Defense is built to stop average and below offenses.

[Freddie's Dead]

You lost me at Kyle Williams.

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The Bills sure looked like they had no idea how to play defense in the snow. The Bengals were happy to pile up rac yards as the Bills backed off. Still, Allen did almost nothing to match the Bengals and Burrow that day. Defense was bad, and offense was non existent. 

I don't disagree, but to absolve the defense because of the offense was bad is a bit short sighted. I mean in one post, he calls out the offense vs the Bengals and then sites how we didn't lose to the Colts in 2020. I'm pretty sure the reason we didn't lose to the Colts in 2020 was a lot of luck and and above average offensive play. We dropped 27 on nearly 400 yards of offense. 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, mannc said:

I re-watched last year’s playoff game a couple weeks ago.  Josh Allen had a near-perfect game…the Bills’ receivers had 4 HUGE drops (by Diggs, Cook and 2 egregious ones by Sherfield) all of which were costly.

I haven’t rewatched - but I’m not surprised by what you saw. I remember several drops- especially the Diggs drop late in the game. The defense  was up against it that day, but Josh almost pulled off the win anyway. I felt for sure after the 2 minute warning that we would see a large helping of Josh Allen runs . I didn’t understand the final sequence at all- scoring quickly there would have just allowed Mahomes get the winning points in the final seconds. 

Just now, Mikie2times said:

I don't disagree, but to absolve the defense because of the offense was bad is a bit short sighted. I mean in one post, he calls out the offense vs the Bengals and then sites how we didn't lose to the Colts in 2020. I'm pretty sure the reason we didn't lose to the Colts in 2020 was a lot of luck and and above average offensive play. We dropped 27 on nearly 400 yards of offense. 

I’m in no way absolving them. I spent a small fortune to attend that game last minute and was bitterly disappointed in McD. They looked to me like they had never seen snow. Seemed like every play the Bengals were catching passes in front of Bills defenders and cruising to easy first downs. Offensively the Bills were trying to hit pass plays well down the field. Worst playoff performance top to bottom by a Bills team in the McDermott era. 

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I haven’t rewatched - but I’m not surprised by what you saw. I remember several drops- especially the Diggs drop late in the game. The defense  was up against it that day, but Josh almost pulled off the win anyway. I felt for sure after the 2 minute warning that we would see a large helping of Josh Allen runs . I didn’t understand the final sequence at all- scoring quickly there would have just allowed Mahomes get the winning points in the final seconds. 

I’m in no way absolving them. I spent a small fortune to attend that game last minute and was bitterly disappointed in McD. They looked to me like they had never seen snow. Seemed like every play the Bengals were catching passes in front of Bills defenders and cruising to easy first downs. Offensively the Bills were trying to hit pass plays well down the field. Worst playoff performance top to bottom by a Bills team in the McDermott era. 

Both sides sucked that day no doubt. 

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

White

Hyde

Johnson

Poyer

Milano

 

next

LOL…. So you took my comment literally 🤣

 

I’m not suggesting players that had “All Pro” on their resume.  I mean player that currently were playing at an All Pro level.  

Hyde was not playing and was never named All Pro.  

 

Poyer was an All Pro in 2021.  2022 was the start of his decline and not playing the same level. 

 

Tre White coming off an ACL definitely was NOT playing at an elite level.  In fact this might have been his worst stretch with the Bills.  He was an All Pro in 2019 not in 2021

 

Taron Johnson was not All Pro in 2022.  He was named a 2nd team All Pro in 2023.  
 

Matt Milano WAS an All Pro in 2022 and had arguably his best season.

… So your statement of 5 All Pro players was wrong.  

 

 

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, ren1701 said:

Anybody that sits in a nickel zone for 80% of a game is going to get burned every year by decent qb's - sorry. that's just lazy coaching/planning. Doesn't matter the players, the scheme is not bad but it is not meant to be used all the time. If it  were me, I'd jumbo up, run the ball and send guys into the seams all day long, McVay gave out that blueprint btw as they amassed 427 yards but barley broke 300 against the 49ers.  

 

All I'm saying is this - after we spot the usual 10-14 points to Detroit like we do everybody else, and watch the usually 1st and nothing up the middle a few times from the O combined with the screen out to Samuel for -1 yard, I'm pretty sure 17 will be putting on the cape before half time... hope I am wrong

9ers run a very similar scheme to us defensively. Two high shells, Quarters coverage, Cover 3 fire zones when they want to bring pressure. Its the people, not the scheme.

[LABILLBACKER]

16 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Nuts, you were doing so well too-then you tried to use Skylar Thompson for your argument. Good try though 

Yeah tried to sneak one in there but should've known the brethren would call me out.

[Mr. WEO]

Rams are a mediocre Offense...

[ren1701]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

This logic is faulty for a few different reasons.  First you’re using the distributive property:

 

The Rams Scored 42 against the Bills + the Rams scored 12 against the 49ers = The Bills defense sucks.

 

It’s been proven time and time again that this doesn’t work in the NFL.  
 

To your point other point, I’d agree that the issues on defense start at DT and extend to the DL.   I’m all for Buffalo upgrading and I’d be shocked if that’s not a major focus of the offseason.

Distributive property IF it was just one game. Tell  you what, name one game in the payoffs we got the dub in that that defense won for us ... we'll wait

[JohnNord]

31 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Well I don’t think Beane is purposely drafting mediocre lineman - for example AJ Epenesa, Dewayne Carter were guys with draftable grades in the mid-rounds - but what was their ceiling supposed to be? 

Rousseau is playing well for an end of Round-1 defensive end.

 

Their big money shot was Von Miller and that has been derailed by injury and he’s old. You handed a 33 year old a 6-year contract. 

For the last two seasons the Bills have had little to no money to spend in Free Agency - so that leads to a collection of guys - Tim Settle, Austin Johnson, Dawaune Smoot, Casey Toohill, Poona Ford, they got a good year out of Leornard Floyd. 

 

Now picking 9th overall - Oliver over Jeff Simmons, Dexter Lawerence, Christian Wilkins is indisputable miss. That’s McDermotts scheme and not projecting well to the NFL level. 
 

They’ve had a thing for old DTs that they’re familiar with - Star L and DaQuan Jones - and once they identity a starter, it does seem to be that they want continuity for multiple seasons. 
 

This is why I think after this Playoff run - McDermott needs to be evaluated on a season by season basis if the goal is really the Super Bowl at OBD. 
 

I think the rest of 2024 and 2025 is more than fair enough and if he can not get it done, it’s time to try something else. 


 

 

 

Mostly agree.  But AJE was considered a fringe R1/R2 talent,  not a mid-rounder.  At one point, many mocks had him going in R1.  In fact Beane claimed he had a first round grade on him.  I wouldn’t call him a mid-rounder and his return has been decent though not great.  
 

You also failed the epic miss of Boogie Basham in Round 2.  
 

As far as Oliver he was ranked higher than most DT’s in 2018 with the exception of Quentin Williams.  At some point, Oliver was mocked to go #1.  The DT’s who were drafted after him all proved to be better players than him.  Besides it’s not like Oliver is a scrub.  He’s been inconsistent but has played well.  
 

Star Lotulelei was an epic fail as well.  Your called him an “old DT” but he was a 5th year pro when they signed him.  Beane and McDermott’s loyalty failed them.  They overpaid for his upside which never was realized.  It was a fail but not egregious.  
 

Daquan Jones is a different situation.  I’d put him in the same group as the other FA signing you mentioned.  They took a flier on mid-level free agent who outplayed his contract.  They brought him back based on his stellar 2023 run on a moderate deal. He’s never been able to get back to the level but I totally understand the signing.  

So while you made some good point here I think a lot is based on hindsight

Edited December 14 by JohnNord

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, TD716 said:

Please change up the defensive philosophy this off season . Defense feasts on average and below QB’s and offensive lines. This coupled with Josh gets you double digit win totals each year. In the playoffs you very rarely see below average. Good qb’s,with time, pick apart our defense. Also sick of mobile DT’s. Jeff Wright, Kyle Williams and most of our current ones come to mind. Please either draft or pickup a mountain for the middle to at least stop the run. 

Agreed 100%.  We need a couple 1 techs that weigh 330+.  Oliver hasn't worked out as a consistent player at 3 tech.

 

We need a DE that teams need to gameplan for, and we don't have  one.  

 

 

[ren1701]

13 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

9ers run a very similar scheme to us defensively. Two high shells, Quarters coverage, Cover 3 fire zones when they want to bring pressure. Its the people, not the scheme.

6-8??? yep - that would be the BIlls record to without 17 

 

Can't believe you guys are defending this scheme - unreal. Don't worry, in the payoffs this year I'm sure 5th's time a charm. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, ren1701 said:

Distributive property IF it was just one game. Tell  you what, name one game in the payoffs we got the dub in that that defense won for us ... we'll wait

Probably vs Ravens in ‘21. Nothing else stands out. 

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, ren1701 said:

Distributive property IF it was just one game. Tell  you what, name one game in the payoffs we got the dub in that that defense won for us ... we'll wait

Playoff game vs.  Baltimore in 2021 where the offense scores 10 points and Taron’s pick 6 won the game?  

 

I’m sure you’ll tell me this game doesn’t count.

 

If your point is that the defense needs to step up more in the playoffs, I’d 100% agree with you. 

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Agreed 100%.  We need a couple 1 techs that weigh 330+.  Oliver hasn't worked out as a consistent player at 3 tech.

 

We need a DE that teams need to gameplan for, and we don't have  one.  

 

 

They need to commit to manufacturing pass rush vs the better QBs in the playoffs. McD seems reluctant or even unwilling to do this. Sean should remember the definition of insanity in this case. 

[ren1701]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

Playoff game vs.  Baltimore in 2021 where the offense scores 10 points and Taron’s pick 6 won the game?  

 

I’m sure you’ll tell me this game doesn’t count.

 

If your point is that the defense needs to step up more in the playoffs, I’d 100% agree with you. 

 

 

 

My bad, should of saif Lombardi;s. Let's just hroww King Henry in to the mix this year and see what happens. KC isn't just doing it with the O - their defense is pretty solid as well.  

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

They need to commit to manufacturing pass rush vs the better QBs in the playoffs. McD seems reluctant or even unwilling to do this. Sean should remember the definition of insanity in this case. 

 

This is true to a degree but the Bills DL also has to win their matchups and make plays.  This hasn’t been the case either 

1 minute ago, ren1701 said:

My bad, should of saif Lombardi;s. Let's just hroww King Henry in to the mix this year and see what happens. KC isn't just doing it with the O - their defense is pretty solid as well.  

I don’t understand what you are saying.  You asked for a time when the defense won a playoff game.  I gave you one.  

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, ren1701 said:

6-8??? yep - that would be the BIlls record to without 17 

 

Can't believe you guys are defending this scheme - unreal. Don't worry, in the payoffs this year I'm sure 5th's time a charm. 

Niners D scheme hasn’t changed - it got them to two Superbowls and it probably should have been 3 if they had a QB for championship game vs Eagles. They’ve had a ton of injuries this year- that 6-8 record is a result mostly of that. They’ve had better defensive players than Buffalo- scheme only gets you so far. 

3 minutes ago, ren1701 said:

My bad, should have saif Lombardi;s. Let's just hroww King Henry in to the mix this year and see what happens. KC isn't just doing it with the O - their defense is pretty solid as well.  

KC’s offensive has been middling all year. Their Defense is elite and responsible for most of their wins this season. 

[HoofHearted]

8 minutes ago, ren1701 said:

6-8??? yep - that would be the BIlls record to without 17 

 

Can't believe you guys are defending this scheme - unreal. Don't worry, in the payoffs this year I'm sure 5th's time a charm. 

You’re the one who used them as the example of a defense who shut down the Rams offense lol. Maybe next time if you’re trying to prove a point that our scheme sucks pick an example of a team that runs a different scheme from us.

[ren1701]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

 

This is true to a degree but the Bills DL also has to win their matchups and make plays.  This hasn’t been the case either 

Not arguing that, just saying, in my original premise, the scheme is sound, just not 80% of the game. it's unrealistic and run it's course- no different then the no huddle. Offense wins games, defense wins championships - not regular season or games against bad teams. Until that defense does that - it's bull you know what.