Defense is built to stop average and below offenses.

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Why didn’t it happen against Mahomes then?

Hmmmm, looking at his postseason performance against teams he faced more than once.

 

Let me know what you see here. 

 

 

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Hmmmm, looking at his postseason performance against teams he faced more than once.

 

Let me know what you see here. 

 

 

So you don’t have an answer to my question.  Got it.  

I didn’t ask about postseason QB’s they played more than once.  Nice straw man argument though 

[Peace Frog]

6 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

So, they got lucky against the Chiefs?

If Pacheco is playing that game, I think we lose.

[Mikie2times]

9 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

So you don’t have an answer to my question.  Got it.  

I didn’t ask about postseason QB’s they played more than once.  Nice straw man argument though 

This thread is about defense and you went on a rant about the offense for half the thread. Now you call what I'm pointing out as a strawman? Did I miss John Facenda's voice over when NFL films was covering the best regular season performances of all time? I must have missed that. Can you tell me when that episode airs? Is it right after the one about Dan Marino being the best QB of all time? 

Edited December 14 by Mikie2times

[nedboy7]

What defense is build to stop the top 3 offenses in the league. 

[JohnNord]

19 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

This thread is about defense and you went on a rant about the offense for half the thread. Now you call what I'm pointing out as a strawman? Did I miss John Facenda's voice over when NFL films was covering the best regular season performances of all time? I must have missed that. Can you tell me when that episode airs? Is it right after the one about Dan Marino being the best QB of all time? 

Offense was brought up because you blamed the defense.  I’m trying to add context to a fairly biased and short sided arguing.  But keep on, keeping on straw man.  

[LABILLBACKER]

32 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Sorry, I don’t buy that.  I think the difference was the amount of pressure got in that game.  For the defense to work you need to be able  pressure with 4.  That happened against KC.  That did not happen against LAR, and yes Stafford picked apart

You do realize the Bills switched it up and tried to man last week right?

What for like 5 minutes and their players had no clue what to do because they've never been trained, coached or taught this strategy.  Why do you think Elam sits on the bench every week.  Sean sinks or swims with his zone. Take it or leave it. And when his guys are asked to man up they look like fish out of water.  I don't know too many baseball pitchers that throw only 1 pitch. 

[JohnNord]

26 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

If Pacheco is playing that game, I think we lose.

I don’t think Pacheco makes that big of a difference that game.  

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

What for like 5 minutes and their players had no clue what to do because they've never been trained, coached or taught this strategy.  Why do you think Elam sits on the bench every week.  Sean sinks or swims with his zone. Take it or leave it. And when his guys are asked to man up they look like fish out of water.  I don't know too many baseball pitchers that throw only 1 pitch. 

No answer… got it.   Thanks for bringing so much hard evidence to support your argument 👍🏻

[LABILLBACKER]

4 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I don’t think Pacheco makes that big of a difference that game.  

15/97/ 1td in our playoff game this year says otherwise.  Sean's dominant defense held Pacheco to a mere 6.5 yards per run.  

[finn]

6 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Good offenses are hard to stop. That's why we have success in the postseason w Allen

 

It's also why I want continual investment on offense. Yes even at the expense of the defense. Imo it's near impossible to create a perfectly balanced team for the playoffs and we've already shown our strength to be on offense...make that the focus. Find a way to be average on defense. Most other teams don't have an issue w that

I hear that. Trading up for Jordan Addison or Bryan Thomas (or both) might have put us over the top, even at the expense of not drafting Bishop and/or Bernard. 

 

Allen with an elite line, WR corps, tight ends, and running backs? Who needs a defense? 

[Lothar]

46 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Chris Simms making a point that the Bills D style can leave Josh susceptible to long periods of the sideline against the better teams, and is advocating the Bills play a more aggressive style to either get the turnover or stop rather than giving up continued long drives … (4.15 mark on attached clip)

 

I don’t really imagine McDermott is going to change much mid season … but food for thought if we get a repeat of last week against the Lions O..

You know, I used to feel this way back in the Kelly Thurman days also. Be a high risk, high reward defense because your offense is probably better than the opposition. If you get a couple timely sacks or turnovers, that's almost the ballgame. But Walt Corey's defense was kinda like this one. Bend but don't break.  And that was with Bruce and Bennett! That's where you need a creative coordinator to change things up. It feels like the Bills' personnel (smaller and somewhat slower across the back 7) limits options.

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

15/97/ 1td in our playoff game this year says otherwise.  Sean's dominant defense held Pacheco to a mere 6.5 yards per run.  

Hunt had 14 carries for 60 yards.   Do you think the additional 37 yards make up a 2 score deficit?  

Oh and to counter your other point, I pulled this up from Joe Buscaglia’s All 22 review.  Yep… it sure sounds like the problem is the scheme and McDermott’s stubbornness to try anything new:

 

On top of their running woes, the defensive line, except Oliver on a handful of rushes, allowed Rams quarterback Matthew Stafford to have way too much time in the backfield. It allowed the receivers to read the Bills’ zone defense and settle into a clear area, using their positioning against them. If it seemed like Rams receivers were running open all game, the lack of a pass rush was one of the biggest reasons for that feeling. The Bills had to resort to blitzes and man coverage to try and get some heat on Stafford, and it worked occasionally. But predictably, because the Bills are a zone-based defense that doesn’t play man at a high rate, it also led to some big passing plays for the Rams.

 

The Bills’ problems overall didn’t seem to be that they were getting out-schemed by the Rams, which is a positive. There was some of that on route combinations that challenged a specific zone look the Bills were in, just as there is against most opponents, but it wasn’t as if it was a complete flaw that teams can exploit every week moving forward. Many of the Bills problems had to do with diagnosing plays and responding in a timely enough manner, along with winning at the point of attack. The Bills lost at the line of scrimmage in both phases far too often, and that was the biggest reason for Allen’s superhuman efforts to win being wasted.

2 minutes ago, Lothar said:

You know, I used to feel this way back in the Kelly Thurman days also. Be a high risk, high reward defense because your offense is probably better than the opposition. If you get a couple timely sacks or turnovers, that's almost the ballgame. But Walt Corey's defense was kinda like this one. Bend but don't break.  And that was with Bruce and Bennett! That's where you need a creative coordinator to change things up. It feels like the Bills' personnel (smaller and somewhat slower across the back 7) limits options.

I’ve never thought of it it like that, but it’s an interesting thought and something they’ll have to consider 

10 minutes ago, finn said:

I hear that. Trading up for Jordan Addison or Bryan Thomas (or both) might have put us over the top, even at the expense of not drafting Bishop and/or Bernard. 

 

Allen with an elite line, WR corps, tight ends, and running backs? Who needs a defense? 

Did you mean to send this to WGR’s Jeremy White?

[Bermuda Triangle]

6 hours ago, JohnNord said:

So you’re discounting the fact that Buffalo held Kansas City to 21 points a few weeks ago?  It seems to defeat the original premise of this thread, unless you feel that offense with Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce is “average to below.”

KC is one of a handful of NFL teams to have not scored 30 or more points this season.  They're averaging just over 23 ppg so far this season - their offense has not been good so far this season.

[Bermuda Triangle]

5 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Both sides of the ball were bad which is why I don’t think you can fault only the defense.  It was a complete team collapse and a different situation than some of the games that Mickey and others are suggesting

By the time the Bills offense had run their 4th play, the score was already 0-14.  Zero resistance from the defense, which has too often been the case in the post-season (aside from games against backup or 3rd string QBs).

[ProcessImproverMan]

8 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

So, they got lucky against the Chiefs?

Chiefs offense has struggled this year so not really a good example to pick.

 

Dolphins offense is pretty damn good and we got lucky to beat them the second game thanks to Bass nailing a 60 yard field goal. Dolphins offense pretty much marched up and down the field on our defense when their offense was fully healthy (they punted like once that game). The Ravens offense destroyed our defense. Ravens are another very good offense this year. So did the Rams offense. Cardinals offense also scored quite a bit on us. Four good offenses we struggled with. Same story as in the past. 

 

Want to see good defensive play bail a team out repeatedly? Look at the Steelers. 

[QCity]

10 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

KC is one of a handful of NFL teams to have not scored 30 or more points this season.  They're averaging just over 23 ppg so far this season - their offense has not been good so far this season.

 

Yeah their offense has been very mediocre this season, especially compared to years past.

 

Anyways, we'll get to see this theory tomorrow.

[ProcessImproverMan]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

What defense is build to stop the top 3 offenses in the league. 

Steelers arguably 

[JohnNord]

5 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

KC is one of a handful of NFL teams to have not scored 30 or more points this season.  They're averaging just over 23 ppg so far this season - their offense has not been good so far this season.

Where are you getting information from?   They’ve score 30 points twice this season.  

[JohnNord]

9 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

By the time the Bills offense had run their 4th play, the score was already 0-14.  Zero resistance from the defense, which has too often been the case in the post-season (aside from games against backup or 3rd string QBs).

Sure, defense struggled and got off to a bad start.  They also only allowed 13 points over the next 3 quarters.   The Bills could only score 10.  
 

There were multiple times that the Bills offense had a shot to get back into the game and they failed.  There’s a reason Diggs exploded on the sideline - that side of the ball also played like crap.  

The defense completely sucked that game and should have been able to advantage of an injured Bengals OL.  But the offense was almost as bad - which goes against the “defense always lets down Josh in the playoffs narrative”

 

10 minutes ago, ProcessImproverMan said:

Chiefs offense has struggled this year so not really a good example to pick.

 

Dolphins offense is pretty damn good and we got lucky to beat them the second game thanks to Bass nailing a 60 yard field goal. Dolphins offense pretty much marched up and down the field on our defense when their offense was fully healthy (they punted like once that game). The Ravens offense destroyed our defense. Ravens are another very good offense this year. So did the Rams offense. Cardinals offense also scored quite a bit on us. Four good offenses we struggled with. Same story as in the past. 

 

Want to see good defensive play bail a team out repeatedly? Look at the Steelers. 

“Cardinals scored quite a bit?”  They scored 21 points on offense.  

10 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Yeah their offense has been very mediocre this season, especially compared to years past.

 

Anyways, we'll get to see this theory tomorrow.

By the way his stat was wrong about Kansas City.  They’ve scored 30 points 2X this season.  
 

I agree - we’ll see the theory tomorrow 

Edited December 15 by JohnNord

[Bermuda Triangle]

6 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Where are you getting information from?   They’ve score 30 points twice this season.  

sorry - I should have said that they're one of a handful of teams that hasn't scored more than 30 points in any game this season.  Way to ignore the larger point, though.