Have the 2 D collapses this season changed Beane’s 2024 off-season agenda?

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Who.what/where are you adding to this list below? ⬇️

 

 

I haven't seen anything from Coleman that suggests he doesn't need competition at the 1spot and Cooper may not be here/is old anyway

 

Kincaid/Knox can definitely be improved upon imo

 

The only spot I really like is Shakir in the slot tbh

 

I think the offense has overachieved in terms of ppg which is a credit to them but not something I feel comfortable in testing its sustainability

[DrDawkinstein]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I haven't seen anything from Coleman that suggests he doesn't need competition at the 1spot and Cooper may not be here/is old anyway

 

Kincaid/Knox can definitely be improved upon imo

 

The only spot I really like is Shakir in the slot tbh

 

I think the offense has overachieved in terms of ppg which is a credit to them but not something I feel comfortable in testing its sustainability

 

Right, so "a couple of WRs, maybe 1 in the draft" like I said in my first post that you "couldnt disagree with more"

 

Trying to improve on Kincaid/Knox is a huge waste of resources since it isnt going to get much better compared to what you would have to spend to make that happen. The ol Great is the enemy of Good. No need. TE spot is fine for what we do.

[LABILLBACKER]

My prediction is Douglas,  Miller and Jones are all gone. As much as I can't stand AJE, we'll probably tolerate him one last year before he's a FA in 2026.  Groot has been somewhat of a inconsistent disappointment. Oliver never played up to his contract. Beane's emphasis in the draft (as much as I want more wrs) should be DL. It's the Bills most glaring weakness and probably the reason we're missing SB opportunities. We need to find our next Bruce Smith or at least some DT's who aren't candy asses.

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Right, so "a couple of WRs, maybe 1 in the draft" like I said in my first post that you "couldnt disagree with more"

 

Trying to improve on Kincaid/Knox is a huge waste of resources since it isnt going to get much better compared to what you would have to spend to make that happen. The ol Great is the enemy of Good. No need. TE spot is fine for what we do.

I disagree that the offense is pretty much set

 

I disagree w the contention that we have 'more weapons than available passes'

 

And if re signing Shakir is the big off-season move on offense I will be disappointed 

[nosejob]

51 minutes ago, Magox said:

We need monsters in the middle of that defensive line and I expect that to be addressed with premium picks.   They need 2.

As of right now, I'd be thinking about 2 Oregon Ducks. Jordan Burch 6'6 295 8.5 sacks. Can play end or tackle. 21 MPH GPS....and Derrick Harmon 6'5 310 5 sacks.

Possibly one in the high 2nd and the other in the 3rd. Then sign Reddick to a Floyd type of deal. Get rid of Von and DQ. Pick another DT late.

 

It took a while for Beane to build an Oline and I trust he'll get the Dline stocked. I wouldn't be opposed to trading Ed.

Edited December 14 by nosejob

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Our offense isnt the problem, and Josh has more weapons than passes he can throw.

 

We'll bring in a couple WRs, maybe even 1 in the draft. But our O is pretty set, and has been scoring 30+ every week.

 

The next Dalton Kincaid isnt even going to see the field as a rookie #3TE.

 

Re-signing Shakir and locking him up will be our big offseason move on Offense.

 

We need one or two more WRs.  Much as I love Mack Hollins, we need upgrades for him and Samuel, who has been a waste of money so far.  We need an offense with more weapons so Josh can simply outscore the opponent.  The McDummy D will always collapses in the close games and the playoffs.  Oliver, Groot, Boogie, AJE, Williams, etc.  All these guys are JAGs, and we've blown a ton of money and draft picks on them.  Benford and Bernard have panned out big time, but we need to spend more high draft picks on O this year.  

[BADOLBILZ]

IMO the primary issue on defense is that the Bills are not willing to commit to being very opponent specific.   It's nice to be great at a few things. That will get you in the playoff mix.  But pushing your defense to be able to do more week-in-week-out is why Spags and Belichick defense's have won so many SB's in recent times.   The Bills run into too many games where their inability to make complex adjustments gets them dissected.   And that makes the talent look worse than it is.  

[Boatdrinks]

The performance of the defense in this years playoffs will be a bigger factor than a couple regular season letdowns. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Releasing Miller saves some, but Milano doesn’t save you any.

 

Douglas makes 4.1 if he’s on the team or not.

 

There isn’t really any obvious release candidates next year.

Edited December 14 by TheyCallMeAndy

[Big Blitz]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Even without the D failures at LA and Baltimore, the defense was going to be the focal point of this coming off-season as DB starters Hamlin and Douglas are FAs and Groot is up for his 5th option.  

 

However, those two collapses have centered on the performance of the D line as it got gashed against Balt’s run offense and then failed to get any qb pressure vs the Rams.  That raised questions about the viability of Epenesa, Miller, D Jones and even Oliver.  I believe those performances will echo in Beane’s mind as he tries to find ways to improve the rushing defense and pass rush and some of the signed vet players will be replaced.  

 

Is there a chance no one returns except Groot and the two kids Carter and  Solomon?  

I also wonder about Milano’s viability beyond this season.  Is Williams ready to take over? 
 

The Bills have a ton of money invested in these defensive players.  Miller’s 2025 cap is  23.874 (dead cap 15.415), Oliver’s is 20.75 (dead cap 26.475), Milano is 16.122 (DC 17.253), Jones is 9.048 (DC 7.632) and AJE is 6.287 (DC 4.148). 
 

Given the extra cap space gained, I can see Miller, Jones and AJE all getting cut.  Even If cut how do the Bills afford the upgrades?   
 

 

 

 

Miller and Jones are good as gone in 2025. 
 

AJE Rousseau and Oliver will be back and they should.  
 

We have got to hit in the draft at DT.  

 

Try and sign or trade for DE - get Crosby!

[peterpan]

I personally would like to see a sure fire stud brought in.  Like Miles Garett via trade.  We don’t have a good track record with drafting DL. Go get a sure thing who can play at a HOF level right now.  Thats what our D has been missing.  When we rush 4 we need someone who will win their matchup every single time. 
 

Cle is a dumpster fire until they clear Deshaun Watson cap numbers.  They should be planning their 3 year rebuild now.  Sell off what you can and position yourself for a new QB and some young players.  
 

if we can’t do a move like that, I’d like to see another top wr brought in. I’m not sure Coleman is a complete player.  Cooper is older.  Get more weapons, not more underwhelming DL guys

[DrDawkinstein]

4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

We need one or two more WRs.  Much as I love Mack Hollins, we need upgrades for him and Samuel, who has been a waste of money so far.  We need an offense with more weapons so Josh can simply outscore the opponent.  The McDummy D will always collapses in the close games and the playoffs.  Oliver, Groot, Boogie, AJE, Williams, etc.  All these guys are JAGs, and we've blown a ton of money and draft picks on them.  Benford and Bernard have panned out big time, but we need to spend more high draft picks on O this year.  

 

Genuinely curious - where are you spending multiple high picks on Offense?

[stuvian]

We're going to draft near the bottom again and will be lucky to get one impact player. I'd like bigger, more dominating DLs but that sounds like installing a different scheme 

Edited December 14 by stuvian

[gonzo1105]

I don't think its a change in philosophy. I can't read what Beane thinks but the vast majority of this board assumes that their draft next year is going to be very Defensive oriented. I mean they need a DE, DT, CB, and Safety at some point in next year's draft in addition to a veteran Free agent most likely at most of those positions as well. On offense what is there really thats a need outside of adding another pass catching threat, backup QB(which they might just sign a vet), and maybe a 3rd TE. All of their needs and focus should be on finding guys that can be developed into difference makers on defense.

[gonzo1105]

7 hours ago, nosejob said:

As of right now, I'd be thinking about 2 Oregon Ducks. Jordan Burch 6'6 295 8.5 sacks. Can play end or tackle. 21 MPH GPS....and Derrick Harmon 6'5 310 5 sacks.

Possibly one in the high 2nd and the other in the 3rd. Then sign Reddick to a Floyd type of deal. Get rid of Von and DQ. Pick another DT late.

 

It took a while for Beane to build an Oline and I trust he'll get the Dline stocked. I wouldn't be opposed to trading Ed.

 

I know he's not a DT but a guy that I will be keeping an eye on through the draft process is Mike Green an Edge Rusher from Marshall. He's 6'4 250 and might be better suited for a 3-4 but he's a sack artist with 16.5 this year and he is young as he's only a Redshirt Sophomore. As we know the Bills loves to draft younger draft prospects that have not reached their ceiling yet. He has a quick first step and has a good assortment of pass rush moves for a younger guy. He definitely needs time in the weightroom as he doesn't have a power game developed yet but he will most likely be there at 30 unless he blows away testing in the process.

[NewEra]

Groot is gonna be a bill for a long time.

 

Ed is going nowhere this offseason- 34M cap hit if traded or cut vs 10M to play for us 

I’m not sure about Vons dead cap post June 1- but if we lose 14m of space by cutting him (looking at Spotrac), I think he should return.  But I thought I read here that the hit is much lower post June 1.

 

AJ is going nowhere- not the greatest player but he’s solid and somewhat cheap considering his position.

 

daquan could see the door if he keeps playing like he has this season.  

 

I think Smoot will get 5M+ or so from someone.  He was a bargain for us.

 

 carter will be a mainstay for the next 3 years.  Solomon will hopefully become a contributor
 

Phillips probably won’t get any money elsewhere so maybe he comes back for the minimum or latches on the PS

We should probably draft a pass rusher in rd 1 if there’s a nice prospect there

 

[Returntoglory]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Even without the D failures at LA and Baltimore, the defense was going to be the focal point of this coming off-season as DB starters Hamlin and Douglas are FAs and Groot is up for his 5th option.  

 

However, those two collapses have centered on the performance of the D line as it got gashed against Balt’s run offense and then failed to get any qb pressure vs the Rams.  That raised questions about the viability of Epenesa, Miller, D Jones and even Oliver.  I believe those performances will echo in Beane’s mind as he tries to find ways to improve the rushing defense and pass rush and some of the signed vet players will be replaced.  

 

Is there a chance no one returns except Groot and the two kids Carter and  Solomon?  

I also wonder about Milano’s viability beyond this season.  Is Williams ready to take over? 
 

The Bills have a ton of money invested in these defensive players.  Miller’s 2025 cap is  23.874 (dead cap 15.415), Oliver’s is 20.75 (dead cap 26.475), Milano is 16.122 (DC 17.253), Jones is 9.048 (DC 7.632) and AJE is 6.287 (DC 4.148). 
 

Given the extra cap space gained, I can see Miller, Jones and AJE all getting cut.  Even If cut how do the Bills afford the upgrades?   
 

 

 

Right now our D-line is soft. Depending on a four man rush has not paid off and we need a bona-fide disruptive force for teams to contend with. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

12 hours ago, RiotAct said:

Offense, offense, offense.

 

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Except Cooper and Hollins, nearly the entire offense is under contract or control for next season, including both QBs, the top 2 RBs, the entire starting OL, top 2 TEs plus Samuel, Shakir and Coleman.  Don’t expect big $ investments on offense other than re-signing Hollins and seeing if Cooper wants to comeback. OL depth beyond Grable and SVPG is a small need if Anderson and/or Van Denmark walk.

 

Unlike the offense, there are big questions on each level of the defense.  The entire DL is suspect.  Milano is an expensive question mark at LB.  Douglas, who is not having a good season, is going to be replaced but are Ingram or Elam really viable options.  Hamlin is also probably gone at safety.  Bishop likely slides into his slot, but  there is little depth beyond Rapp and Bishop. 

I kind of started this thread because of how butt awful AJE was against the Rams.   He needs to go.

 

Agree, you don't sign top paid FA or use high draft picks if you don't have a starting spot for the player. Could they improve their O-line, sure, but at what cost.  If you have to cut one of the starters or make him a backup, the gain isn't worth it over the value the existing player is giving you as they are all playing very well.  You can make the same argument at RB and TE.   The only spot on offense that has an opening is WR assuming Cooper & Hollins don't come back.  Based on comments Cooper has made I wouldn't be shocked to see him somewhat of a home town discount to stay here, same with Hollins.

 

On the other hand on defense there are players that you're not getting great value from so are worth replacing as there's a large potential gain or the player is a FA so need a replacement.  Those are CB, DE to replace Miller,  A high end DT next to Oliver, and maybe a safety to replace Hamlin if not certain Bishop is up to being the starter. 

 

That's 4 potential new starters on D compared to one starter on offense and one highly used backup in Hollins

[BigAl2526]

I would guess the main focus in the off season will be defense.  I don't have much more I can say.

[billsfan714]

I could see about the whole draft going to D.   Beane has to sign Shakir and Rousseau long term.   If he can resign Cooper and Hollins to friendly contracts that would be great.   Von is as good as gone.   Jones doesnt have much left in the tank.   Douglas is getting old for a corner.  AJE will be on his last year next year.   I could see the first 4-5 picks being,  DE DT CB S and possibly another S for depth.