Where would Jim Kelly in his prime rank amongst todays QBs?

[AkwiredTste]

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

Lets not act like Jim Kelly was a puny 1930's quarterback smoking cigarettes at halftime.   He was a 6'2 230 pound guy who could have played linebacker in the league.  Players dont get to choose what era they play in.   That argument should not diminish their greatness. 

 

 

I'm talking about the defenses...Let's not act like the training, nutrition etc now isn't head and shoulders above what it was then

[amprov56]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Lets not act like Jim Kelly was a puny 1930's quarterback smoking cigarettes at halftime.   He was a 6'2 230 pound guy who could have played linebacker in the league.  Players dont get to choose what era they play in.   That argument should not diminish their greatness. 

 

 

Great post, "tough as Kelly."

1 minute ago, AkwiredTste said:

I'm talking about the defenses...Let's not act like the training, nutrition etc now isn't head and shoulders above what it was then

Absolutely correct!

[BearNorth]

From Pro Football Reference

 

QB's ranked by Approximate Value per year played

 

Four of the top 10 are active today.

 

Jim Kelly is #15 with an AV average per year of 12.0, Marino is immediately ahead of him at #14.

 

Edited December 18 by BearNorth

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The only way to do an exercise of this type is to put it into the proper context. You have to consider-Was a guy the best of his time and by how much? Just using stats without context to how the game is different in each era is faulty. I tend to think that the best guys back when would be the best guys now. And vice versa.

1 minute ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

The only way to do an exercise of this type is to put it into the proper context. You have to consider-Was a guy the best of his time and by how much? Just using stats without context to how the game is different in each era is faulty. I tend to think that the best guys back when would be the best guys now. And vice versa.

Jim would be somewhere 4-7 and that's close to what he was in his era too.

[amprov56]

24 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

You think Reed would be in the HOF with Todd Collins, Jp Losman, and Doug Flutie???

 

You are living in nostalgia world. There is nothing wrong with that. 

 

We all loved the 1990s team. But let's remember these great players once won a AFC Championship game 10-7, and were noncompetitive in 3 of four SuperBowls.

You never let me down Ethan!

[RangerDave]

42 minutes ago, Another Fan said:

I think its just too different a game today from the 80s and 90s to really answer this.

 

Case in point Jim was a very vocal leader on the field.  Nobody today comes close in that regard.  

I think the fact that Kelly called many of his own plays while in the no-huddle adds some points to his score as well.  How many of today's QBs can or do call their own plays?  Shows what a field general he was.

[SoTier]

26 minutes ago, CaseyatBat said:

the game is easier for QBs today. If you watched back in the day you would know that 

 

I "watched back in the day", and your statement is simply untrue because of the differences in the game today and back in the 1990s simply make comparisons of the QBs of those two eras impossible.   Kelly was drafted in the great QB draft of 1983 (41 years ago) along with Elway and Marino.   Marino was the last of the QBs to retire, lasting until 1999.  That was 25 years ago.   The game today is much different today than it was in the 1990s just as the game in 1994 was light years different from how the game was played in the 1950s and 1960s.   What was/is valued -- and needed -- to be a great QB in the 1960s or the 1990s or the 2020s means that it's likely that few QBs could be successful if they were somehow transported to thirty years to the future or the past.

 

[amprov56]

3 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

I think the fact that Kelly called many of his own plays while in the no-huddle adds some points to his score as well.  How many of today's QBs can or do call their own plays?  Shows what a field general he was.

That matters nothing to many and it will never happem again! Ah the young, they just dont know, only statistics!

[JAMIEBUF12]

With todays rules Kelly would have played 7 more years easily.

with todays rules hof’ers Kelly,Marino,Elway,Montanna,Would have even better stats.

[ghostwriter]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I "watched back in the day", and your statement is simply untrue because of the differences in the game today and back in the 1990s simply make comparisons of the QBs of those two eras impossible.   Kelly was drafted in the great QB draft of 1983 (41 years ago) along with Elway and Marino.   Marino was the last of the QBs to retire, lasting until 1999.  That was 25 years ago.   The game today is much different today than it was in the 1990s just as the game in 1994 was light years different from how the game was played in the 1950s and 1960s.   What was/is valued -- and needed -- to be a great QB in the 1960s or the 1990s or the 2020s means that it's likely that few QBs could be successful if they were somehow transported to thirty years to the future or the past.

 

Some of them can though.

[Buddy Hix]

5-8

 

I loved his toughness but Jimbo is highly overrated. I wouldn’t even have him in the HOF. Take a look at his playoff numbers, just awful when it counted.

[BullBuchanan]

He'd be well outside the top 15 - perhaps a poor man's Kirk Cousins or maybe a better version of Derek Carr. No disrespect to Jimbo, but the game passed him by. He was far too reckless with the football and that kind of play will get you killed in today's game. He also had no athleticism and would eaten alive by today's defenses.

[Another Fan]

21 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

I think the fact that Kelly called many of his own plays while in the no-huddle adds some points to his score as well.  How many of today's QBs can or do call their own plays?  Shows what a field general he was.

That's why I'm not sure how well he would do as an offensive coordinator.  Especially in this league today where there's a much more sort of analytical/number approach/memorize all the plays versus react directly to what he saw on the field.  

[Big Turk]

No mobility would be his downfall today

42 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

From Pro Football Reference

 

QB's ranked by Approximate Value per year played

 

Four of the top 10 are active today.

 

Jim Kelly is #15 with an AV average per year of 12.0, Marino is immediately ahead of him at #14.

 

 

The numbers for the active players are off...

 

You included this year in the calculation but we don't have an AV value yet for this year, meaning you need to subtract one from the years.

 

So Allen would be 15.33 not 13.12

[Snappysnackcakes]

Hell, Jim would be kicking ass. Especially with modern training programs. Jim was pretty athletic is his time in the USFL and his game would’ve translated to today’s league. And probably better than Marino. But I’d sure love to see Teddy Marchibroda as an offensive mind with Allen, too. Oh well, maybe in the afterlife we’ll get to see things like this. 

[Brandon]

At his best,  in the middle of his career...top 5,  maybe top 3. 

 

 

[NoName]

It's just too hard to compare eras.  Kelly played with significantly better talent than Allen did.  The rules were different.  It's just too hard to compare. Athletes are much bigger, faster, coaches are better, schemes are most sophisticated.  I'd rather say Kelly was a Top 3-5 QB in his era.  Allen has been a Top 2-4 qb in his era. 

Edited December 18 by NoName
idk

[BearNorth]

38 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

No mobility would be his downfall today

 

The numbers for the active players are off...

 

You included this year in the calculation but we don't have an AV value yet for this year, meaning you need to subtract one from the years.

 

So Allen would be 15.33 not 13.12

That's correct and Mahomes, Russell, Josh, and Lamar would also have to be adjusted.  Of course then you have the 17 vs. 16 game season adjustment.  It was just an interesting factoid.

[RiotAct]

Jim Kelly with the full benefit of today’s training, technology, and nutrition regimens?  Top 5 or 6.

 

Jim Kelly put into a magical time machine to 2024?  19th - 25th-ish.

[Billsatlastin2018]

I saw EVERY game of Kelly’s Career Live/ TV… especially the Glory Years, his Playoffs and Super Bowls!

Kelly is ranked #34 All Time with 237 TD Passes and #32 in Passing Yards with 35,400.
 

A HOFer. NO stiff. Hell, #17 is still chasing his Billy’s records!

 

The game’s QBs today however, are built on agility, speed and quickness afoot combined with precise rocket arms and touch. Kelly lacked a lot of the first part. And it is also unfair to do these generational comparisons because the Jack Tatums of today aren’t generally looking to knock your head off or drive you into the first row!

 

They can’t!

 

Still, the following would be my list AHEAD of Jimbo if you must do this.
 

Allen

Mahomes

Burrow

Stafford 
Lamar

Love

Goff 

Herbert

 

And just remember, 2 of those Stafford (#10 in TD Passes) and Goff (#41- should he get the Lions to the SB) are going to Canton! At least, 3-5 others will as well, barring injury and one is too new.