79 points against in two weeks

[GerstAusGosheim]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Leslie didn't get fired. He walked away. I know people doubt that but I promise you it's true. 

Sean wanted Leslie out. And took calculated steps to ensure that result. So maybe not fired, but certainly forced out. The only reason he wasn't fired is because you cannot fire a Black DC with the #1 ranked defense in 2022. PR nightmare. "Walking away" was a nice story though.

[97bills]

2 hours ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

And i can't argue.

 

Our O dominated the Lions all game long, but i just think our D needs to be tightened up a bit. Our last 3 games should give McD and Babich a chance to straighten out the D before the post season.

 

We weren't going to stop Detroit from scoring, but i believe if our D was playing better, we could have limited them to not having a nail biter at the end.

And even if we didn’t stop them , at least make it take longer then 2:00 minutes, they had 3 TD drives all in two minutes or less. 

2 hours ago, DapperCam said:

The Rams game was bad, but this Lions game was just kind of weird.

 

Bills were up 2-3 scores the entire game pretty much, so it was 3 quarters of pseudo-garbage time. Most of the Lions points came in the 4th quarter where the Bills defense let them trade yards for time.

 

If anything it was a coaching issue where they got a little bit too soft too soon.

But that’s the thing , they scored 3 TD all in two minutes or less. That’s not trading yards for time. That’s giving up 21 points in less then 6:00 minutes. 

[notpolian]

Its awesome when the Bills win.  Makes for a good week of checking websites and listening to podcasts.  But everyone should realize no team has ever won the Superbowl with a defense that gives up this many points.  I'm not trying to be a downer here, I'm just pointing out the concern is real.

 

There is time to "fix" it.  But the problem is McDermott is iron clad wedded to the scheme, and IMO we just don't have the players this year to consistently properly execute the scheme or rise above it.  We have to pressure the passer and play really disciplined zone.  Because even when healthy we can't get away with playing man very often.  It's all about the pass rush and getting decent LB and DB play.  We've had trouble the last two weeks getting those at the same time.

 

So as I see it, if we don't tighten up somewhat on defense, Josh has to go historic super human mode 3 or 4 games in a row to get to the promised land.  It's possible, but not likely.

[zow2]

24 minutes ago, notpolian said:

Its awesome when the Bills win.  Makes for a good week of checking websites and listening to podcasts.  But everyone should realize no team has ever won the Superbowl with a defense that gives up this many points.  I'm not trying to be a downer here, I'm just pointing out the concern is real.

 

I'm enjoying the win over Detroit immensely, but people don't want to hear this.  Right now, however, defense is a flaw for teams like Detroit, Buffalo and Baltimore.  We hope it somehow gets fixed and doesn't become a fatal flaw in the playoffs for our team.

[Simon]

37 minutes ago, 97bills said:

But that’s the thing , they scored 3 TD all in two minutes or less.

 

 

They did indeed overadjust on the first two series after going up 3TD's late in the 3rd quarter and did not force the Lions to burn as much time as they should have.

However, the two series after that Detroit had to assemble 11 play and 16 play drives, the first of which took about 4 minutes and the second of which chewed up the entire game clock except for 12 seconds.

So they got too loose on two possessions but then played the next two correctly, imo.

[DrMaxPower]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think we did do that though in the 2nd quarter. I think there is a baked in assumption amongst our fanbase that every time a team moves the ball against us we must be in soft zone and everytime we get a stop we are blitzing and playing man and it just isn't true. 4th quarter we did go to a lot of softer zones. That IS true. I think they were burned on the long St Brown TD and decided to go more cautious. It was a bit too early to start counting possessions to my eye but there you go. 

Agreed totally.

 

It also ties into a lack of fundamental football knowledge. Most people have no idea what is actually happening on any given play. They're just following the ball.

 

The endless 'prevent defence' complaints, the vague cries for 'creativity', 'adjustments' and 'being aggressive', the unwillingness to consider the limitations of the players on the field at that time. So maddening.

 

Most of the biggest whiners barely have a surface level understanding of the game and no clue what they are talking about.

[Casey D]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

 

They did indeed overadjust on the first two series after going up 3TD's late in the 3rd quarter and did not force the Lions to burn as much time as they should have.

However, the two series after that Detroit had to assemble 11 play and 16 play drives, the first of which took about 4 minutes and the second of which chewed up the entire game clock except for 12 seconds.

So they got too loose on two possessions but then played the next two correctly, imo.

Agree, particularly after rewatching the game.  In focusing on the last 20 minutes and giving up 28 points, what gets lost is that the defense played a huge role in essentially letting the offense put the game out of reach.  D got quick stops on first two Lions' possessions of the game, which gave the offense a chance to build a 14-0 lead that was never relinquished. D got a stop after the Bass miss.  D got a stop on Lions first second half possession, then a turnover, to allow O to extend a 14-point lead.  In fact, after O scored to open second half, the game was never within one score until Lions scored with just 12 seconds after D forced clock drain with 14-point lead.  So, while giving up 42 points, D played well at key times and never let the game get truly in jeopardy-- I know it always feels like the Bills can blow a game-- which is as important I think as giving up 42 points.

Edited December 16 by Casey D

[SoonerBillsFan]

18 hours ago, Danger Mouse said:

Perhaps not. But we've beaten the Lions and the Chiefs now. So which passing team are you scared of playing?

Baltimore the team that crushed us this year.

[Sweats]

2 hours ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

Sean wanted Leslie out. And took calculated steps to ensure that result. So maybe not fired, but certainly forced out. The only reason he wasn't fired is because you cannot fire a Black DC with the #1 ranked defense in 2022. PR nightmare. "Walking away" was a nice story though.

 

 

 

I've been fired many times and i'm not black, so i don't know where we're going with this.......

[GerstAusGosheim]

38 minutes ago, Sweats said:

I've been fired many times and i'm not black, so i don't know where we're going with this.......

This isn’t about you—it’s about Leslie and the systemic issues in the NFL. Minority coaches have historically been underrepresented, even though most players are black, and this has been a hot topic in the league recently. Firing Leslie Frazier, who led the #1 defense, would create a PR nightmare because it highlights the NFL's history of sidelining black coaches. It would be a bad look for the league, which is why it was reported that he 'walked away.' Sorry to hear you’ve been fired so many times, if you were the #1 person in the world at what you did, you too would have every reason to be upset.

[Sweats]

1 minute ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

This isn’t about you—it’s about Leslie and the systemic issues in the NFL. Minority coaches have historically been underrepresented, even though most players are black, and this has been a hot topic in the league recently. Firing Leslie Frazier, who led the #1 defense, would create a PR nightmare because it highlights the NFL's history of sidelining black coaches. It would be a bad look for the league, which is why it was reported that he 'walked away.' Sorry to hear you’ve been fired so many times, if you were the #1 person in the world at what you did, you too would have every reason to be upset.

 

 

 

You must be new around here.........it's always about me, my man.

[Comebackkid]

20 hours ago, JimmyNoodles said:

We are great at hail mary defense. 

we hate the hail mary so much we wont even try one

[cale]

Sorry. But the issue is our D Line. Pound for pound the Bills are about as talented as any D Line in the league. But can’t get consistent pressure on the QB. Just not enough speed. Also tackling yesterday was horrible.

[Harold Jackson]

21 hours ago, zow2 said:

Ouch! thank god for JA17 and the offense on this brilliant win today, but what do we make of this?  I really don’t think this pass defense the last two weeks can lead them to an AFC title let alone Super Bowl.  How does it get fixed?

It gets fixed when they lose in playoffs and hire a coach who isnt a Andy Reid protege 

[amprov56]

21 hours ago, Governor said:

Its the worst defense I’ve ever seen.

Do you understand football?

[nuiwek]

The D is making sure Josh has to keep playing for real so he can get that MVP

[GunnerBill]

21 hours ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

Sean wanted Leslie out. And took calculated steps to ensure that result. So maybe not fired, but certainly forced out. The only reason he wasn't fired is because you cannot fire a Black DC with the #1 ranked defense in 2022. PR nightmare. "Walking away" was a nice story though.

 

I have it from as close as possible to the horses mouth - Leslie walked. Totally his choice. They had discussed making some changes to the defense and he originally signed up then took his week off and changed his mind. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have it from as close as possible to the horses mouth - Leslie walked. Totally his choice. They had discussed making some changes to the defense and he originally signed up then took his week off and changed his mind. 

I can't tell if you're intentionally downplaying what those changes were or if you genuinely don't know. I do. And it's not hard to see why Leslie "walked." Sometimes the circumstances make the decision for you. Like I said, calculated steps.

[colin]

the rams game was horrible, something went totally wrong w the DL.

 

I think bishop and elam might be who we need out there to have our best team available.  douglas has fallen off and is just not the athlete elam is, and hamlin is just small and slow (but i will say, steady).

 

Having all the new guys come in at once vs detroit was not a good thing at all.  spector and the guy we had starting at the other safety position, as well as the guy who can in to replace bishop were big reasons why we gave up so many yards late.  they were off the bench and really not good.

 

I think if mcd and babbich can put some big boy pants on and make the moves they made vs detroit, and we don't have another total mash unit, we will see the bills d able to force 3-5 punts and get 1-2 turnovers, which with our O makes it very very difficult to beat us.

[Cash]

22 hours ago, Casey D said:

Agree, particularly after rewatching the game.  In focusing on the last 20 minutes and giving up 28 points, what gets lost is that the defense played a huge role in essentially letting the offense put the game out of reach.  D got quick stops on first two Lions' possessions of the game, which gave the offense a chance to build a 14-0 lead that was never relinquished. D got a stop after the Bass miss.  D got a stop on Lions first second half possession, then a turnover, to allow O to extend a 14-point lead.  In fact, after O scored to open second half, the game was never within one score until Lions scored with just 12 seconds after D forced clock drain with 14-point lead.  So, while giving up 42 points, D played well at key times and never let the game get truly in jeopardy-- I know it always feels like the Bills can blow a game-- which is as important I think as giving up 42 points.

 

Thanks for the summary.  It fits with my emotion-fused recollection from during the game, which usually but not always holds up on a rewatch.  Last week, I more or less gave up on the game in the 3rd quarter when I realized we'd gotten ZERO stops on defense to that point.  It just felt like the Rams had our number and no matter how good we played on offense, that was that.  Now, we made it a little close in the end, but to me it never felt all that close, because even with all 3 TOs I didn't think we'd be able to stop the Rams from getting a first down and icing the game.  (And yes, I wish we'd been able to actually find out instead of it just being hypothetical.)

 

Contrast that with this week.  We forced 3 and outs on their first two possessions.  Held their vaunted RBs to 13 carries for 35 yards (under 3/carry).  Even down 14-0, the Lions didn't need to abandon the run based on game script. They abandoned it because it wasn't working.  Yes, the Lions made some great plays, and credit to them on that.  But in the moment, I never felt particularly nervous down the stretch.  Not fully safe, because if/when a miracle happens, it usually goes against us.  But those last two drives defensively were IMO a good example of situational football when up late.

 

Side note: The Lions are amazing on offense; about as good as anyone I've seen in a hot minute.  I think many of us, myself included, still kinda see Goff as that young moron who was helpless without McVay reading the defense for him and telling him what to do before the radio cut out.  (Reminds me of my older sibling treating me like I was still 10 when I was a teenager.)  But Goff has really improved as a player, and he's really good at this point.  Add in the talent around him, plus the coaching, and they are LEGIT.  Losing Montgomery hurts them, but I don't think they'll slow down much.  I do think that unless they get some guys back, they're too worn down to get through the playoffs, but we'll see.