THE ROCKPILE REVIEW – Detroit Goes Down

[LewPort71]

Great write up as always.  The sound on TV was loud.  My sister wears ear plugs when she goes to Ford Field. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Salty? No…. I was just reacting to the OPs comment that everyone on the team just ‘does their job’. I’m not sure whether it’s personnel, scheme, or both but I do know there are significant shortcomings with the D right now. 

Well, reading a bit of you and Muppy, I think she's on the right track. 

 

Was I disappointed in the defense on Sunday?  Well, sure, I was disappointed that those guys moved up and down the field at will in the second half, but then again, our offense moved up and down the field at will, too. 

 

I think the reality is that it's really hard, maybe impossible, to stop modern offenses all the time. The offenses are too varied. Now that the run game has come back to the NFL, you have to defend the pass and the run. 

 

As I think I said in the Review, other than Allen, the Bills have no stars. Nobody comes into a game with the Bills worrying about what to do about anyone on the Bills except Allen.  There is no LaMarr Chase, no Chris Jones, no Micah Parsons, no Saquon Barkley. The Bills are built that way intentionally. The Bills are built to be a team in the truest sense of the word, to operate together. It's like they're choreographed. And they are built to achieve a variety of goals, like scoring and stopping scoring. But because they're built that way, they aren't going to excel at stopping the best passing teams, like the Rams and the Lions, when they're passing, and they aren't going to excel at stopping the best running teams, like Baltimore, when they're running.  They ARE built to make it more difficult for those teams, and the Bills did make it difficult for the Rams, Lions, and Ravens.  They made it more difficult for the Chiefs. 

 

It's a good defense to win with. It may get overrun by some team in the playoffs, and then we'll say the defense needs to be better against whatever it was that smoked them, but to make it better that way makes it worse some other way. It's supposed to be balanced, to do as well as you can against everything. 

 

In addition, I think we forget, I know I forget, how good some of these guys are. Benford, for example. I continue to think of him as some young, unproven guy. No, he's a stud. He is really good.  And Bernard.  And Johnson. And Oliver. (I said in a different thread that Dan Campbell raved about Oliver, saying the Lions would double him regularly. If you don't double him, he wrecks the interior. That's what Campbell said.)  

 

It's hard to win in the NFL. And it often looks messy. 

 

If the Pats put up 40, I'll start to worry. I doubt that's happening.

[Cash]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think the reality is that it's really hard, maybe impossible, to stop modern offenses all the time. The offenses are too varied. Now that the run game has come back to the NFL, you have to defend the pass and the run.

 

Especially in a dome, where there's nothing to interfere with the precision of the offense.  Even in good weather, outdoor football always has some level of breeze to deal with.  To say nothing of the conditions in the 49ers game.  Personally, I like football better when it's harder, and even an elite offense can't score every time.

 

(Just another reason why the "perfect game" against Belichick in the playoffs was truly one of the most impressive feats in NFL history.)

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, reading a bit of you and Muppy, I think she's on the right track. 

 

Was I disappointed in the defense on Sunday?  Well, sure, I was disappointed that those guys moved up and down the field at will in the second half, but then again, our offense moved up and down the field at will, too. 

 

I think the reality is that it's really hard, maybe impossible, to stop modern offenses all the time. The offenses are too varied. Now that the run game has come back to the NFL, you have to defend the pass and the run. 

 

As I think I said in the Review, other than Allen, the Bills have no stars. Nobody comes into a game with the Bills worrying about what to do about anyone on the Bills except Allen.  There is no LaMarr Chase, no Chris Jones, no Micah Parsons, no Saquon Barkley. The Bills are built that way intentionally. The Bills are built to be a team in the truest sense of the word, to operate together. It's like they're choreographed. And they are built to achieve a variety of goals, like scoring and stopping scoring. But because they're built that way, they aren't going to excel at stopping the best passing teams, like the Rams and the Lions, when they're passing, and they aren't going to excel at stopping the best running teams, like Baltimore, when they're running.  They ARE built to make it more difficult for those teams, and the Bills did make it difficult for the Rams, Lions, and Ravens.  They made it more difficult for the Chiefs. 

 

It's a good defense to win with. It may get overrun by some team in the playoffs, and then we'll say the defense needs to be better against whatever it was that smoked them, but to make it better that way makes it worse some other way. It's supposed to be balanced, to do as well as you can against everything. 

 

In addition, I think we forget, I know I forget, how good some of these guys are. Benford, for example. I continue to think of him as some young, unproven guy. No, he's a stud. He is really good.  And Bernard.  And Johnson. And Oliver. (I said in a different thread that Dan Campbell raved about Oliver, saying the Lions would double him regularly. If you don't double him, he wrecks the interior. That's what Campbell said.)  

 

It's hard to win in the NFL. And it often looks messy. 

 

If the Pats put up 40, I'll start to worry. I doubt that's happening.

Shaw, your take isn’t surprising. You’ve been a McD loyalist since Day One. I’m actually impressed with your consistency. I obviously differ. The Bills have a defensive head coach and have a defensive roster littered with REALLY high draft picks, and yet they have a scheme that apparently relies on…I’m not sure what. Yeah, yeah, yeah everyone ‘do their job’.

Do I love winning more than losing? Sure! Who doesn’t? But I can still be critical of the Bills where that is deserved. I really hope something changes next year with the defense. (And yes, I’m betting it catches up with them in the playoffs…again.)

[Shaw66]

44 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Shaw, your take isn’t surprising. You’ve been a McD loyalist since Day One. I’m actually impressed with your consistency. I obviously differ. The Bills have a defensive head coach and have a defensive roster littered with REALLY high draft picks, and yet they have a scheme that apparently relies on…I’m not sure what. Yeah, yeah, yeah everyone ‘do their job’.

Do I love winning more than losing? Sure! Who doesn’t? But I can still be critical of the Bills where that is deserved. I really hope something changes next year with the defense. (And yes, I’m betting it catches up with them in the playoffs…again.)

If you were in charge, what roster and/or scheme changes would you make?

 

And for the record I've consistently said I have my doubts about McDermotts approach.  I think his style makes for a good regular season team but not so much for the playoffs.  

 

And I certainly haven't said that there's anything wrong with you're being critical.  

Edited Wednesday at 06:40 PM by Shaw66

[Don Otreply]

On 12/17/2024 at 12:04 PM, US Egg said:

Detroit went down, but they didn’t tap.

Yup, Detroit doesn’t give up, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[JP51]

19 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

 

He probably loaded it up with a bunch of hair product so his hand just slipped off.

I was thinking the same thing... DB probably needed stickum after that... wait... stickum... I am totally dating myself... that was the 70s I think LOL 

[Don Otreply]

18 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Ah yes, the “old decimated by injuries” line. It’s the new mantra of every Buffalo Bills season. 

Lighten up SoCal, injuries are a reason, not an excuse, does it suck? Sure does, but that’s the reason why, 

 

That doesn’t mean I think Sean’s approach is the way to go,

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited Wednesday at 07:42 PM by Don Otreply

[SoCal Deek]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

If you were in charge, what roster and/or scheme changes would you make?

 

And for the record I've consistently said I have my doubts about McDermotts approach.  I think his style makes for a good regular season team but not so much for the playoffs.  

 

And I certainly haven't said that there's anything wrong with you're being critical.  

I’m not a defensive coach, or any coach for that matter, but if I was the head coach this level of performance would be completely unacceptable to me. The Bills have spent a ton of draft capital on a D Line and yet seem to be completely lost as to how to scout or develop quality pass rushers. The scheme seems entirely built on the concept of hoping the other team screws up before they get to our end zone. Which is great when you’re playing inferior regular season opponents but is ultimately doomed against playoff caliber offenses.  I can see building an offense loaded with mid level players when you have Josh Allen but for the life of me I can’t figure out how we landed on this scheme for the defense. 

[Governor]

Cook is worth keeping.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not a defensive coach, or any coach for that matter, but if I was the head coach this level of performance would be completely unacceptable to me. The Bills have spent a ton of draft capital on a D Line and yet seem to be completely lost as to how to scout or develop quality pass rushers. The scheme seems entirely built on the concept of hoping the other team screws up before they get to our end zone. Which is great when you’re playing inferior regular season opponents but is ultimately doomed against playoff caliber offenses.  I can see building an offense loaded with mid level players when you have Josh Allen but for the life of me I can’t figure out how we landed on this scheme for the defense. 

But what you actually do if you were the GM and/or coach.  Are you saying you would clean house?  You would change the defensive style in some way?  I mean, it's fine to say that the pass rushers are unsatisfactory, but what are you going to do.  Get others? Get a different coach for the D line?  Change the scheme?

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

But what you actually do if you were the GM and/or coach.  Are you saying you would clean house?  You would change the defensive style in some way?  I mean, it's fine to say that the pass rushers are unsatisfactory, but what are you going to do.  Get others? Get a different coach for the D line?  Change the scheme?

 

 

Yes to all of that. I’ve got to think that the Bills are selecting players that fit the scheme. But the scheme just doesn’t work against quality opponents. We have seen it so many times. The big question is whether the coach is interested in or capable of doing that…or if he is going to stubbornly stick with it so he can prove some kind of a point. Regarding personnel, they need a complete do-over at DE. Groot, Miller and Epenesa do not scare anyone and they certainly don’t wreck an opponent’s game plan. Those are the first guys I’d change. The back end will naturally improve if the DEs can get to the quarterback. 

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes to all of that. I’ve got to think that the Bills are selecting players that fit the scheme. But the scheme just doesn’t work against quality opponents. We have seen it so many times. The big question is whether the coach is interested in or capable of doing that…or if he is going to stubbornly stick with it so he can prove some kind of a point. Regarding personnel, they need a complete do-over at DE. Groot, Miller and Epenesa do not scare anyone and they certainly don’t wreck an opponent’s game plan. Those are the first guys I’d change. The back end will naturally improve if the DEs can get to the quarterback. 

Thanks.  

 

I doubt McD will change his approach, so it won't happen. 

 

I can't say I disagree with you.  I wish they had a big play guy up front. 

[Cash]

11 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes to all of that. I’ve got to think that the Bills are selecting players that fit the scheme. But the scheme just doesn’t work against quality opponents. We have seen it so many times. The big question is whether the coach is interested in or capable of doing that…or if he is going to stubbornly stick with it so he can prove some kind of a point. Regarding personnel, they need a complete do-over at DE. Groot, Miller and Epenesa do not scare anyone and they certainly don’t wreck an opponent’s game plan. Those are the first guys I’d change. The back end will naturally improve if the DEs can get to the quarterback. 

I don’t disagree with you for the most part, and I’m genuinely curious: How many pass rushers do wreck an opponent’s game plan? If you’ve got time to make a list I’d be interested in it. I watch a lot fewer non-Bills games these days, so I’m fairly out of touch with defensive guys around the league. 

[nedboy7]

Shaw your stuff is so well written that maybe you need to banned from this hellhole. 

[Richard Noggin]

On 12/17/2024 at 7:42 PM, Logic said:

There is a certain charm and uniqueness to the architecture in blue collar, rust belt type cities like Detroit and Buffalo.

In fact, one of the most underrated aspects of the city of Buffalo (and nearby Rochester) is its architecture. You don't necessarily realize it growing up. You don't sense that it's unique, and you take it for granted. But then, leaving western new york and going around the rest of the country, it dawns on you: Huh, some of that architecture from the city I grew up in is actually pretty special!

 

I've waited on and met many world travelers (and celebs) who came to Buffalo for its architecture and history. Many northern Europeans for sure. A fair amount of Chinese and South Koreans. Not to mention the immigrants and refugees who have settled here, some with money sensing opportunity, others with nothing sensing safety. 

 

Easy to forget that where we live (or used to live) has been and can be a remarkable place. Shame we didn't have the visionary Bills ownership to muster up the will and the funding to radically recreate downtown by burying the 190 (that UB prof's rendering much like Boston's Big Dig) and placing the new stadium where the cloverleaf 190 interchange is (near Pilot Field or whatever it's called). This would have also re-connected the city to more of its waterfront.

 

Oh well. Orchard Park is fun and spacious. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Cash said:

I don’t disagree with you for the most part, and I’m genuinely curious: How many pass rushers do wreck an opponent’s game plan? If you’ve got time to make a list I’d be interested in it. I watch a lot fewer non-Bills games these days, so I’m fairly out of touch with defensive guys around the league. 

I’m not so into other teams that I can create the list but there are many. Again remember that the Bills have spent a ton of draft capital, second contract capital, and free agent capital on the D Line. It’s not like the position has been ignored. But I maintain it’s the lack of consistent pass rush that’s dictated everything else on the back end. For example you can’t have a man coverage first rounder like Elam on the field when he be forced to cover for so long. You essentially are forced into playing a soft zone. The ripple effect is huge. Is it personnel? Is it coaching, as Shaw asked me? I don’t know, but I’m praying we turn a corner. I’m praying the current plan isn’t the ultimate plan. 

Edited Friday at 03:24 AM by SoCal Deek

[Cash]

9 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not so into other teams that I can create the list but there are many. Again remember that the Bills have spent a ton of draft capital, second contract capital, and free agent capital on the D Line. It’s not like the position has been ignored. But I maintain it’s the lack of consistent pass rush that’s dictated everything else on the back end. For example you can’t have a man coverage first rounder like Elam on the field when he be forced to cover for so long. You essentially are forced into playing a soft zone. The ripple effect is huge. Is it personnel? Is it coaching, as Shaw asked me? I don’t know, but I’m praying we turn a corner. I’m praying the current plan isn’t the ultimate plan. 

Are there really “many”? What does that mean - do most teams have one? I’m skeptical on this front. I would bet that if you sat down and went through rosters, you’d be hard pressed to find more than 10 pass rushers who fit the standard you’re asking for. 
 

1. Parsons

2. Watt

3. Bosa 1

4. Bosa 2

5. Garrett

That's all I can come up with off the top of my head. Who am I missing?

[BearNorth]

4 minutes ago, Cash said:

Are there really “many”? What does that mean - do most teams have one? I’m skeptical on this front. I would bet that if you sat down and went through rosters, you’d be hard pressed to find more than 10 pass rushers who fit the standard you’re asking for. 
 

1. Parsons

2. Watt

3. Bosa 1

4. Bosa 2

5. Garrett

That's all I can come up with off the top of my head. Who am I missing?

PFF Pass Rush Grades - 2024 Season to date:

 

Hutchinson Det [Injured] 95

Garrett CLE 93

Herbig PIT 92.4

Parsons DAL 91.2

Hendrickson CIN 90.1

TJ Watt PIT 89.3

Highsmith PIT 88.6

N. Bosa SF 88.2

Hines-Allen JAX 85.2

Groot BUF 83.0

 

We have a top 10 pass rusher.  With PIT having 3 of top 10, that's gotta speak to Tomlin's schemes, which have been elite for years.

 

Also some elite pass rushers on bad teams.

 

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, Cash said:

Are there really “many”? What does that mean - do most teams have one? I’m skeptical on this front. I would bet that if you sat down and went through rosters, you’d be hard pressed to find more than 10 pass rushers who fit the standard you’re asking for. 
 

1. Parsons

2. Watt

3. Bosa 1

4. Bosa 2

5. Garrett

That's all I can come up with off the top of my head. Who am I missing?

Right away I would add the guy on the Raiders and the Lions kid who’s currently injured. The point is that the Bills pass rushers have been average at best. And I’d say below average for the capital they’ve invested in that position. It needs significant improvement either in talent or coaching or both.