Anyone else want to keep seeing Elam and Bishop on the field after yesterday?

[Back2Buff]

Elam speed was evident out there and allowed us to play more man.  I think that element is desperately needed.  Our secondary is just too slow which forces us into too much zone.

 

Douglas has been mediocre at best this year with no INTs.  I'm rolling with Elam for his speed.

 

Bishop can take a seat on bench. I would rather play Jackson.

[Coffeesforclosers]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was mainly Bernard actually. St Brown was 4 for 4 matched against Elam but only for 38 yards. 

 

Bernard gave up 158 yards on 9 targets.

 

I was wondering what went wrong there. It's a good day for any offense when they can consistently scheme their #1 WR into coverage matchups against linebackers.

 

Which is something of a blessing, because on it's face that's a coaching issue that can be worked out.

[RyanC883]

18 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I thought Bishop looked very good supporting the run; decisive and willing to put his face in the fan.

Jameson Williams' speed was new to him and he'll need to get better by adjusting his angles to guys that can run like that.

Most of the completions that came in his general area seemed to me to be more of a LB or Lewis issue.

 

Bishop and his angles are really the only issue I've seen with him.  That likely only improves with game speed.  I think what Williams and Flowers beat him with angles.  Those are two really good WRs.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

I still think it is special teams that is giving him the nod in nickel. A bit of a reward for buying into the process. Which I don't hate at a high level.

But, when Taron was went down last week, Ingram was the call up and I thought played well in his limited snaps at the end of the game. Better than Taron did against Puka (via eye test). 

In general there have been so many weird usages of players over the years. Constantly marching Lewis out there is one of them. I think Elam flashes in his limited snaps (not dressing him is insane to me). Amari Cooper at 45% this week seems wild. The unwillingness to put Dorian Williams back out there. I certainly trust the staff, overall they have been really good, but it seems so strange sometimes.

 

See the only one of those that I think is odd is the Amari Cooper snap count. I know they like Coleman and Hollins in their big packages because of their blocking, and they did use a lot of two tight end. But he is your best receiver. I imagine partly gameplan but bears watching. The other decisions all make sense to me. 

[3rdand12]

19 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

What the OP doesn't give as an option is Hyde.  

 

The Bishop/Elam play time is more for future seasons.  Nice to see get some game time this year but they aren't really factors in this years playoff plans.   

 

Hyde, on the other hand, has the potential to upgrade the team for this years playoffs.  Would like to see him get some game time.

heck rotate all 3 in Bishop Hamlin and even Hyde for few.

It's just the Patriots.

 Love being able to say that.

I think most all of Us agree , be good to get some live reps for Hyde soon , More Bishop and Elam.

 Good time for the Dline to get start heating up a bit

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Bishop and his angles are really the only issue I've seen with him.  That likely only improves with game speed.  I think what Williams and Flowers beat him with angles.  Those are two really good WRs.  

Hence the very reason some of suggest he get more Game day reps against the Patriots and next few weeks perhaps even. At least mix him in.

I cant set down Hamlin or Rapp unless my Coaching excuse is " saving you for playoffs

Good points about those two WRs who helped educate him  lol

[vincec]

On 12/16/2024 at 5:02 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

It was mainly Bernard actually. St Brown was 4 for 4 matched against Elam but only for 38 yards. 

 

Bernard gave up 158 yards on 9 targets.

Who gave up the other 300 yards? 

[Sierra Foothills]

8 hours ago, BritishBill said:

Not a comment on his overall performance at CB, but I thought Elam's role in the fumble recovery was undervalued. Hustled to the loose ball really quickly and played a key part in it getting into Milano's hands. 

 

Agree.

 

As I've said a few times now Kaiir won't ever be a physical player but I think the change in his body is pretty obvious. He looks a lot thicker and stronger.

 

Another thing I'm blue in the face over is that I think they need to scheme him into press man isolations within a zone scheme.

 

Ya think St. Brown's numbers would have been worse had we simply manned Elam on him? How about Nacua?

 

Let him travel with the receiver... let him do what he does best.

 

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

See the only one of those that I think is odd is the Amari Cooper snap count. I know they like Coleman and Hollins in their big packages because of their blocking, and they did use a lot of two tight end. But he is your best receiver. I imagine partly gameplan but bears watching. The other decisions all make sense to me. 

 

How incredibly great is it that we can complete only 9 passes to our wide receivers and still score 48 points AND not hear some dumbass acting out because he didn't see the ball thrown his way?

 

Everybody eats... the running backs had 8 receptions and the tight ends had 6.

 

There's zero question in my mind that Amari Cooper will make huge and timely contributions during our Super Bowl march. In the meantime I'm not worried about his usage and it doesn't appear he's worried either.

 

 

Edited December 18 by Sierra Foothills

[Shaw66]

Yes and no. 

 

No to Elam for Douglas. I like what the Bills get from Douglas: 1. Really solid pass defense, tight coverages. 2. Aggressive run support with solid tackling. Maybe he showed something Sunday, but I didn't see that kind of rock solid play. If another week off would be beneficial to Douglas's recovery, yes, by all means play Elam on Sunday. But then get Douglas back in there and battle ready. 

 

Yes to Bishop for Hamlin.  Hamlin just doesn't do it for me. He's not a powerful tackler, and he strikes me more as a guy who is in the vicinity of making the play, rather than being there and making it. Rapp is on the scene to make the play, but Hamlin usually is just arriving. Bishop didn't show me complete command of the defense on Sunday; he looked like he was stilling thinking about it when other guys already were running to it. However, I'd take him over Hamlin because he has some speed that I don't see in Hamlin, he hits with authority, and he can continue to learn the nuances. In other words, I'd bet on Bishop's higher ceiling, even though he may not yet executing as well as Hamlin. 

 

As I think about it, having two playmakers at safety would make this pass defense a lot stronger for the playoffs.  Rapp is one; I don't think Hamlin can be the second, but Bishop can. So, get him out there on the field, getting game reps, and get him ready for the playoffs. 

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, vincec said:

Who gave up the other 300 yards? 

 

Bernard - 9 targets, 7 receptions, 158 yards

Elam - 7 targets, 5 receptions, 56 yards

Spector - 4 targets, 4 receptions, 48 yards

Lewis - 4 targets, 3 receptions, 42 yards

Johnson - 9 targets, 5 receptions, 39 yards

Milano - 5 targets, 3 receptions, 34 yards

Benford - 5 targets, 3 receptions, 31 yards

Bishop - 2 targets, 2 receptions, 27 yards

 

And then a few minor yards against others.

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes and no. 

 

No to Elam for Douglas. I like what the Bills get from Douglas: 1. Really solid pass defense, tight coverages. 2. Aggressive run support with solid tackling. Maybe he showed something Sunday, but I didn't see that kind of rock solid play. If another week off would be beneficial to Douglas's recovery, yes, by all means play Elam on Sunday. But then get Douglas back in there and battle ready. 

 

Yes to Bishop for Hamlin.  Hamlin just doesn't do it for me. He's not a powerful tackler, and he strikes me more as a guy who is in the vicinity of making the play, rather than being there and making it. Rapp is on the scene to make the play, but Hamlin usually is just arriving. Bishop didn't show me complete command of the defense on Sunday; he looked like he was stilling thinking about it when other guys already were running to it. However, I'd take him over Hamlin because he has some speed that I don't see in Hamlin, he hits with authority, and he can continue to learn the nuances. In other words, I'd bet on Bishop's higher ceiling, even though he may not yet executing as well as Hamlin. 

 

As I think about it, having two playmakers at safety would make this pass defense a lot stronger for the playoffs.  Rapp is one; I don't think Hamlin can be the second, but Bishop can. So, get him out there on the field, getting game reps, and get him ready for the playoffs. 

 

Yea I'm completely the other way. I think Douglas has been average at best this year. I'm ready to give Elam a prolonged audition these next 2 or 3 weeks, knowing I can go back to Douglas in the post season if I need to. But Kaiir gives me an ability when I want to play more man which they have recently (Bills man defense % the past two weeks is way up) and might want to do some in the playoffs. 

 

I worry about Bishop being beat deep. I do think he was better in his run fits compared to the Houston game, and he tackled well. But I don't think he knows the D and I think teams would just try and throw over the top of him a ton. And I come back to the issue with a Bishop - Rapp combo. They are both guys who really wanna be in the box more than in centre field. 

[klos63]

I was really hoping to see Hamlin and Rapp face the Lions offense, I think that would have given a pretty good indication of how good they are or are not. 

[harmonkillebrew]

Not really. Only b/c we might have that luxury to get them some experience against the Patsies. 

But come playoffs, give me Hyde and Rasul! 

[Turbo44]

Lewis was a huge problem Sunday - bad coverage, bad angles, bad tackling. Elam and bishop were not the problem. Spector was really bad too.

 

i think Douglas walks and Elam starts next year

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Bernard - 9 targets, 7 receptions, 158 yards

Elam - 7 targets, 5 receptions, 56 yards

Spector - 4 targets, 4 receptions, 48 yards

Lewis - 4 targets, 3 receptions, 42 yards

Johnson - 9 targets, 5 receptions, 39 yards

Milano - 5 targets, 3 receptions, 34 yards

Benford - 5 targets, 3 receptions, 31 yards

Bishop - 2 targets, 2 receptions, 27 yards

 

And then a few minor yards against others.

Re Bernard, I wonder how they calculate targets. He was in a deep zone a lot and Goff was basically throwing dimes, like millimeters (even less) over his hands.

[BigAl2526]

Mostly, I want to see Elam and Bishop get more time on the field because I think it would help them get better.  Yes, they are faster and more athletic than the guys they replaced, but at some point you need live action to improve your skills.

[BillsFanForever19]

Welp. We saw more of Elam. Do you guys want to see even more?

Edited yesterday at 01:01 AM by BillsFanForever19

[SMAKCruiser]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Welp. We saw more of Elam. Do you guys want to see even more?

Nope

[Roundybout]

14 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Welp. We saw more of Elam. Do you guys want to see even more?

Nah. Bishop looked pretty decent though. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

In fairness the refs were awful, how many phantom PI calls was it by the end? I lost track 🙈.