Onside kick

[transplantbillsfan]

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:09 AM, Awwufelloff said:

Why do teams go lateral? Kick it straight forward and have kicker ram the guy catching it. I’ve never seen an onside kick like that. Would definitely increase chances from 3%…

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That's exactly what they did on their 2nd onside kick and it almost worked.

[Freddie's Dead]

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:09 AM, Awwufelloff said:

Why do teams go lateral? Kick it straight forward and have kicker ram the guy catching it. I’ve never seen an onside kick like that. Would definitely increase chances from 3%…

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For one, there was a rule change that you can't hit the receiving team until the ball goes 10 yards.  The Bills onside kick in the comeback game is now a penalty.

[Simon]

  On 12/16/2024 at 2:44 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

No I get that. But I'd have been fuming if the Lions recovered and scored. Because it was clearly a foul. 

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You're fair game as soon as you touch the ball, regardless of whether you are at 10yrds or not.

[zow2]

The 2nd onsides was well executed imo because they targeted our defensive player, Taron.  I’d rather kick to him than our pass catchers that were lined up. But Taron is the man and made the play after it bounced into his mask at first.

[Doc Brown]

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:34 AM, TFBillsfan said:

I’m not a fan of the new kickoff rules. Just revert it back to how it was. Seems to work just fine in HS and College.

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Too many injuries.  I’m fine with it if it prevents another Kevin Everette type situation.

[Another Fan]

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:12 AM, Buffalo716 said:

How long have you been watching football? 

 

You've never seen a pooch onside kick up the gut? It's always been one of the more successful ways to do it

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Yeah.  I think Steve Christie's recovery of the onside kick like that in the Comeback is one of the most underrated plays in Buffalo Bills history.  

[GunnerBill]

  On 12/16/2024 at 3:39 AM, Simon said:

 

You're fair game as soon as you touch the ball, regardless of whether you are at 10yrds or not.

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He hadn't touched the ball either. The Lions player makes contact with Johnson first.

[Gunvald's Husse]

  On 12/16/2024 at 3:27 AM, Bermuda Triangle said:

Even at the time, I thought that Campbell's decision to go with an onsides kick with 12:00 left, and the Lions down 10, was dumb.

 

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At the time I thought so too but, thinking about it, I can see some logic in the decision.

 

You recover and you have stolen a posession. Yiou don't and you give the Bills a short field (he probably wasn't expecting it to be that short but it actually was even better for them) and reduce the time the Bills will hold the hold the ball before scoring (I suspect that by that time the assumption on the Lions' sideline was that they would score from anywhere!) so you get the ball back with more time.

 

Not saying that I would have done that but I think there is some (small?) logic to it. Plus, as others have said, it appears the Lions are pretty good at this onside kick thing.

[Scott7975]

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:15 AM, Bray Wyatt said:

Bobby April ran one where he lined them up on each side of the kicker close to him, then kicked it like that, gave more guys a chance to get to it, not sure why no one tries that anymore

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Its a formation penalty now. They have to line up the way they do pretty much.

[Scott7975]

  On 12/16/2024 at 8:07 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

He hadn't touched the ball either. The Lions player makes contact with Johnson first.

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Hard to tell from this angle but I dont think they did. The ball hit Johnson in the facemask. It doesnt look like he got hit before hand. Maybe the knee is hitting his hands but I can't tell from this angle.  If you slow mo it you can actually see the kicker trying to pull up a little before he got there to wait on the ball.

 

Edited December 16, 2024 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

  On 12/16/2024 at 9:39 AM, Scott7975 said:

 

Hard to tell from this angle but I dont think they did. The ball hit Johnson in the facemask. It doesnt look like he got hit before hand. Maybe the knee is hitting his hands but I can't tell from this angle.  If you slow mo it you can actually see the kicker trying to pull up a little before he got there to wait on the ball.

 

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the still doesn't show it but I've watched it about a dozen times and the contact definitely comes before Taron touches the ball. I get that it is bang, bang but it is a definite flag. 

[JoPoy88]

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:09 AM, Awwufelloff said:

Why do teams go lateral? Kick it straight forward and have kicker ram the guy catching it. I’ve never seen an onside kick like that. Would definitely increase chances from 3%…

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Sounds like a great way to murder your kicker

[Scott7975]

  On 12/16/2024 at 10:30 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

the still doesn't show it but I've watched it about a dozen times and the contact definitely comes before Taron touches the ball. I get that it is bang, bang but it is a definite flag. 

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It may. I just can't tell from that angle.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:20 AM, Simon said:

Props to Bernard for the sneaky punch-in before Taron had that ball corralled.

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I also swear I saw a Detroit player’s knee make initial contact with the ball while it was squirting out from Taron’s hands at the beginning of the play, and push it back into the pile—but that is purely anecdotal 🤷. Either way, kudos to the Bills (Taron) not letting Detroit wrestle it away while the refs looked on dumbly for 10 minutes (probably hoping for a Detroit takeaway)…

[The Helmet of]

This was in the post game thread but it also seems relevant here. I didn’t know non consensual penetration was a legal tactic…

[vincec]

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:09 AM, Awwufelloff said:

Why do teams go lateral? Kick it straight forward and have kicker ram the guy catching it. I’ve never seen an onside kick like that. Would definitely increase chances from 3%…

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Teams usually go lateral because it gives member of the kicking team a chance to take out the guys trying to catch the kick. The straight “suicide onside” where the kicker is trying to recover his own kick is less common.

  On 12/16/2024 at 1:13 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

That should have been a flag. The Lion hit Taron before the ball travelled 10 yards and got to him. I know it was bang, bang and that is hard for the officials to see, but definitely should have been a flag.

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I don’t think the kicking team has to wait 10 yards before hitting an opposing player. They can’t touch the ball before it travels 10 yards but that’s it.

[PoundingDog]

  On 12/16/2024 at 9:03 AM, Gunvald's Husse said:

At the time I thought so too but, thinking about it, I can see some logic in the decision.

 

You recover and you have stolen a posession. Yiou don't and you give the Bills a short field (he probably wasn't expecting it to be that short but it actually was even better for them) and reduce the time the Bills will hold the hold the ball before scoring (I suspect that by that time the assumption on the Lions' sideline was that they would score from anywhere!) so you get the ball back with more time.

 

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How does that logic work? Go score a TD so now I have time to score a TD on my own. It's a zero sum game! 

 

The key is to STOP/REDUCE your scoring so I can score to catch up to you. If I do onsite kick, I need to get the ball so I effectively eliminate your chance of scoring in that possession. Any other outcome means squat.

[Ray Stonada]

What problem were the new onside kick rules meant to solve?

 

Personally, I don't like legislating everything so much. Kills the surprise and spontaneity of the game. 

[colin]

between this game and the number of non calls on just completely obvious fouls in front of refs, including an eons early false start on 4th down by the rams, last week; it's pretty clear the refs just want to let offensive fouls go, some on D in coverage too (but i think there is a bit more judgement there and the refs might miss some).

 

as a biased fan i see more against us than for us, but I have seen them both ways.  i think our team plays a faster more spaced style, so it hurts it more than it helps us.  baltimore, for example, commits a foul on just about every play, but only gets called on a few of them.  maybe we can get rapp and bishop together and just assault guys and get away with it on the playoffs, but im not a fan of letting obvious fouls go, and im particularly against inconsistent calls.

 

the last onside was clear, detroit just erred on the side of being insanely aggressive and dared teh refs to flag it, and they kept their hands in their pockets.

[Big Turk]

This was the equivalent of the Patriots under Belichick going for it on their own 30 on 4th down against the Colts because they had no confidence they could stop Manning in the game if they gave him the ball back.

 

Campbell would rather take a 5% chance of getting an onside kick than give the ball to Josh Allen. 

 

Let that sink in for a minute.  The ultimate sign of respect.

Edited December 16, 2024 by Big Turk