Where would Jim Kelly in his prime rank amongst todays QBs?

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, ghostwriter said:

Some of them can though.

 

Really?   How can you possibly know that with any kind of impartiality?  Statistics, which we use so extensively to measure QB performance, won't work because of the differences in the game. 

[gordong]

5 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

You are delusional if you think Jim Kelly would be a good QB today.  His arm strength would be below average. His athleticism would be even worse.

 

Yes, he was tough and smart.  But I’ve re-watched at least 50 of his old games and he’d be getting killed against todays athletes and defensive schemes

I stopped reading when you said arm strength was below avg...   you are delusional if you really think that. he had one of the top arm in the NFL for years. 

Edited December 18 by gordong

[ghostwriter]

10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Really?   How can you possibly know that with any kind of impartiality?  Statistics, which we use so extensively to measure QB performance, won't work because of the differences in the game. 

It’s just a numbers game. By default there would be a few players who slip through any which way. Kelly, Marino, Elway could probably play today, I’m sure there’s others too.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Kelly routinely outdueled other HOF QB’s from his era—and he most certainly had the arm—he threw it just shy of 80 yards (78) deep at his pro day after having rehabbed from a devastating college injury at the U, prompting Don Shula to leave on the spot and comment, “I’ve seen enough, the kid can throw” (Armed & Dangerous by JK & Vic Carucci); I would encourage some more visits to the YouTube archives circa ‘88-‘93 before spouting off too much about supposed deficiencies in his overall abilities! Also fun to watch would be any USFL Gamblers Kelly footage—that’s like watching Josh Allen going to town today…

https://youtu.be/3EtVk0Cixjw?feature=shared

 

Edited December 18 by NoHuddleKelly12

[pennstate10]

It’s basically impossible to answer this question, because we have little in the way of quantitative comparisons between football decades.  

 

But time is the same in 2024/as in 1990s. 
 

It is absolutely and quantitatively true that athletes of 2024 are better than those of the 1990s. 
 

The gold medal winner in the 100m ran 9.96 in 1992. The 8th place finisher ran 9.91 in 2024.  
 

So yeah, I think that Kelly would be an average at best nfl QB today. 
 

And Babe Ruth wouldn’t even crack a major league roster today. 
 

 

[That's No Moon]

7 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Behind Allen, Mahomes, and probably Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. So maybe 5th.

 

If you look at those 4 names the biggest difference is mobility. The league has changed and Jimbo didn't have the wheels or pocket quickness of those guys because it wasn't valued back then.  But he'd still have the head, arm, and leadership qualities to be a top guy. 

He did have some when he was younger though and he'd get hit a lot less in the modern game and not have guy going at his knees constantly so it's hard to say.  He's less mobile than most of the current top guys though.  He'd be like a Stafford IMO

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

It’s basically impossible to answer this question, because we have little in the way of quantitative comparisons between football decades.  

 

But time is the same in 2024/as in 1990s. 
 

It is absolutely and quantitatively true that athletes of 2024 are better than those of the 1990s. 
 

The gold medal winner in the 100m ran 9.96 in 1992. The 8th place finisher ran 9.91 in 2024.  
 

So yeah, I think that Kelly would be an average at best nfl QB today. 
 

And Babe Ruth wouldn’t even crack a major league roster today. 
 

 

But each athlete is also a product of their time to include the contemporary standards of preparation, nutrition, strength and conditioning—or lack thereof…Babe wouldn’t be drinking and smoking in the dugout, and Jim would probably be training more in the offseason and taking better care of his body, etc. Those types of changes would also translate to statistical improvements logically. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

7 hours ago, Neo said:

Another question.   Where would Allen rank in ‘90-‘92.  I’d take him over everyone.

He wouldn't survive in the league with those rules.   The defenses would go out of their way to hurt him

Edited December 18 by Dablitzkrieg

[MJS]

7 hours ago, CaseyatBat said:

Don’t really have anyone like him today, sadly as you young bucks don’t get to see pure QBing… I voted top 3 to the question 

 

last QB to play like him would be Peyton Manning in terms of field general style play. Rodgers with GB had some of that too.
 

I think Kelly had a better arm than Rodgers, but overall not as good as Manning, he falls in between them. 
 

Allen is a bigger Elway, if you want a comp to that era

Jim Kelly threw a beautiful ball, that's for sure. I remember admiring that as a young kid, and then later when we had other QBs I always wondered why they couldn't throw it like Jim Kelly.

[MJS]

7 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

1. Allen

2. Mahomes 

3. Burrow

4. Herbert

5. Jackson

6. Stafford

7. Wilson

8. Kelly

 

I loathe interceptions. I have Kelly 8th. Kelly threw 175 INTs in 11 seasons compared to 237 TDs. Russell Wilson has 109 INT in 13 seasons. Stafford has 187 INT but in 16 seasons and a near 2:1 TD/INT ratio and far far more yards

 

Rodgers in his prime but not now

Tua is more accurate but Kelly was better QB

Dak is more prolific but Kelly was still better

Jayden Daniels is amazing but not quite there yet...

Purdy is a system guy. 

Never liked Kirk Cousins

 

Baker is an interesting comparison. Both gunslingers. Both threw a lot of INTs. Kelly had more success with better teams. Kelly is still better but when Baker is on he is very good. 

He wouldn't throw as many today because offenses have changed. Back then it was about 5 step dropbacks and pushing the ball down the field. Defenders could also be much more physical with receivers. Put Kelly in a modern offense with modern dropbacks and shotgun and his turnovers would come way down.

[Sweats]

12 hours ago, CaseyatBat said:

Allen is pure greatness but he’s not a smart QB.
 

There is nothing smart about chucking up for grabs at the sideline X3 times a game. (Thank God  it works!)

 

 

 

 

Wow, these words are going to get you hurt in here, kid.

 

I wish you good luck and a speedy recovery.

[Kirby Jackson]

He’s definitely not top 3. He wasn’t top 3 when he played. I think anywhere from 4-12 is probably fine. He would be in the tier with Hurts, Goff, Stafford, Baker. Kelly was the steward of a great offense and a guy that you won a lot with. You win because of Allen, Jackson and Mahomes. The next tier has guys that can carry their teams but not every week. Its hard to compare eras but it feels like he would fall outside of the top tier and then it becomes personal preference. 

Edited December 18 by Kirby Jackson

[billsfan714]

If Goff can put up his stats, Kelly would do well in todays rules.   Kellys arm strength vastly superior to Goff.  Kelly didnt play in era of cant hit QB in the head, cant land with your weight on the QB, can ground ball out of the tackle box, cant go low on QB.   Kelly would do really well today.  When I look at a guy like Goff, I think he wouldn't of lasted 5 years in the 70s or 80s or 90s.

Edited December 18 by billsfan714

[CaseyatBat]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

Wow, these words are going to get you hurt in here, kid.

 

I wish you good luck and a speedy recovery.

yeah and I’m not sure why everyone gets so triggered. Opinions should be allowed here

[Sweats]

2 minutes ago, CaseyatBat said:

yeah and I’m not sure why everyone gets so triggered. Opinions should be allowed here

 

 

 

 

You must be new..........you'll learn 

[MarlinTheMagician]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

Against today’s QB’s today or todays QB’s in their primes?

 

For the first, i have these guys ahead of Kelly in no particular order:

 

Allen

Mahomes

Burrow

Lamar

Love

Stafford

Herbert

 

He would slot in right around 8-10 with Baker/Goff/Hurts.

I can understand this, but there is a good argument for #3 in that list.  Durability matters.

But I voted 4-7.

[Kelly to Allen]

Jim Kelly was awesome. And his career was shortened from the two years in the USFL and later because of a shoulder injury in college which made him retire at 36 instead of 38-39....

 

His numbers were also suppressed by being in a conservative offense until the 89 playoffs.

 

If Kelly never went to the USFL and was in a no huddle, wide open passing offense from the start, he absolutely would have put up insane Marino like numbers. 

 

His 1990 playoff, 89 playoff vs Cleveland and 1991 season where he almost got 40 passing touchdowns ( sat week 17) was Marino like. 

 

He was in his era no worse than a top 5 QB and had moments where he would make Steve Young or Marino look inferior. 

 

Kelly also ran like Allen a little bit in the 80s. The ultimate gunslinger 

 

Jim Kelly was the Terry Bradshaw of his time and Kelly had a slightly better deep ball than Allen. 

 

Go watch his USFL highlights, he had Ricky Sanders at wr. It was awesome 😎 

 

 

Edited December 18 by Kelly to Allen

[Johnny Bravo]

13 hours ago, amprov56 said:

No I'm not, but lets get back to reality, Moulds is not in the HOF! I'm not the delusional here, SB's not in the equation, I have facts you move on with emotion, go find a Doctor Phil!

Still not sure I even understand this post!

The only fact you keep bringing up is that Reed is in the HOF.   Using this logic do you also think Lamar is better than Josh because he has been voted MVP twice?  Or do you use your own eyes to form your own opinion about who the better player is?

 

Reed was awesome and deserves the HOF.  I watched both he and Moulds and think Moulds was the better of the two and would have been the best receiver in the league with better QBs throwing him the ball.

Edited December 18 by Johnny Bravo
Added a thought

[Simon]

28 minutes ago, CaseyatBat said:

yeah and I’m not sure why everyone gets so triggered. Opinions should be allowed here

 

They are, as is disagreeing with those opinions.

When you say something as patently stupid as "Allen is not a smart QB" while we're watching him see every inch of field and in total command of this offense, then you are going to get exactly what you deserve.

[Saint Doug]

I think Jimbo’s biggest attribute was his brain. The ability to call plays and basically run the offense himself. You shift and drop him into today’s NFL, he’d have problems. But if he developed into today’s NFL, he’d be better than Burrow.