Defense is built to stop average and below offenses.

[JohnNord]

10 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

Chiefs are 1 of only 5 teams to not have scored 30 points this season.  The other 4 (Jets, Patriots, Raiders, Giants) have combines record of 10-42.  Their offense has been bad this year.

No that is wrong.  Chiefs scored 30 points against Tampa Bay on 11/04 and then against Carolina on 11/24.

 

Where is everyone getting this misinformation from?

 

https://www.chiefs.com/schedule/

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

No, the defense allowed 13 points over the next 3 quarters.  Both times the Bills scored in that game, the predictably meek playoff defense of the Bills rolled out the red carpet, and allowed Bengals scores.

 

I'm not going to foolishly defend the Bills' offense in that game - they were bad.  But this thread is about the playoff defense, and as you admitted "the defense completely sucked that game".

Coming from the King of Misinformation and Irrelevance.

 

 

First, John is a terrific poster, even when I disagree with him, which is pretty often. Your attack here is complete nonsense.

 

And second, like it or not, that Bengals game was a Bills team that wasn't at the end of their rope, they'd gone beyond the end. Both sides of the ball played OK but not nearly up their normal standard. 

 

You look at the quotes after that game and you see multiple guy saying we just didn't have any juice and that the energy just wasn't there. Which made sense. That season was wildly bizarre. One of their players died on the field. Another (Knox), had a college age brother die. They had a situation happen to a team for the first time in NFL history, three away games in a row in a total of twelve days. A mass shooter in the city with a racial motive. Dozens of people killed by the weather in Buffalo. And there was plenty more. It wasn't a normal season. They had reached the end of their emotional reserves. And it showed.

 

Having said that, the offense had far less reason to play badly than the defense. The D had been devastated by injuries, with plenty out and plenty playing through injuries that simply didn't allow them to play up to their own standards. The offense was pretty healthy. Neither played well, but again the defense had far better reason for not doing so.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

26 minutes ago, folz said:

 

Believe me, I do understand where you guys are coming from in a way, I just think that too many people ignore too much context. 

 

To the bolded:

-Well, we won the Colts game and held them to 24 points despite the yardage. Their season average was 28.2 points/game.

-The Texans season average was 24.1 points/game. They scored 22 points against us. And it took a bad fumble by a raw Josh Allen, an overturned TD by the sky refs on a mistake by the Texans, and a lucky, miracle play with Watson escaping the sandwich sack for them to win (in overtime, btw)---not sure that I can put any of that on coaching.

-I know you won't agree, but no NFL team in history would have won that Bengals playoff game if they had been through what the Bills had been through that season and the amount of injuries they had on top of it (well maybe the Brady/Belichick Pats would, but that's it). The Bengals season average was 26.1 points per game. We allowed them 27.

-The AFC championship game vs. the Chiefs, we just weren't ready yet, as a team. Didn't help that our WR corps was severely banged up and the refs let KC maul our receivers, while our defense couldn't breathe on their receivers. But either way, KC was the better team at that point. Their season average was 29.6 points/game. we gave up 38 points.

-The other two Chiefs games, our defense was ravaged by injuries. So, the fact that at the end of regulation of both games combined, the Chiefs had only 3 points more than us is actually pretty impressive (despite the losses). 

 

So, when you really break things down, it always comes down to the same thing...it's not really McDermott or his defense in the playoffs...it's just the damn Chiefs. And yet, we have played them more closely than any other team in the league, with a 4-4 overall record and two of their wins (in the playoffs) being intensely close, last second wins against a decimated Bills defense. Maybe...MAYBE...we could have pulled out the 13 seconds game with different decisions by the coach, but honestly, how many of the other playoff losses were really due to bad coaching? 

 

Think about this. Our playoff record under McDermott is 5-6. At the end of regulation in 4 of the 6 games combined, the Bills were down by 10 points. 10 points over 4 games (obviously two of those games went into overtime). Do you realize how close Sean is to a 9-2 playoff record? 10 points across 4 games. Subtract the JAX game and it's 3 points total over three games (HOU, KC, KC) for an 8-3 playoff record. I just believe that we are closer than some of you guys think. We just need a year where some of the bounces go our way.

[Obviously his record wouldn't be 9-2 or 8-3 if he won those games because the Bills would have played further games, so more wins and/or losses would have been added to that.]

 

 

Didn't call any of those QBs elite. The bar that was set by the posts I was responding to (including this thread's OP) was above average. To me that meant say a top 16 QB. I would argue that most people would put those guys in the top half of the league for most of their careers. You could question Purdy because he's so young, but did you see his stats from last year? In fact, in 2023, Tua led the league in passing, Dak was 3rd, and Purdy was 5th. Even Carr was still 13th. How about passing TDs last year? Dak was #1, Purdy #3, Tua #5, and Carr #10. Are you really telling me those QBs are average at best? Have you seen some of the other QB play in this league?

 

The only QBs I called elite were Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Jackson, and Burrow. And Sean still has 8 wins against those QBs (with three of the losses to those QBs being by the narrowest of margins).

That is a rosy way to look at the Bills Playoff games man.

 

[Billsflyer12]

34 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

No that is wrong.  Chiefs scored 30 points against Tampa Bay on 11/04 and then against Carolina on 11/24.

 

Where is everyone getting this misinformation from?

 

https://www.chiefs.com/schedule/

They are one of the 5 teams that haven’t scored MORE than 30.  They scored 30 exactly those 2 games.  A little tricky with the numbers.

 

Many of their offensive numbers are very mid for the season so far.  BTW, other then scoring so are the Bills offensive numbers.

Edited December 15 by Billsflyer12

[JohnNord]

11 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

They are one of the 5 teams that haven’t scored MORE than 30.  They scored 30 exactly those 2 games.  A little tricky with the numbers.

 

Many of their offensive numbers are very mid for the season so far.  BTW, other then scoring so are the Bills offensive numbers.

Here’s what you wrote:

 

Chiefs are 1 of only 5 teams to not have scored 30 points this season.  The other 4 (Jets, Patriots, Raiders, Giants) have combines record of 10-42.  Their offense has been bad this year.

 

Please tell me where you said MORE than 30 points?

 

How are the Bills offensive numbers mid?  Last time I checked Detroit and Buffalo were 1 and 2 for EPA per play on offense.  
 

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

We’re never gonna see eye to eye on this topic.  In a few months, we should have a better idea on where this argument stands. 
 

In all honesty, I have to say it’s been fun going back and forth.  I appreciate how you’ve stuck to debating the issues w/o resorting to insults etc.

You have been antagonistic enough, I’m sure you can handle a little poke. No, we won’t agree. That’s fine. Go Bills as usual. 🦬🦬

[Thurman#1]

 

3 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-nfl-playoffs-injury-report-bengals-rule-out-two-offensive-linemen-vs-bills-in-divisional-round/amp/
 

Let’s not forget, 3 of 5 starting offensive lineman for the Bengals didn’t even play in that game 

 

 

Somehow the people who always bring that up manage conveniently to forget that the Bills D-line was also ripped to shreds.

 

Von was out. That was the year the D looked absolutely ferocious at the beginning of the year with a healthy Von, until his injury.

 

DaQuan, out.

 

Our two best DLs, by far. Out.

 

This allowed them to double Oliver all game long.

 

After Rousseau and Oliver the rest of the DL snaps looked like this:

 

Tim Settle 53%

Shaq Lawson 48%

Epenesa 43%

Eli Ankou 37%

Boogie Basham 31%

Jordan Phillips 25%

Kingsley Jonathan 16%

 

That's not murderer's row. So enough with how bad the Bengals OL had it. We had it just as bad. And again, when healthy at the beginning of the year, that DL was playing absolutely dominant. When a pressure was needed they seemed to get one.

 

 

Edited December 15 by Thurman#1

[Mikie2times]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Somehow the people who always bring that up manage conveniently to forget that the Bills D-line was also ripped to shreds.

 

Von was out. That was the year the D looked absolutely ferocious at the beginning of the year with a healthy Von, until his injury.

 

DaQuan, out.

 

Our two best DLs, by far. Out.

 

This allowed them to double Oliver all game long.

 

After Rousseau and Oliver the rest of the DL snaps looked like this:

 

Tim Settle 53%

Shaq Lawson 48%

Epenesa 43%

Eli Ankou 37%

Boogie Basham 31%

Jordan Phillips 25%

Kingsley Jonathan 16%

 

That's not murderer' row. So enough with how bad the Bengals OL had it. We had it just as bad. And again, when healthy at the beginning of the year, that DL was playing absolutely dominant.

 

 

How can I forget the Bills defensive injuries. It’s the most talked about subject in the history of this web site. You would think they’re the only team in NFL history that deals with it.
 

The only way McD can actually get a degree of blame with some is if they field a 100% healthy roster void of a single missing player and we have not dealt with any emotional challenges in a short period of time. I’m sure we will have a new one after this season. Not sure what it is just yet.

[Thurman#1]

 

4 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

How can I forget the Bills defensive injuries. It’s the most talked about subject in the history of this web site. You would think they’re the only team in NFL history that deals with it.
 

The only way McD can actually get a degree of blame with some is if they field a 100% healthy roster void of a single missing player and we have not dealt with any emotional challenges in a short period of time. I’m sure we will have a new one after this season. Not sure what it is just yet.

 

 

Ah, we shouldn't talk about defensive injuries because it doesn't fit your narrative, right? Sorry, I forgot.

 

But, um, just remind me, who took a whole post just to remind us of Cincy's OL injuries? That was, um, you, wasn't it? About two posts above?

 

So we should avoid talking about injuries when it's the Bills and doesn't fit your narrative, but talking about opponent injuries is totally OK and should be encouraged? Have I got that right?

 

 

 

Edited December 15 by Thurman#1

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Ah, we shouldn't talk about defensive injuries because it doesn't fit your narrative, right? Sorry, I forgot.

 

But, um, just remind me, who took a whole post just to remind us of Cincy's OL injuries? That was, um, you, wasn't it? About two posts above?

 

So we should avoid talking about injuries when it's the Bills and doesn't fit your narrative, but talking about opponent injuries is totally OK and should be encouraged? Have I got that right?

 

 

 

It fits my narrative? About 100 posts discuss the Bills emotional fatigue and injuries in the Bengals game to one post that mentions the Bengals. It isn’t even discussed. I’m sorry if my attempt at a shred of balance disrupts things for you.

[Thurman#1]

37 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It fits my narrative? About 100 posts discuss the Bills emotional fatigue and injuries in the Bengals game to one post that mentions the Bengals. It isn’t even discussed. I’m sorry if my attempt at a shred of balance disrupts things for you.

 

 

Yes, it fits your narrative. You want to stress everything negative about this D and ignore positive things.

 

So yeah, you feel free and happy reminding everyone about the Bengals injuries, but reminding anyone about the Bills injuries, no, no, we shouldn't do that. Let's not talk about it.

 

And yeah, both of those perfectly fit your narrative. Again, you are the one who brought up those Bengals OL injuries. And the one criticizing people for bringing up the Bills DL injuries. Saying both is a logical contradiction. But a guy with a narrative often doesn't let logical contradictions hold him back.

 

Oh, and of course we talk more about Bills injuries than Bengals injuries. This is a Bills board. Of course we talk about the Bills more.

 

 

Edited December 15 by Thurman#1

[RunTheBall]

This Lions game will tell us a lot about our D and the D-line especially.  They have a dominant O-line and 2 great RBs. I don’t need a dominant shut down performance. I need them to slow down Detroit’s running game enough to allow our offense to stay on script and have close to equal time of possession. If we can do that, I’ll be more optimistic going into to the playoffs. Playing the Jets and the Pats* isn’t going to tell us much. I wouldn’t be surprised if we dropped one of those as well if our playoff seeding is essentially set and we rest guys at the end. 

[JimBob2232]

21 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Finding a Bruce Smith or Myles Garrett is just as rare as finding a franchise QB. It's not realistic 

 

Better expectations would be a Sean Jones, Aaron Schobel, Hugh Douglas type dlineman 

 

We have Von Mller!

[TheFunPolice]

Mathematically, that's most offenses! 

[Kelly to Allen]

5 minutes ago, JimBob2232 said:

 

We have Von Mller!

Ppl keep discounting this and it's weird 

[Bermuda Triangle]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

First, John is a terrific poster, even when I disagree with him, which is pretty often. Your attack here is complete nonsense.

 

And second, like it or not, that Bengals game was a Bills team that wasn't at the end of their rope, they'd gone beyond the end. Both sides of the ball played OK but not nearly up their normal standard. 

 

You look at the quotes after that game and you see multiple guy saying we just didn't have any juice and that the energy just wasn't there. Which made sense. That season was wildly bizarre. One of their players died on the field. Another (Knox), had a college age brother die. They had a situation happen to a team for the first time in NFL history, three away games in a row in a total of twelve days. A mass shooter in the city with a racial motive. Dozens of people killed by the weather in Buffalo. And there was plenty more. It wasn't a normal season. They had reached the end of their emotional reserves. And it showed.

 

Having said that, the offense had far less reason to play badly than the defense. The D had been devastated by injuries, with plenty out and plenty playing through injuries that simply didn't allow them to play up to their own standards. The offense was pretty healthy. Neither played well, but again the defense had far better reason for not doing so.

He has a pretty antagonizing tone to posters with whom he disagrees.  

 

If we're going to excuse the subpar play of the Bills' defense in the Bengals game on external factors, then I guess the offense should get a similar pass.  I'm not sure what the excuse is for the defense in any of the Chiefs post-season laydowns, or in the Colts game, though.  And last I checked, this thread is about the Bills' defense (and not about the offense or ST).

[Kelly to Allen]

We'll see today. 

 

I think the true buffalo 🦬 spirit is coming out today. The defense was embarrassed last week in a let down. 

 

This is is going to be awesome 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

We'll see today. 

 

I think the true buffalo 🦬 spirit is coming out today. The defense was embarrassed last week in a let down. 

 

This is is going to be awesome 

IF this comes to fruition, that Rams loss could be the best thing that ever happened to this team as that loss has typically occurred when there isn’t a next week. 

[Matt_In_NH]

11 hours ago, JohnNord said:

No that is wrong.  Chiefs scored 30 points against Tampa Bay on 11/04 and then against Carolina on 11/24.

 

Where is everyone getting this misinformation from?

 

https://www.chiefs.com/schedule/

There goes the narrative……

[Cash]

We should run one of those defenses that shuts down elite offenses every time. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t just run that kind of defense - they must be much dumber than me.