Defense is built to stop average and below offenses.

[Since1981]

This The ol’ ‘bend but don’t break’ defense sounds great on paper—let ’em get 3 and call it a win. But right now? This defense is less ‘bend but don’t break’ and more ‘bend, bend again, and then fold like a lawn chair at a BBQ.’

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Star L was 29 years old when he got to the Bills. Joined the league at 24 years old. 
 

Daquan was 31 when he got to Buffalo.

 

My point stands - old veterans.

 

AJ Epenesa was not thought of as a first rounder after that 5.04-40 yard dash and sluggish combine, if he ever was, he was taken where most analysts had him pegged.

 

What is your point here? 
 

My point here is that all these “investments” that the Bills have made in the defensive line - none of them have fans, people around the league went Oh Whoa, look out the Bills just added - Austin Johnson, the Bills just drafted Javon Solomon. 
 

Rousseau is their best drafted Defensive Lineman - drafted in a group with Jalen Phillips who fell because of severe injuries at Miami, Oweh of the Ravens as 2nd half Round 1 DEs.

 

Oliver is pretty good maybe, and after that it’s a lot of guys - and that’s not based on hindsight - nobody going in to Boogie Basham was going to be a game changer - his comp was Courtney Upshaw - an 8-sack per year guy, heavy handed, run based defensive end. 
 

What is your point? My point is Beane has had added a whole lot of average based on the cap and where the Bills have been slotted in the draft, and the two significant swings - Oliver and Von were not no brainers when he made them. 
 

Oliver was a poor man’s Aaron Donald. 
 

Read his scouting profile and make this case he was a can’t miss player:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ed-oliver/32004f4c-4929-0385-df1c-0f8e40559b5a

 

 

 

 

My point is that you’re using a LOT of hindsight and distorting some facts.  I wouldn’t call a 5th year pro an “old DT” and wouldn’t say the signing in DaQuan was any type of significant investments like Star.  
 

[Doc Brown]

15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Ben Johnson HC

Jim Schwartz  DC

.....would be amazing...

Cleveland will pry run it back with Stefanski so I see Schwartz staying in Cleveland.  McDermott has a better chance of being struck by lightning than get fired by Pegula this off-season.

[julian]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Cleveland will pry run it back with Stefanski so I see Schwartz staying in Cleveland.  McDermott has a better chance of being struck by lightning than get fired by Pegula this off-season.

I have a buddy who’s constantly going on about replacing McDermott… I just can’t listen to it when there’s virtually ZERO chance of McDermott being replaced.

 

 Complain about him, I know I do, talk about his shortcomings… there’s plenty to talk about lol, but talking about who should replace him isn’t something I want to entertain until there’s an actual possibility of this owner firing him.

[LABILLBACKER]

15 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Cleveland will pry run it back with Stefanski so I see Schwartz staying in Cleveland.  McDermott has a better chance of being struck by lightning than get fired by Pegula this off-season.

I don't dispute any of that.  But it's fun to think about.  Unfortunately with our current defensive scheme and personnel,  I see our chances of winning a SB the same as getting struck by lightning. 

Edited December 14 by LABILLBACKER

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I don't dispute any of that.  But it's fun to think about.  Unfortunately with our current defensive scheme and personnel,  I see our chances of winning a SB the same as getting struck by lightning. 

Vegas disagrees.  We showed we can beat the Chiefs and out defense should be fine if we play Denver or the Colts in the WC round.  We'd pry just need two elite offensive performances to win it all.

11 minutes ago, julian said:

Complain about him, I know I do, talk about his shortcomings… there’s plenty to talk about lol, but talking about who should replace him isn’t something I want to entertain until there’s an actual possibility of this owner firing him.

The only way he's fired after this year is if Allen personally threatens to be traded if McDermott isn't fired.  That's the only way imo barring McDermott stealing Pegula's patio furniture or something.

[Since1981]

Pegs won’t fire McClappy unless #17 says so (see example #14). another D meltdown :13 could be the moment 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

 

My point is that you’re using a LOT of hindsight and distorting some facts.  I wouldn’t call a 5th year pro an “old DT” and wouldn’t say the signing in DaQuan was any type of significant investments like Star.  
 

Thanks man

[folz]

5 hours ago, TD716 said:

Please change up the defensive philosophy this off season . Defense feasts on average and below QB’s and offensive lines. This coupled with Josh gets you double digit win totals each year. In the playoffs you very rarely see below average. Good qb’s,with time, pick apart our defense. Also sick of mobile DT’s. Jeff Wright, Kyle Williams and most of our current ones come to mind. Please either draft or pickup a mountain for the middle to at least stop the run. 

 

First of all, no defense is perfect (except maybe the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens). And news flash, every defense will look worse against the better QBs who have good offensive lines than they do vs. the average or worse QBs. 

 

I actually just posted about this in another thread a few days ago...dispelling the fallacy that McD can't beat the better QBs. I'll condense some info from that here:

-Here are some above average QBs the Bills have beaten over the last 6 years: Tua (10 times), Mahomes (4 times), Jackson (twice), Rodgers (twice), Herbert (twice), Goff (twice), Prescott (twice), Carr, Wilson, Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Murray, Purdy.

-Sean's record vs. Above-average quarterbacks over the last 6 seasons is 32-20

-He's 16-15 vs. like top 10 QBs in their prime [last 6 years]

-He's 8-11 vs. elite QBs [last 6 years] [Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow---that's IF you include Burrow (2 losses) as elite]. And two of the losses to Mahomes and one to Brady were by the thinnest of margins (13 seconds/OT; 3 points; and a bad ref call in another OT game). Could just as easily be an 11-8 record.

 

2019 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2020 The Bills were 16th in points allowed

2021 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2022 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2023 The Bills were 4th in points allowed

2024 The Bills are 8th in points allowed

[Obviously, a bad defensive philosophy]

 

League average of points per game over the last 6 years is 22.9; Bills have allowed 19.4 pts/game over that same span.

 

In the Bills' 11 post-season games under Sean McDermott, the opposing teams have averaged 23.45 points per game. The Bills have allowed three 30+ games by an opponent in eleven playoff games. [For reference, over the last 3 NFL post-seasons, the average score for the winning teams across all games was 30 points.]

 

I have no problem with people discussing issues with the defensive line, or if we should blitz more, or use more man-coverage vs. certain teams, or what type of player we could draft to improve the defense, etc. But these posts about our defense sucks, Sean sucks, change everything, etc. seem a bit off the mark to me.

 

There is no new blueprint to beat Sean's defense. Everyone knows how to do it, the question is can you do it with what you have. There are two ways to beat Sean's defense, imo: 1. Dink and dunk down the field, with quick short passing routes (to neutralize the D-line), and sprinkle in some short to medium runs. But this means you must play mistake-free football across numerous, long-sustained drives for 60 minutes, with consistent execution and yac. Not easy to do. 2. Get great protection from your O-line, have a QB that can make all of the throws, and excellent WR play. You can beat Sean's Defense (as the Rams did and KC has done) in this way (second-level/intermediate passing game). But again, it's tough and you need your offense hitting on all cylinders. Other than the short throws, the windows in Sean's defense are throws that not every QB can make, and not every WR can consistently come down with. Those deep outs or deep seams that take longer to develop (like the ones Stafford was hitting Nacua and Kupp on). So, your O-line needs to be playing their best to give the routes time to develop. You need to have a top-tier QB that can consistently make those types of throws, and again, your WRs will need to make some tough catches on the deep sidelines, or deep over the middle (where they could get their head knocked off). Not every team has the personnel to do that. And those that do still need to be having a near-perfect day to execute it consistently. And as we know in the NFL, not every team has their best every game or even every drive. And even if you can do all of that...you still have to outduel Allen.

 

Can Sean's defense be had. Yes, every defense can on the right day by the right team. But over the long haul, it's been pretty darn good. No other team has been as consistently at the top of the defensive rankings over the last 6-8 years as the Bills.

 

As far as the playoffs, yes, it's tougher because these are the better teams in the league. So, it really comes down to execution. Does the team you're playing have the personnel to beat you? If they do, are they at their best today? If yes, then it's just who makes those few extra plays, the offense or the defense (like the Nacua toe-drag catch in the Rams game, or the Kelce play in the 13-seconds game, etc.). Now, do I wish Sean had a better change-up for when a team is being that successful? Yes, but I don't really know what that would be. It's hard to just switch to an entirely different style if you don't have the right personnel or the practice at it (I mean, you can switch from zone to man coverage, but you aren't going to do something completely different/out of the blue). Seems you just need some guys on your defense (players on the field) to come up with a couple more plays than the offense does at the right moments. Four of our six playoff losses were by one score. We are talking about just a couple of plays a game going the other way. I know those losses are hard to swallow, but we are still just too close in my opinion to be wanting to blow things up in any way. Let's at least see how these playoffs go first, especially if we can finally go into them healthy.

 

Let's not kid ourselves that there is some perfect defensive scheme out there that will consistently and perfectly be able to match up against say a high-flying KC team one week and a dominant running team like Baltimore the next week. We always hear them say, in regards to QBs, they took what the defense gave them. Because every defense has to concede something each week. That is why there are game plans. You try to take away what they are best at and you concede areas where they are weaker or less-threatening. Like the Bills will concede some rushing yards to shut down a passing attack. No defense can cover everything. If a very-talented offense is executing perfectly in all areas, just having one of those days...there isn't much more you can do than try to steal a couple of plays and outscore them, no matter what defense you are running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 minutes ago, folz said:

 

First of all, no defense is perfect (except maybe the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens). And news flash, every defense will look worse against the better QBs who have good offensive lines than they do vs. the average or worse QBs. 

 

I actually just posted about this in another thread a few days ago...dispelling the fallacy that McD can't beat the better QBs. I'll condense some info from that here:

-Here are some above average QBs the Bills have beaten over the last 6 years: Tua (10 times), Mahomes (4 times), Jackson (twice), Rodgers (twice), Herbert (twice), Goff (twice), Prescott (twice), Carr, Wilson, Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Murray, Purdy.

-Sean's record vs. Above-average quarterbacks over the last 6 seasons is 32-20

-He's 16-15 vs. like top 10 QBs in their prime [last 6 years]

-He's 8-11 vs. elite QBs [last 6 years] [Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow---that's IF you include Burrow (2 losses) as elite]. And two of the losses to Mahomes and one to Brady were by the thinnest of margins (13 seconds/OT; 3 points; and a bad ref call in another OT game). Could just as easily be an 11-8 record.

 

2019 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2020 The Bills were 16th in points allowed

2021 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2022 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2023 The Bills were 4th in points allowed

2024 The Bills are 8th in points allowed

[Obviously, a bad defensive philosophy]

 

League average of points per game over the last 6 years is 22.9; Bills have allowed 19.4 pts/game over that same span.

 

In the Bills' 11 post-season games under Sean McDermott, the opposing teams have averaged 23.45 points per game. The Bills have allowed three 30+ games by an opponent in eleven playoff games. [For reference, over the last 3 NFL post-seasons, the average score for the winning teams across all games was 30 points.]

 

I have no problem with people discussing issues with the defensive line, or if we should blitz more, or use more man-coverage vs. certain teams, or what type of player we could draft to improve the defense, etc. But these posts about our defense sucks, Sean sucks, change everything, etc. seem a bit off the mark to me.

 

There is no new blueprint to beat Sean's defense. Everyone knows how to do it, the question is can you do it with what you have. There are two ways to beat Sean's defense, imo: 1. Dink and dunk down the field, with quick short passing routes (to neutralize the D-line), and sprinkle in some short to medium runs. But this means you must play mistake-free football across numerous, long-sustained drives for 60 minutes, with consistent execution and yac. Not easy to do. 2. Get great protection from your O-line, have a QB that can make all of the throws, and excellent WR play. You can beat Sean's Defense (as the Rams did and KC has done) in this way (second-level/intermediate passing game). But again, it's tough and you need your offense hitting on all cylinders. Other than the short throws, the windows in Sean's defense are throws that not every QB can make, and not every WR can consistently come down with. Those deep outs or deep seams that take longer to develop (like the ones Stafford was hitting Nacua and Kupp on). So, your O-line needs to be playing their best to give the routes time to develop. You need to have a top-tier QB that can consistently make those types of throws, and again, your WRs will need to make some tough catches on the deep sidelines, or deep over the middle (where they could get their head knocked off). Not every team has the personnel to do that. And those that do still need to be having a near-perfect day to execute it consistently. And as we know in the NFL, not every team has their best every game or even every drive. And even if you can do all of that...you still have to outduel Allen.

 

Can Sean's defense be had. Yes, every defense can on the right day by the right team. But over the long haul, it's been pretty darn good. No other team has been as consistently at the top of the defensive rankings over the last 6-8 years as the Bills.

 

As far as the playoffs, yes, it's tougher because these are the better teams in the league. So, it really comes down to execution. Does the team you're playing have the personnel to beat you? If they do, are they at their best today? If yes, then it's just who makes those few extra plays, the offense or the defense (like the Nacua toe-drag catch in the Rams game, or the Kelce play in the 13-seconds game, etc.). Now, do I wish Sean had a better change-up for when a team is being that successful? Yes, but I don't really know what that would be. It's hard to just switch to an entirely different style if you don't have the right personnel or the practice at it (I mean, you can switch from zone to man coverage, but you aren't going to do something completely different/out of the blue). Seems you just need some guys on your defense (players on the field) to come up with a couple more plays than the offense does at the right moments. Four of our six playoff losses were by one score. We are talking about just a couple of plays a game going the other way. I know those losses are hard to swallow, but we are still just too close in my opinion to be wanting to blow things up in any way. Let's at least see how these playoffs go first, especially if we can finally go into them healthy.

 

Let's not kid ourselves that there is some perfect defensive scheme out there that will consistently and perfectly be able to match up against say a high-flying KC team one week and a dominant running team like Baltimore the next week. We always hear them say, in regards to QBs, they took what the defense gave them. Because every defense has to concede something each week. That is why there are game plans. You try to take away what they are best at and you concede areas where they are weaker or less-threatening. Like the Bills will concede some rushing yards to shut down a passing attack. No defense can cover everything. If a very-talented offense is executing perfectly in all areas, just having one of those days...there isn't much more you can do than try to steal a couple of plays and outscore them, no matter what defense you are running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read this - so to summarize - Bills have been historically good, so not much you can do. 

[Mikie2times]

17 minutes ago, folz said:

 

First of all, no defense is perfect (except maybe the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens). And news flash, every defense will look worse against the better QBs who have good offensive lines than they do vs. the average or worse QBs. 

 

I actually just posted about this in another thread a few days ago...dispelling the fallacy that McD can't beat the better QBs. I'll condense some info from that here:

-Here are some above average QBs the Bills have beaten over the last 6 years: Tua (10 times), Mahomes (4 times), Jackson (twice), Rodgers (twice), Herbert (twice), Goff (twice), Prescott (twice), Carr, Wilson, Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Murray, Purdy.

-Sean's record vs. Above-average quarterbacks over the last 6 seasons is 32-20

-He's 16-15 vs. like top 10 QBs in their prime [last 6 years]

-He's 8-11 vs. elite QBs [last 6 years] [Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow---that's IF you include Burrow (2 losses) as elite]. And two of the losses to Mahomes and one to Brady were by the thinnest of margins (13 seconds/OT; 3 points; and a bad ref call in another OT game). Could just as easily be an 11-8 record.

 

2019 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2020 The Bills were 16th in points allowed

2021 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2022 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2023 The Bills were 4th in points allowed

2024 The Bills are 8th in points allowed

[Obviously, a bad defensive philosophy]

 

League average of points per game over the last 6 years is 22.9; Bills have allowed 19.4 pts/game over that same span.

 

In the Bills' 11 post-season games under Sean McDermott, the opposing teams have averaged 23.45 points per game. The Bills have allowed three 30+ games by an opponent in eleven playoff games. [For reference, over the last 3 NFL post-seasons, the average score for the winning teams across all games was 30 points.]

 

I have no problem with people discussing issues with the defensive line, or if we should blitz more, or use more man-coverage vs. certain teams, or what type of player we could draft to improve the defense, etc. But these posts about our defense sucks, Sean sucks, change everything, etc. seem a bit off the mark to me.

 

There is no new blueprint to beat Sean's defense. Everyone knows how to do it, the question is can you do it with what you have. There are two ways to beat Sean's defense, imo: 1. Dink and dunk down the field, with quick short passing routes (to neutralize the D-line), and sprinkle in some short to medium runs. But this means you must play mistake-free football across numerous, long-sustained drives for 60 minutes, with consistent execution and yac. Not easy to do. 2. Get great protection from your O-line, have a QB that can make all of the throws, and excellent WR play. You can beat Sean's Defense (as the Rams did and KC has done) in this way (second-level/intermediate passing game). But again, it's tough and you need your offense hitting on all cylinders. Other than the short throws, the windows in Sean's defense are throws that not every QB can make, and not every WR can consistently come down with. Those deep outs or deep seams that take longer to develop (like the ones Stafford was hitting Nacua and Kupp on). So, your O-line needs to be playing their best to give the routes time to develop. You need to have a top-tier QB that can consistently make those types of throws, and again, your WRs will need to make some tough catches on the deep sidelines, or deep over the middle (where they could get their head knocked off). Not every team has the personnel to do that. And those that do still need to be having a near-perfect day to execute it consistently. And as we know in the NFL, not every team has their best every game or even every drive. And even if you can do all of that...you still have to outduel Allen.

 

Can Sean's defense be had. Yes, every defense can on the right day by the right team. But over the long haul, it's been pretty darn good. No other team has been as consistently at the top of the defensive rankings over the last 6-8 years as the Bills.

 

As far as the playoffs, yes, it's tougher because these are the better teams in the league. So, it really comes down to execution. Does the team you're playing have the personnel to beat you? If they do, are they at their best today? If yes, then it's just who makes those few extra plays, the offense or the defense (like the Nacua toe-drag catch in the Rams game, or the Kelce play in the 13-seconds game, etc.). Now, do I wish Sean had a better change-up for when a team is being that successful? Yes, but I don't really know what that would be. It's hard to just switch to an entirely different style if you don't have the right personnel or the practice at it (I mean, you can switch from zone to man coverage, but you aren't going to do something completely different/out of the blue). Seems you just need some guys on your defense (players on the field) to come up with a couple more plays than the offense does at the right moments. Four of our six playoff losses were by one score. We are talking about just a couple of plays a game going the other way. I know those losses are hard to swallow, but we are still just too close in my opinion to be wanting to blow things up in any way. Let's at least see how these playoffs go first, especially if we can finally go into them healthy.

 

Let's not kid ourselves that there is some perfect defensive scheme out there that will consistently and perfectly be able to match up against say a high-flying KC team one week and a dominant running team like Baltimore the next week. We always hear them say, in regards to QBs, they took what the defense gave them. Because every defense has to concede something each week. That is why there are game plans. You try to take away what they are best at and you concede areas where they are weaker or less-threatening. Like the Bills will concede some rushing yards to shut down a passing attack. No defense can cover everything. If a very-talented offense is executing perfectly in all areas, just having one of those days...there isn't much more you can do than try to steal a couple of plays and outscore them, no matter what defense you are running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s the violence in which the defense has declined against capable offenses in the playoffs. If you look at how this defense has performed in the playoffs against teams that actually have a starting caliber NFL QB, the only even above average showing we have had is vs a Greg Roman offense in a very bad weather environment.
 

Nobody would ever question how his defense would perform vs Skyler Thompson, Mason Rudolph, and Mac Jones. It’s just an extension of the regular season at that point. Which nobody would questions either. 

 

So then you look at blowing 16-0 lead to the Houston, then allowing newg 500 yards of offense to

the Colts, then being totally decimated by the Bengals and the Chiefs 3 times. In those Chiefs and Bengals games would we have taken even an average performance? Nothing crazy. Just baseline average how they did all season? If we even got that we would have won at least half those games.

 

The precision at which good teams carve this system up in the postseason is stunning. So while we have had a lot of success, I think at this point it’s perfectly logical to wonder what the hell is going on with this system and if it’s capable of doing what we need when the games matter more. Perhaps it is just the talent, but that brings on another conversation given we haven’t been very shy of investing on that side of the ball.

Edited December 14 by Mikie2times

[stuvian]

You have to admit we've been successful at keeping opponents under 50 points 

[billrooter]

6 hours ago, TD716 said:

Please change up the defensive philosophy this off season . Defense feasts on average and below QB’s and offensive lines. This coupled with Josh gets you double digit win totals each year. In the playoffs you very rarely see below average. Good qb’s,with time, pick apart our defense. Also sick of mobile DT’s. Jeff Wright, Kyle Williams and most of our current ones come to mind. Please either draft or pickup a mountain for the middle to at least stop the run. 

We aren't changing the defensive philosophy unless we axe McDermott, this is his defense. Same thing has happened every year in the playoffs.

[JohnNord]

35 minutes ago, folz said:

 

First of all, no defense is perfect (except maybe the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens). And news flash, every defense will look worse against the better QBs who have good offensive lines than they do vs. the average or worse QBs. 

 

I actually just posted about this in another thread a few days ago...dispelling the fallacy that McD can't beat the better QBs. I'll condense some info from that here:

-Here are some above average QBs the Bills have beaten over the last 6 years: Tua (10 times), Mahomes (4 times), Jackson (twice), Rodgers (twice), Herbert (twice), Goff (twice), Prescott (twice), Carr, Wilson, Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Murray, Purdy.

-Sean's record vs. Above-average quarterbacks over the last 6 seasons is 32-20

-He's 16-15 vs. like top 10 QBs in their prime [last 6 years]

-He's 8-11 vs. elite QBs [last 6 years] [Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow---that's IF you include Burrow (2 losses) as elite]. And two of the losses to Mahomes and one to Brady were by the thinnest of margins (13 seconds/OT; 3 points; and a bad ref call in another OT game). Could just as easily be an 11-8 record.

 

2019 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2020 The Bills were 16th in points allowed

2021 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2022 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2023 The Bills were 4th in points allowed

2024 The Bills are 8th in points allowed

[Obviously, a bad defensive philosophy]

 

League average of points per game over the last 6 years is 22.9; Bills have allowed 19.4 pts/game over that same span.

 

In the Bills' 11 post-season games under Sean McDermott, the opposing teams have averaged 23.45 points per game. The Bills have allowed three 30+ games by an opponent in eleven playoff games. [For reference, over the last 3 NFL post-seasons, the average score for the winning teams across all games was 30 points.]

 

I have no problem with people discussing issues with the defensive line, or if we should blitz more, or use more man-coverage vs. certain teams, or what type of player we could draft to improve the defense, etc. But these posts about our defense sucks, Sean sucks, change everything, etc. seem a bit off the mark to me.

 

There is no new blueprint to beat Sean's defense. Everyone knows how to do it, the question is can you do it with what you have. There are two ways to beat Sean's defense, imo: 1. Dink and dunk down the field, with quick short passing routes (to neutralize the D-line), and sprinkle in some short to medium runs. But this means you must play mistake-free football across numerous, long-sustained drives for 60 minutes, with consistent execution and yac. Not easy to do. 2. Get great protection from your O-line, have a QB that can make all of the throws, and excellent WR play. You can beat Sean's Defense (as the Rams did and KC has done) in this way (second-level/intermediate passing game). But again, it's tough and you need your offense hitting on all cylinders. Other than the short throws, the windows in Sean's defense are throws that not every QB can make, and not every WR can consistently come down with. Those deep outs or deep seams that take longer to develop (like the ones Stafford was hitting Nacua and Kupp on). So, your O-line needs to be playing their best to give the routes time to develop. You need to have a top-tier QB that can consistently make those types of throws, and again, your WRs will need to make some tough catches on the deep sidelines, or deep over the middle (where they could get their head knocked off). Not every team has the personnel to do that. And those that do still need to be having a near-perfect day to execute it consistently. And as we know in the NFL, not every team has their best every game or even every drive. And even if you can do all of that...you still have to outduel Allen.

 

Can Sean's defense be had. Yes, every defense can on the right day by the right team. But over the long haul, it's been pretty darn good. No other team has been as consistently at the top of the defensive rankings over the last 6-8 years as the Bills.

 

As far as the playoffs, yes, it's tougher because these are the better teams in the league. So, it really comes down to execution. Does the team you're playing have the personnel to beat you? If they do, are they at their best today? If yes, then it's just who makes those few extra plays, the offense or the defense (like the Nacua toe-drag catch in the Rams game, or the Kelce play in the 13-seconds game, etc.). Now, do I wish Sean had a better change-up for when a team is being that successful? Yes, but I don't really know what that would be. It's hard to just switch to an entirely different style if you don't have the right personnel or the practice at it (I mean, you can switch from zone to man coverage, but you aren't going to do something completely different/out of the blue). Seems you just need some guys on your defense (players on the field) to come up with a couple more plays than the offense does at the right moments. Four of our six playoff losses were by one score. We are talking about just a couple of plays a game going the other way. I know those losses are hard to swallow, but we are still just too close in my opinion to be wanting to blow things up in any way. Let's at least see how these playoffs go first, especially if we can finally go into them healthy.

 

Let's not kid ourselves that there is some perfect defensive scheme out there that will consistently and perfectly be able to match up against say a high-flying KC team one week and a dominant running team like Baltimore the next week. We always hear them say, in regards to QBs, they took what the defense gave them. Because every defense has to concede something each week. That is why there are game plans. You try to take away what they are best at and you concede areas where they are weaker or less-threatening. Like the Bills will concede some rushing yards to shut down a passing attack. No defense can cover everything. If a very-talented offense is executing perfectly in all areas, just having one of those days...there isn't much more you can do than try to steal a couple of plays and outscore them, no matter what defense you are running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

just an elite thread that completely debunks the fake narratives and confirmation bias running rampant in this thread.  Nice work. 

[Success]

Fully agree w/ the OP.

 

I think the better QB's and offenses can pick apart the kind of zone we play fairly easily.  

 

It's troubling, because obviously, once you get to the playoffs - it's mainly better QB's and offenses.

 

 

 

[JohnNord]

15 minutes ago, Success said:

Fully agree w/ the OP.

 

I think the better QB's and offenses can pick apart the kind of zone we play fairly easily.  

 

It's troubling, because obviously, once you get to the playoffs - it's mainly better QB's and offenses.

 

 

 

Why didn’t it happen against Mahomes then?

[Success]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Why didn’t it happen against Mahomes then?

 

Their offense simply isn't good this year.  Wideouts are relatively easy to cover compared to past years.

 

[Aussie Joe]

Chris Simms making a point that the Bills D style can leave Josh susceptible to long periods of the sideline against the better teams, and is advocating the Bills play a more aggressive style to either get the turnover or stop rather than giving up continued long drives … (4.15 mark on attached clip)

 

I don’t really imagine McDermott is going to change much mid season … but food for thought if we get a repeat of last week against the Lions O..

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, folz said:

 

First of all, no defense is perfect (except maybe the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens). And news flash, every defense will look worse against the better QBs who have good offensive lines than they do vs. the average or worse QBs. 

 

I actually just posted about this in another thread a few days ago...dispelling the fallacy that McD can't beat the better QBs. I'll condense some info from that here:

-Here are some above average QBs the Bills have beaten over the last 6 years: Tua (10 times), Mahomes (4 times), Jackson (twice), Rodgers (twice), Herbert (twice), Goff (twice), Prescott (twice), Carr, Wilson, Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Murray, Purdy.

-Sean's record vs. Above-average quarterbacks over the last 6 seasons is 32-20

-He's 16-15 vs. like top 10 QBs in their prime [last 6 years]

-He's 8-11 vs. elite QBs [last 6 years] [Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow---that's IF you include Burrow (2 losses) as elite]. And two of the losses to Mahomes and one to Brady were by the thinnest of margins (13 seconds/OT; 3 points; and a bad ref call in another OT game). Could just as easily be an 11-8 record.

 

2019 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2020 The Bills were 16th in points allowed

2021 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2022 The Bills were 2nd in points allowed

2023 The Bills were 4th in points allowed

2024 The Bills are 8th in points allowed

[Obviously, a bad defensive philosophy]

 

League average of points per game over the last 6 years is 22.9; Bills have allowed 19.4 pts/game over that same span.

 

In the Bills' 11 post-season games under Sean McDermott, the opposing teams have averaged 23.45 points per game. The Bills have allowed three 30+ games by an opponent in eleven playoff games. [For reference, over the last 3 NFL post-seasons, the average score for the winning teams across all games was 30 points.]

 

I have no problem with people discussing issues with the defensive line, or if we should blitz more, or use more man-coverage vs. certain teams, or what type of player we could draft to improve the defense, etc. But these posts about our defense sucks, Sean sucks, change everything, etc. seem a bit off the mark to me.

 

There is no new blueprint to beat Sean's defense. Everyone knows how to do it, the question is can you do it with what you have. There are two ways to beat Sean's defense, imo: 1. Dink and dunk down the field, with quick short passing routes (to neutralize the D-line), and sprinkle in some short to medium runs. But this means you must play mistake-free football across numerous, long-sustained drives for 60 minutes, with consistent execution and yac. Not easy to do. 2. Get great protection from your O-line, have a QB that can make all of the throws, and excellent WR play. You can beat Sean's Defense (as the Rams did and KC has done) in this way (second-level/intermediate passing game). But again, it's tough and you need your offense hitting on all cylinders. Other than the short throws, the windows in Sean's defense are throws that not every QB can make, and not every WR can consistently come down with. Those deep outs or deep seams that take longer to develop (like the ones Stafford was hitting Nacua and Kupp on). So, your O-line needs to be playing their best to give the routes time to develop. You need to have a top-tier QB that can consistently make those types of throws, and again, your WRs will need to make some tough catches on the deep sidelines, or deep over the middle (where they could get their head knocked off). Not every team has the personnel to do that. And those that do still need to be having a near-perfect day to execute it consistently. And as we know in the NFL, not every team has their best every game or even every drive. And even if you can do all of that...you still have to outduel Allen.

 

Can Sean's defense be had. Yes, every defense can on the right day by the right team. But over the long haul, it's been pretty darn good. No other team has been as consistently at the top of the defensive rankings over the last 6-8 years as the Bills.

 

As far as the playoffs, yes, it's tougher because these are the better teams in the league. So, it really comes down to execution. Does the team you're playing have the personnel to beat you? If they do, are they at their best today? If yes, then it's just who makes those few extra plays, the offense or the defense (like the Nacua toe-drag catch in the Rams game, or the Kelce play in the 13-seconds game, etc.). Now, do I wish Sean had a better change-up for when a team is being that successful? Yes, but I don't really know what that would be. It's hard to just switch to an entirely different style if you don't have the right personnel or the practice at it (I mean, you can switch from zone to man coverage, but you aren't going to do something completely different/out of the blue). Seems you just need some guys on your defense (players on the field) to come up with a couple more plays than the offense does at the right moments. Four of our six playoff losses were by one score. We are talking about just a couple of plays a game going the other way. I know those losses are hard to swallow, but we are still just too close in my opinion to be wanting to blow things up in any way. Let's at least see how these playoffs go first, especially if we can finally go into them healthy.

 

Let's not kid ourselves that there is some perfect defensive scheme out there that will consistently and perfectly be able to match up against say a high-flying KC team one week and a dominant running team like Baltimore the next week. We always hear them say, in regards to QBs, they took what the defense gave them. Because every defense has to concede something each week. That is why there are game plans. You try to take away what they are best at and you concede areas where they are weaker or less-threatening. Like the Bills will concede some rushing yards to shut down a passing attack. No defense can cover everything. If a very-talented offense is executing perfectly in all areas, just having one of those days...there isn't much more you can do than try to steal a couple of plays and outscore them, no matter what defense you are running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But there lies the problem.  He's hammered "into them"and trained his defense to be exclusively zone.  So if by some emergency he faces a KC, Baltimore or Rams team that starts exploiting that scheme, he doesn't have a backup plan because his players can't play man or his DL rarely stunts with pre- snap movement. You gotta have a D that has more than 1 pitch to get guys out.

 

I'd also argue that alot of these qbs you've listed (Tua, Purdy, Carr, Dak) are hardly elite and maybe not even "above average".  Just because an organization is dumb enough to pay them elite money doesn't mean they are. 

Edited December 14 by LABILLBACKER

[JohnNord]

Just now, Success said:

 

Their offense simply isn't good this year.  Wideouts are relatively easy to cover compared to past years.

 

Sorry, I don’t buy that.  I think the difference was the amount of pressure got in that game.  For the defense to work you need to be able  pressure with 4.  That happened against KC.  That did not happen against LAR, and yes Stafford picked apart

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

But there lies the problem.  He's hammered "into them"and trained his defense to be exclusively zone.  So if by some emergency he faces a KC, Baltimore or Rams team that starts exploiting that scheme, he doesn't have a backup plan because his players can't play man or his DL rarely stunts with pre- snap movement. You gotta have a D that has more than 1 pitch to get guys out.

 

I'd also argue that alot of these qbs you've listed (Tua, Purdy, Carr, Dak) are hardly elite and maybe not even "above average".  Just because an organization is dumb enough to pay them elite money doesn't mean they are. 

You do realize the Bills switched it up and tried to man last week right?