Anyone else want to keep seeing Elam and Bishop on the field after yesterday?

[GaryPinC]

I didn't see all the game but looked like the game is starting to slow down for Bishop, even though he still needs to clean stuff up.  He was moving and anticipating better.

I think a big part of Elam's problem is he has knuckleheaditis.  I'm sure the coaches are very frustrated.

 

Bishop deserves every snap he can get, it still p*sses me off coaches mostly buried him after Houston until now.

For Elam, take the start away from him, coach him up, maybe have Micah talk to him, and give him a chance to redeem himself on the field.  Try something new.

 

I think Elam will be an off-season trade for a draft pick so maybe he can put something good on film.

[T master]

Anything to keep Damar as a back up where he belongs sounds good for me & keep the rookie learning on the field and for the future !! He maybe should have been out there all season and by now he'd have it down ...

[Freddie's Dead]

On 12/23/2024 at 5:34 AM, GunnerBill said:

Both the calls on Elam were legit DPI. 

 

Finally had a chance to review the tape.  The first one I was talking about was actually Ja'Marcus Ingram on Douglas, so sorry about that.  On the pass to Boutte, I see both of them hand fighting, and Boutte actually push off.  I thought it would have been a good no call.  I get why they called it, but the weird thing is the flag comes in from the ref behind the play, and the ref on the goal line, literally 3 yards away from the play kept the flag in the pocket.

[Kirby Jackson]

Nope. Elam is too handsy and Bishop isn’t very good. I’m cool without either of them playing. I’d rather Ingram and an old Micah Hyde. You can work on developing Bishop in the offseason and probably need to find a new home for Elam. 

[Kelly to Allen]

We need Elam's athletic ability in the playoffs. But I'm not McDermott 

[3rdand12]

On 12/23/2024 at 1:29 AM, That's No Moon said:

I'm referring to basically every play where he is pulling and tugging on the receiver.  It happens very very frequently, usually when the receiver is coming out of their break or when the ball is coming, and if he could stop doing that it would be preferred.

Even better would be to learn to turn his head when the ball is near !  Recall Leodis ?

[GaryPinC]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Nope. Elam is too handsy and Bishop isn’t very good. I’m cool without either of them playing. I’d rather Ingram and an old Micah Hyde. You can work on developing Bishop in the offseason and probably need to find a new home for Elam. 

We may not have a choice but to use them in the playoffs.   KC looks to wrap up the 1 seed here.  Can't see a reason not to get them reps.

[Doc]

Go Texans. 

[Sierra Foothills]

Posted elsewhere: The answer to whether they should start the final 2 games is the exact same as the answer to whether Ingram/Solomon/Andreesen/Carter or any young Bills player with upside should start the final 2 games...

 

YES, as long as the degree to which he plays doesn't jeopardize winning those games.

 

Worded differently, the only reason you wouldn't play a young player is because of the risk of losing.

 

If you are not in danger of losing there's no reason not to give a young player with upside, playing time.

 

So it is dependent upon game script.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

We may not have a choice but to use them in the playoffs.   KC looks to wrap up the 1 seed here.  Can't see a reason not to get them reps.

That’s fair. If we want to give them an extended look over the next couple of weeks I’m cool. At this point, neither should be out there in the big moments unless we don’t have a choice.

[GaryPinC]

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/sean-mcdermott-preparing-like-we-need-to

 

Watched the McDermott pressor, he was asked about Cole and sounded pleased mentioning that he noticeably improved his game against the Pats and sounds like he's going to get more reps if not the start Sunday👍

Sounds like Micah is a glorified coach at this point with no immediate change coming.

 

No one asked about Elam.  😂

 

 

[BearNorth]

13 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

 

Watched the McDermott pressor, he was asked about Cole and sounded pleased mentioning that he noticeably improved his game against the Pats and sounds like he's going to get more reps if not the start Sunday👍

 

Ya think, considering Hamlin, Rapp and Lewis are all Questionable as of this afternoon, he's the only healthy safety on the 53-man roster, Tho we do have Cine, Hyde, and Kareem Jackson on the Practice Squad.

[WideNine]

On 12/25/2024 at 11:53 AM, 3rdand12 said:

Even better would be to learn to turn his head when the ball is near !  Recall Leodis ?

 

Oh my. Leodis...now that brings back some PTSD and thanks for that.

 

Recall him single-handedly losing us the game against the Vikes where we knocked Favre into retirement and their backup came in looking like Manning in his prime because he targeted Leodis wherever he was on the field for score after DPI after score....after DPI...

 

Went from proudly flaunting my Bills gear to Viking fans serenading me with the "Skol Vikings" song after each TD.

 

His frantic efforts to make up lost ground on every route and helplessly wagging his hands in front of receivers faces with no idea where or when the ball was arriving was pretty much burned into my retinas that game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Ya think, considering Hamlin, Rapp and Lewis are all Questionable as of this afternoon, he's the only healthy safety on the 53-man roster, Tho we do have Cine, Hyde, and Kareem Jackson on the Practice Squad.

Some on here would be fine with him getting kicked to the bench.  McD felt his game improved noticeably and deserved more snaps.  At least he sees this, he could have paraphrased "well, he did some things good and some bad but he'll get more chances".

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Oh my. Leodis...now that brings back some PTSD and thanks for that.

 

Recall him single-handedly losing us the game against the Vikes where we knocked Favre into retirement and their backup came in looking like Manning in his prime because he targeted Leodis wherever he was on the field for score after DPI after score....after DPI...

 

Went from proudly flaunting my Bills gear to Viking fans serenading me with the "Skol Vikings" song after each TD.

 

His frantic efforts to make up lost ground on every route and helplessly wagging his hands in front of receivers faces with no idea where or when the ball was arriving was pretty much burned into my retinas that game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do apologize to have triggered you ! And I feel ya.

Elam need to be better ball aware. He seems to be watching the Rec movements for the trigger to turn back to the ball. But he isn't there.

And thats no good at all.

Buffalo Coach told Leodis to " Be the receiver and look for the ball like its yours all along " He improved.

 

If you dont have that awareness when running full gallop in trail . You cant play CB. Maybe deep saftey lol

[WideNine]

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

I do apologize to have triggered you ! And I feel ya.

Elam need to be better ball aware. He seems to be watching the Rec movements for the trigger to turn back to the ball. But he isn't there.

And thats no good at all.

Buffalo Coach told Leodis to " Be the receiver and look for the ball like its yours all along " He improved.

 

If you dont have that awareness when running full gallop in trail . You cant play CB. Maybe deep saftey lol

 

Yup.

 

Relies a lot on his athleticism and needs to understand routes and leverage better so he can develop better anticipation mirroring receivers.

 

The better DBs can peek back at the QB and just need a hand against the arm and/or the hip of a receiver to stay with them... and usually there is enough hand fighting that they get away with a little tug at the waist when receivers comes out of their break on routes to stay with them.

 

But not looking back for the ball and stretching out the jersey to gain position when they zig and you zag will draw those DPIs.

 

Tougher too when having to play the more bunch and tight alignments we have seen because there is a lot more to the route tree than a traditional receiver on the boundary with the sideline to help and easier for teams to design picks - we do the same.

 

Hard for the kid to learn without the reps too but he keeps losing out to Benford and Douglas.

 

I thought he played ok vs NE, but I know I am in the minority and every gaffe a DB makes gets magnified.

 

I also liked what I saw briefly from that scrappy DB Hardy they stashed on the practice squad...thought he had a good chance to make the cut.

 

 

 

 

[3rdand12]

19 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Yup.

 

Relies a lot on his athleticism and needs to understand routes and leverage better so he can develop better anticipation mirroring receivers.

 

The better DBs can peek back at the QB and just need a hand against the arm and/or the hip of a receiver to stay with them... and usually there is enough hand fighting that they get away with a little tug at the waist when receivers comes out of their break on routes to stay with them.

 

But not looking back for the ball and stretching out the jersey to gain position when they zig and you zag will draw those DPIs.

 

Tougher too when having to play the more bunch and tight alignments we have seen because there is a lot more to the route tree than a traditional receiver on the boundary with the sideline to help and easier for teams to design picks - we do the same.

 

Hard for the kid to learn without the reps too but he keeps losing out to Benford and Douglas.

 

I thought he played ok vs NE, but I know I am in the minority and every gaffe a DB makes gets magnified.

 

I also liked what I saw briefly from that scrappy DB Hardy they stashed on the practice squad...thought he had a good chance to make the cut.

 

 

 

 

Thank for the responding note 

 Good post too.

Anyone who has hope for Elam is swimming against the tide of looking at him , and fairly so, as the 1st round pick.

 One of biggest questions about Kair is not about him. Coaching. WTH is going on ? The obvious is why cant they develop him by now. The second one for me is

Why have they kept him this long , and mostly off the field.

These are both mysteries for me.

 I have bias in wanting to see him "get it"  or The light comes on type of thing.

 Go Bills

[Sierra Foothills]

9 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Anyone who has hope for Elam is swimming against the tide of looking at him , and fairly so, as the 1st round pick.

One of biggest questions about Kair is not about him. Coaching. WTH is going on? The obvious is why cant they develop him by now. The second one for me is Why have they kept him this long , and mostly off the field.

These are both mysteries for me.

 I have bias in wanting to see him "get it"  or The light comes on type of thing.

 Go Bills

 

I haven't given up hope for Elam and have argued in favor of him getting as much PT as possible.

 

I too wonder about how someone with so much raw ability can still struggle with his job and this makes me question the coaching.

 

That said, he was coached last year by John Butler and this year by Jahmile Addae.

 

You'd think with a fresh start that the light might finally come on for him.

 

Personally I think he's too tightly wound and that he would play better if he dialed it down a bit.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

On 12/24/2024 at 12:54 PM, GaryPinC said:

I didn't see all the game but looked like the game is starting to slow down for Bishop, even though he still needs to clean stuff up.  He was moving and anticipating better.

I think a big part of Elam's problem is he has knuckleheaditis.  I'm sure the coaches are very frustrated.

 

Bishop deserves every snap he can get, it still p*sses me off coaches mostly buried him after Houston until now.

For Elam, take the start away from him, coach him up, maybe have Micah talk to him, and give him a chance to redeem himself on the field.  Try something new.

 

I think Elam will be an off-season trade for a draft pick so maybe he can put something good on film.

 

In his run fits, yes. He was slow to read and react in his coverage responisbilities multiple times. One of the 3rd down conversions early was an example of Bishop being slow reading the play and consequently late to his spot. 

 

He is improving. But it is still a slow process. Looks like he will play again today and the chances are he gets time next week as well if its a dead rubber. But for Cole now it is about getting him ready to compete fully to start in 2025. And I keep coming back to my biggest concern there.... he plays the same position as Rapp. I think the Bills bigger need is an upgrade at free safety for someone who can play as the single high.

[GaryPinC]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In his run fits, yes. He was slow to read and react in his coverage responisbilities multiple times. One of the 3rd down conversions early was an example of Bishop being slow reading the play and consequently late to his spot. 

 

He is improving. But it is still a slow process. Looks like he will play again today and the chances are he gets time next week as well if its a dead rubber. But for Cole now it is about getting him ready to compete fully to start in 2025. And I keep coming back to my biggest concern there.... he plays the same position as Rapp. I think the Bills bigger need is an upgrade at free safety for someone who can play as the single high.

He's still making some mistakes but his game is improving, most notably his reaction time.  Some players may develop in a linear sloped fashion but many are more parabolic in nature.  And Cole may be at the edge of that parabolic swing, we just don't know.  The fact remains he is one of our top backups and we may have no choice in using him during the playoffs.  This snap time is also invaluable for getting him ready for next year.  

NFL game pace and decision making aren't easily simulated in the practice environment.

 

Agree about your biggest concern, but I'll trust the coaches.  Just keep developing our best (game-changing) talent ASAP.  Every year is a Superbowl year with Josh Allen.