder where he woudl fit in if he just showed up on the scene today.

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

I agree that Redskins might have been one of the most complete teams ever, I think they don't get accolades as Mark Rypien was a one year wonder. The Cowboys had talent but they were beatable in that second Super Bowl IMO. 

I mean I like to tell myself that, but we got completely destroyed in the trenches in that game. Especially in the second half. 

 

Kelly was trying to mitigate their dline by getting the ball out quick. We were also trying to use their overwhelming defensive front against them on screens, counters, trap blocks etc...

 

But at a certain point we're just getting manhandled. 

 

Sometimes the other team is just way better. 

 

I agree if we played perfect no turnovers maybe we beat them in the last super bowl. But IDK. 

 

That oline crushed my soul on that long TD drive. Emmitt had like 8 straight runs. It was embarrassing 

 

I think Kevin Gogan broke Phil Hansens leg on a down block. 

 

But on a positive note, that's what is different about this bills team. It's very very physical. Especially on the oline

[GerstAusGosheim]

Imagine Dan Marino in today's game. Even more of a statue than Jimbo but lightning fast arm and accuracy. 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Kelly to Allen said:

I mean I like to tell myself that, but we got completely destroyed in the trenches in that game. Especially in the second half. 

 

Kelly was trying to mitigate their dline by getting the ball out quick. We were also trying to use their overwhelming defensive front against them on screens, counters, trap blocks etc...

 

But at a certain point we're just getting manhandled. 

 

Sometimes the other team is just way better. 

 

I agree if we played perfect no turnovers maybe we beat them in the last super bowl. But IDK. 

 

That oline crushed my soul on that long TD drive. Emmitt had like 8 straight runs. It was embarrassing 

 

I think Kevin Gogan broke Phil Hansens leg on a down block. 

 

But on a positive note, that's what is different about this bills team. It's very very physical. Especially on the oline

Yeah offensive line great at run blocking and good enough at pass blocking that Josh can maneuver the pocket enough and avoid taking unnecessary sacks