Defense is built to stop average and below offenses.

[SoonerBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

They need to commit to manufacturing pass rush vs the better QBs in the playoffs. McD seems reluctant or even unwilling to do this. Sean should remember the definition of insanity in this case. 

At some point, if Sean can't get to a Superbowl then he has to go.

 

Allen has made the changes everyone asked, he is playing great ball, and it's time to quit wasting that.

 

We need a new philosophy on Defense and I don't see it happening with McDermott 

[ren1701]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Niners D scheme hasn’t changed - it got them to two Superbowls and it probably should have been 3 if they had a QB for championship game vs Eagles. They’ve had a ton of injuries this year- that 6-8 record is a result mostly of that. They’ve had better defensive players than Buffalo- scheme only gets you so far. 

KC’s offensive has been middling all year. Their Defense is elite and responsible for most of their wins this season. 

Funny ... can't remember Purdy showing off his ring but that's none of my busines,

Hey, if "good enough" every year is you bar, have at it -all good. 

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, ren1701 said:

Not arguing that, just saying, in my original premise, the scheme is sound, just not 80% of the game. it's unrealistic and run it's course- no different then the no huddle. Offense wins games, defense wins championships - not regular season or games against bad teams. Until that defense does that - it's bull you know what. 

I just think there’s a lot more factors for the playoff losses than the defense.  
 

I do feel playing against a solid scheme/QB tomorrow will be a good test going into the playoffs.

 

A win would be nice but staying healthy is more important 

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, ren1701 said:

Funny ... can't remember Purdy showing off his ring but that's none of my busines,

Hey, if "good enough" every year is you bar, have at it -all good. 

If good enough means reaching the Super Bowl twice with Josh Allen starting at QB in the big game I’ll take it. 

[ren1701]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I just think there’s a lot more factors for the playoff losses than the defense.  
 

I do feel playing against a solid scheme/QB tomorrow will be a good test going into the playoffs.

 

A win would be nice but staying healthy is more important 

 

Really?? 

So in EVERY playoff loss - when did 17 leave it on the field, with the lead mind you, and the D take care of busines? I'll give you 13 seconds to think about it. You can nit pick what I'm sayign all you want but doesn't change the fact that no Lombardi's are at OBD and I'm pretty sure whe you your O is averaging 32 ppoint s a game, your qb has 6 TD's, you win games - unless you are the Bills. What's that term "Billsey"?

 

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

If good enough means reaching the Super Bowl twice with Josh Allen starting at QB in the big game I’ll take it. 

I ASSURE you, nobody from the 90's / gen X is saying that. Until you live through that heartbreak, you have no idea what you are saying - sorry. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

 

Mostly agree.  But AJE was considered a fringe R1/R2 talent,  not a mid-rounder.  At one point, many mocks had him going in R1.  In fact Beane claimed he had a first round grade on him.  I wouldn’t call him a mid-rounder and his return has been decent though not great.  
 

You also failed the epic miss of Boogie Basham in Round 2.  
 

As far as Oliver he was ranked higher than most DT’s in 2018 with the exception of Quentin Williams.  At some point, Oliver was mocked to go #1.  The DT’s who were drafted after him all proved to be better players than him.  Besides it’s not like Oliver is a scrub.  He’s been inconsistent but has played well.  
 

Star Lotulelei was an epic fail as well.  Your called him an “old DT” but he was a 5th year pro when they signed him.  Beane and McDermott’s loyalty failed them.  They overpaid for his upside which never was realized.  It was a fail but not egregious.  
 

Daquan Jones is a different situation.  I’d put him in the same group as the other FA signing you mentioned.  They took a flier on mid-level free agent who outplayed his contract.  They brought him back based on his stellar 2023 run on a moderate deal. He’s never been able to get back to the level but I totally understand the signing.  

So while you made some good point here I think a lot is based on hindsight

Star L was 29 years old when he got to the Bills. Joined the league at 24 years old. 
 

Daquan was 31 when he got to Buffalo.

 

My point stands - old veterans.

 

AJ Epenesa was not thought of as a first rounder after that 5.04-40 yard dash and sluggish combine, if he ever was, he was taken where most analysts had him pegged.

 

What is your point here? 
 

My point here is that all these “investments” that the Bills have made in the defensive line - none of them have fans, people around the league went Oh Whoa, look out the Bills just added - Austin Johnson, the Bills just drafted Javon Solomon. 
 

Rousseau is their best drafted Defensive Lineman - drafted in a group with Jalen Phillips who fell because of severe injuries at Miami, Oweh of the Ravens as 2nd half Round 1 DEs.

 

Oliver is pretty good maybe, and after that it’s a lot of guys - and that’s not based on hindsight - nobody going in to Boogie Basham was going to be a game changer - his comp was Courtney Upshaw - an 8-sack per year guy, heavy handed, run based defensive end. 
 

What is your point? My point is Beane has had added a whole lot of average based on the cap and where the Bills have been slotted in the draft, and the two significant swings - Oliver and Von were not no brainers when he made them. 
 

Oliver was a poor man’s Aaron Donald. 
 

Read his scouting profile and make this case he was a can’t miss player:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ed-oliver/32004f4c-4929-0385-df1c-0f8e40559b5a

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

At some point, if Sean can't get to a Superbowl then he has to go.

 

Allen has made the changes everyone asked, he is playing great ball, and it's time to quit wasting that.

 

We need a new philosophy on Defense and I don't see it happening with McDermott 

I can’t disagree with this premise. I hope it’s unnecessary because the Bills won the Super Bowl, but if not it’s the number 1 issue going forward. Now, that only matters if T-Pegs sees it the same way. We as fans can’t do anything about it. The career of the greatest QB - and maybe greatest player to ever don a Bills uniform cannot be wasted. 

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, ren1701 said:

 

Really?? 

So in EVERY playoff loss - when did 17 leave it on the field, with the lead mind you, and the D take care of busines? I'll give you 13 seconds to think about it. You can nit pick what I'm sayign all you want but doesn't change the fact that no Lombardi's are at OBD and I'm pretty sure whe you your O is averaging 32 ppoint s a game, your qb has 6 TD's, you win games - unless you are the Bills. What's that term "Billsey"?

 

I ASSURE you, nobody from the 90's / gen X is saying that. Until you live through that heartbreak, you have no idea what you are saying - sorry. 

I’m a gen Xer and lived ( plus died a little bit) through all 4 Super Bowl runs and losses. I agree younger Bills fans than me- or other Gen Xers -might see it differently. 

[ren1701]

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I’m a gen Xer and lived ( plus died a little bit) through all 4 Super Bowl runs and losses. I agree younger Bills fans than me- or other Gen Xers -might see it differently. 

Agrred- died a little myself. 25 should have never come down to a FG anyways. I was no fan of Levy either, terrible coach but kept all those egos in check I guess but I have no doubt, with a Parcels or a JJ we had pulled a few of those home and I feel we are in that spot now. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, ren1701 said:

Agrred- died a little myself. 25 should have never come down to a FG anyways. I was no fan of Levy either, terrible coach but kept all those egos in check I guess but I have no doubt, with a Parcels or a JJ we had pulled a few of those home and I feel we are in that spot now. 

I liked Marv- but he was far more of a delegator than a specialist. That was less effective as he lost top coordinators. 
   The SB Bills greatest issue was DL based as well- they lacked a great run stuffing NT. This was hugely critical in the NFL game at that time. Perhaps if they had landed Ted Washington in the ‘91 draft like they wanted things may have been different. Polian should have moved up to get him. Anyway, I’m not sure that the Bills need a new HC with Allen at QB- but the defense needs to be better in the playoffs. We’ll see if they can go in with a pretty healthy group and close the deal this time. 

[T.E.]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Need a D line that looks like this during the Allen era and we will win multiple SBs

 

The current D line only looked close to this pre Von injury

 

I miss those Jim Schwartz and even Rex Ryan defenses a lot. Can't stand this reactive, bend-and-sometimes-break Cover Two crap we play right now that results in zero pass rush and virtually no blitzing. It's pathetically unaggressive.

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, T.E. said:

I miss those Jim Schwartz and even Rex Ryan defenses a lot. Can't stand this reactive, bend-and-sometimes-break Cover Two crap we play right now that results in zero pass rush and virtually no blitzing. It's pathetically unaggressive.

 

I think with Babbich and McD we are - we have the luxury of not showing much on tape right now bc we are close to locking up the 2 seed - we aren’t catching KC.  

 

 

My point was that front 4 was nasty.  It didn’t need to blitz often cuz those guys got home.  
 

Peak Hughes and Mario.  Kyle.  Legit awesome.  
 

We don’t have anything close to that - that clip was against a GB line that was a good Oline.  
 

We feast on garbage Olines.  Vanish vs good to great ones unless we bring the blitzes.  
 

Now maybe those Schwarz teams were coached differently.  I just the think the Dline talent now compared to that team is bad.  
 

Oliver and Rousseau have got to step up.  

[LABILLBACKER]

16 minutes ago, T.E. said:

I miss those Jim Schwartz and even Rex Ryan defenses a lot. Can't stand this reactive, bend-and-sometimes-break Cover Two crap we play right now that results in zero pass rush and virtually no blitzing. It's pathetically unaggressive.

Ben Johnson HC

Jim Schwartz  DC

.....would be amazing...

[Boatdrinks]

12 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I think with Babbich and McD we are - we have the luxury of not showing much on tape right now bc we are close to locking up the 2 seed - we aren’t catching KC.  

 

 

My point was that front 4 was nasty.  It didn’t need to blitz often cuz those guys got home.  
 

Peak Hughes and Mario.  Kyle.  Legit awesome.  
 

We don’t have anything close to that - that clip was against a GB line that was a good Oline.  
 

We feast on garbage Olines.  Vanish vs good to great ones unless we bring the blitzes.  
 

Now maybe those Schwarz teams were coached differently.  I just the think the Dline talent now compared to that team is bad.  
 

Oliver and Rousseau have got to step up.  

Nowhere near the pass rush ability of those teams right now. Regardless of scheme. McD and Co have to be willing to throw some different wrinkles at the better QBs / OC’s they will see in the playoffs rather than giving just what they expected. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

49 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

You’re the one who used them as the example of a defense who shut down the Rams offense lol. Maybe next time if you’re trying to prove a point that our scheme sucks pick an example of a team that runs a different scheme from us.

Setting this aside - when you turn on the TV Sunday - what do you expect to see?

 

I expect this:

 

Epenesa-Oliver-DaQuan-Rousseau

 

Bernard-Milano

 

Benford-Johnson-Ingram

 

Cam Lewis-Cole Bishop

 

 

And I think you’ll see corners 8-10 yards off, I think you’ll see Johnson motioning out to Milano right before the snap, a pass rush that gets stonewalled, a quick pass to St. Brown for 9 yards where the Bills rally And tackle. Then you’ll see Montgomery plow for 8 yards and a first down and you’ll ask yourself where are our linebackers because the safeties will have to come up and tackle. 

It will be interesting - 

 

Last week the Bills faced 42 runs, 9 of them were for 0 or negative yards, and a long of 12 yards - so they slowed the run. 20-81 in the first half, 16-45 in the 2nd half. 

 

A whole of Nickel, with soft coverage, depending on Johnson to lock the slot and be a linebacker on runs? 

 

And the big scheme wrinkle is….

 

 

[BananaB]

I think someone said it in another thread, McD likes knowledge over physical ability. Just eliminate the big plays, thst all he wants. Gonna have games like last week when we play better opponents, luckily we don’t play them every week. 

[Maine-iac]

15 minutes ago, T.E. said:

I miss those Jim Schwartz and even Rex Ryan defenses a lot. Can't stand this reactive, bend-and-sometimes-break Cover Two crap we play right now that results in zero pass rush and virtually no blitzing. It's pathetically unaggressive.

Remember also Schwartz had Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Dareous, and Jerry Hughes as his front 4. 

[Doc Brown]

40 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I don't disagree, but to absolve the defense because of the offense was bad is a bit short sighted. I mean in one post, he calls out the offense vs the Bengals and then sites how we didn't lose to the Colts in 2020. I'm pretty sure the reason we didn't lose to the Colts in 2020 was a lot of luck and and above average offensive play. We dropped 27 on nearly 400 yards of offense. 

Agreed.  Our 2020 defense was average at best from what I remember.  We made one or two opportunistic stops on defense in that Colts game on 4th down but our offense bailed us out.  The only good performance by this defense against a top 10 NFL offense in the playoffs was against the Ravens in 2020 and you could make a persuasive argument that weather played a factor in that one.  We then got steamrolled by KC in the AFC Championship game. 

 

To win in the playoffs this year our offense is pry going to have to win three shootouts starting in the divisional round (possible but unlikely) because I have little faith in our defense against great offenses.  

[Beast]

The Bills defense is fine how it is structured.

 

It isn’t fine when Rousseau, Miller, Oliver and company become no-shows on the same day.

Edited December 14 by Beast

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, ren1701 said:

 

Really?? 

So in EVERY playoff loss - when did 17 leave it on the field, with the lead mind you, and the D take care of busines? I'll give you 13 seconds to think about it. You can nit pick what I'm sayign all you want but doesn't change the fact that no Lombardi's are at OBD and I'm pretty sure whe you your O is averaging 32 ppoint s a game, your qb has 6 TD's, you win games - unless you are the Bills. What's that term "Billsey"?

 

I ASSURE you, nobody from the 90's / gen X is saying that. Until you live through that heartbreak, you have no idea what you are saying - sorry. 

How about the game versus Cincinnati where the offense was a complete train wreck scoring a whopping 10 points? 
 

Or the game against Kansas City where the offense failed to score the go ahead touchdown late in the game and had to rely on an unreliable kicker to tie?

 

Again, you’re using selectively using information to support your narrative.  
 

Like a lot of fans your looking for a simple explanation for a more nuanced problem 

 

If your larger point is that they haven’t gotten enough of a return out of the big investment they’ve made on DL, then I agree.

Edited December 14 by JohnNord