Defense is built to stop average and below offenses.

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

This season their offense hasn't been good. It's their defense that's carrying them. 

The Rams offense hasn’t been good either and they couldn’t do anything against them.  More proof that the logic in this thread isn’t quite there 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

So you’re discounting the fact that Buffalo held Kansas City to 21 points a few weeks ago?  It seems to defeat the original premise of this thread, unless you feel that offense with Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce is “average to below.”

I discount all regular season meetings with KC.  Their heart and motivation are no where near the level it is in the playoffs.  They flip the switch in the playoffs and dominate us.

[BillsPride12]

32 minutes ago, TD716 said:

Even if we had a game breaker they would only play 50% of the time due to our D-line rotation. Gotta get Epenesa his snaps against the run

You gotta think if we had a true blue chipper McDermott wouldn't be that stupid to stick to that rotation BS

[Returntoglory]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

So, they got lucky against the Chiefs?

Not the same Offense as in the past. 

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I think the topic here is the Bills’ defense’s ability to stop (or even slow down) good offenses in the playoffs.  Last January’s result is arguably more relevant than the one this November, especially given the history between these two teams.  And yes, the Chiefs’ offense this year has been at best average.

So a game that happened 11 months ago is  more relevant than one that happened 3 weeks ago.  The logic here is laughable 🤣

 

Where I will agree with you is that yes, the playoffs are a new season.  And we need stronger performances on defense.

 

BTW, Kansas City scored > 21 points in the majority of their games this season.  And as I stated the earlier - the Rams offense hasn’t exactly been prolific this season.  So again the point of this thread isn’t incorrect. 

[Mikie2times]

It's more about the defense struggling in neutral game scripts which are more likely to occur vs good teams. When we jump ahead and force teams into passing situations it immediately covers our biggest weakness with the defense which is the running game. A lot of times we see average to below average QB's struggling against our zone in a situation where they completely abandon the run.  We feast, it contributes to a stat profile that is very inflated compared to what the defense would normally do. Then come postseason times when we get destroyed it really looks like we just don't know what we are doing. But I would argue it was there all along. 

 

We have allowed 140 yards on the ground 3 times this year. We snuck out a win vs Miami on a 60 yarder, beat the 49ers in the snow, and lost to Baltimore.  We are 6-11 since 2021 when we allow more than 140 yards rushing. The only playoff games we did not allow 140 yards rushing in the McD era were the AFC Championship vs KC and the 3 wild card games in 2021, 2022, and 2023. So when we say, will this happen again this season in the playoffs? Well, ya. It most certainly will happen and when it does it is not a good split for us. I don't believe we have a defensive system that is capable of sustained success in the postseason and I put that directly on McD. 

[JohnNord]

Just now, Returntoglory said:

Not the same Offense as in the past. 

It basically IS the same offense.  Same scheme, playcalling, personnel.  
 

The difference is no Pacheco and Rice - but they did have Hopkins and Worthy.

[TD716]

3 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

I don't think that's fair.  At the time of the draft we desperately needed another WR.  This was before we landed Cooper.  But going forward we are pretty solid at receiver right now and absolutely should shift our top priority to a legit 1Tech or Edge Rusher

Disagree, yes we lost Diggs but he did nothing the last half of last season.  And Gabe should have been gone long time ago. We had shakir and Kincaid coming back. Bills knew they needed a 1T that’s why they brought in Joseph mid year and then they didn’t address 1T going into this year?????

[LABILLBACKER]

4 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

You gotta think if we had a true blue chipper McDermott wouldn't be that stupid to stick to that rotation BS

Yeah he would

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

The Chiefs trampled our defense in the home playoff game last year….8 yards per play!

That was pretty much a shell of the Bills defense with many key starters out. 

[TD716]

5 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

You gotta think if we had a true blue chipper McDermott wouldn't be that stupid to stick to that rotation BS

Rousseau

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

That was pretty much a shell of the Bills defense with many key starters out. 

Now that is true…

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

It's more about the defense struggling in neutral game scripts which are more likely to occur vs good teams. When we jump ahead and force teams into passing situations it immediately covers our biggest weakness with the defense which is the running game. A lot of times we see average to below average QB's struggling against our zone in a situation where they completely abandon the run.  We feast, it contributes to a stat profile that is very inflated compared to what the defense would normally do. Then come postseason times when we get destroyed it really looks like we just don't know what we are doing. But I would argue it was there all along. 

 

We have allowed 140 yards on the ground 3 times this year. We snuck out a win vs Miami on a 60 yarder, beat the 49ers in the snow, and lost to Baltimore.  We are 6-11 since 2021 when we allow more than 140 yards rushing. The only playoff games we did not allow 140 yards rushing in the McD era were the AFC Championship vs KC and the 3 wild card games in 2021, 2022, and 2023. So when we say, will this happen again this season in the playoffs? Well, ya. It most certainly will happen and when it does it is not a good split for us. I don't believe we have a defensive system that is capable of sustained success in the postseason and I put that directly on McD. 

Their level variance year-to-year on defense is high.  Buffalo’s has been relatively consistent over the past 5 years or so.  I don’t think you can say they haven’t had “sustained success,” because just about every metric would prove otherwise.  
 

Their problem is they haven’t beaten Kansas City and Patrick Mahomes in January when it matters.  That’s it.  

[Boatdrinks]

I don’t know if that’s what the Bills defense is “ built” to stop - no GM/ front office thinks that way. I think the scheme - X’s and O’s -is fine. The Bills lack a couple of elite defenders - the Jimmys and Joes- to be a dominant unit. 

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Now that is true…

Your point is valid- the Bills defense has failed them in the playoffs. That game is probably not the best example. Offensively I think the game plan was a sound one: play keep away from Mahomes Kelce and Co. It darn near worked. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

So, they got lucky against the Chiefs?

Something flips for the Chiefs in the playoffs lately.

 

A by “something” I mean the refs stop calling offensive line holding. 
 

The OP is 100% correct. 
 

This Defense is designed to slow down/stop 70-80% of the league, even without any elite players.   
 

And that’s not nothing.. look at the Bengals this year. 
 

But when we face a good offense, led by a QB who’s locked in, it’s the same song and dance.  
 

Case and point.. we accepted a penalty to get the Rams to 3rd and 17, and our defensive philosophy was not to stop them — instead, it was to play safe, allow underneath, rally and tackle, then see if the Rams make a mistake.  
 

They didn’t, because their offense is good and Stafford was locked in.  
 

4th and 5, and we give it up. 
 

Forcing long drives and hoping Mahomes/Chiefs make a mistake in the playoffs is not a strategy.  But, too often, that’s how we play it.. especially when refs are blind to offensive holding in the postseason. 

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, TD716 said:

Rousseau

I’ve seen Rousseau compared to Tremaine Edmunds, which I would disagree with because I think Groot makes some of the splash plays that Edmunds never did.  
 

But I can see the Bills in a similar position in the offseason.  While Rousseau is a good players and does a lot of things that don’t show on the stat sheet like setting the edge - does the team want to pay him top 5 money?  Because he’ll likely get that on the open market.

 

Does his solid production warrant a contract of an elite player?  

[Mikie2times]

7 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Their level variance year-to-year on defense is high.  Buffalo’s has been relatively consistent over the past 5 years or so.  I don’t think you can say they haven’t had “sustained success,” because just about every metric would prove otherwise.  
 

Their problem is they haven’t beaten Kansas City and Patrick Mahomes in January when it matters.  That’s it.  

Except that's just not true

• The Colts in 2020 had the 3rd highest EPA facing us of the entire season in the playoffs
• The Chiefs in 2020 had the 1st highest EPA facing us of the entire season in the playoffs
• The Chiefs in 2021 had the 3rd highest EPA facing us of the entire season in the playoffs
• The Bengals in 2022 had the 3rd highest EPA facing us of the entire season in the playoffs
• The Chiefs in 2023 had the 5th highest EPA facing us of the entire season in the playoffs

So we have given 3 separate teams some of the best offensive performances they had all year vs us in the playoffs. Then yes, to your point, we have given KC some of the best offensive performances they have had in multiple seasons. 

Edited December 14 by Mikie2times

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I don’t know if that’s what the Bills defense is “ built” to stop - no GM/ front office thinks that way. I think the scheme - X’s and O’s -is fine. The Bills lack a couple of elite defenders - the Jimmys and Joes- to be a dominant unit. 

Your point is valid- the Bills defense has failed them in the playoffs. That game is probably not the best example. Offensively I think the game plan was a sound one: play keep away from Mahomes Kelce and Co. It darn near worked. 

They need 1 elite level talent on talent which they’ve never really had throughout McDermott’s tenure.  
 

I guess the closest would be Milano at his peak or pre-injury Von Miller.  

[LABILLBACKER]

7 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Their level variance year-to-year on defense is high.  Buffalo’s has been relatively consistent over the past 5 years or so.  I don’t think you can say they haven’t had “sustained success,” because just about every metric would prove otherwise.  
 

Their problem is they haven’t beaten Kansas City and Patrick Mahomes in January when it matters.  That’s it.  

It's not just KC & Mahomes. This defense got destroyed by Cincy and Burrow. Even Skylar Thompson made us sweat.  Where are the metrics there?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

They need 1 elite level talent on talent which they’ve never really had throughout McDermott’s tenure.  
 

I guess the closest would be Milano at his peak or pre-injury Von Miller.  

Absolutely ridiculous 

 

Multiple all pros in the form of Hyde, White, Milano, and poyer