Did Josh like the call at the goal line?

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Which is exactly why you cant be making decisions that make it even harder.

It wasn't a good play call and calling the time out basically ended the game 

 

But after getting stuffed the time out was the only option..

 

I'm not putting this on Josh.. but if people are going to blame McDermott.. the other side needs to be told that Josh is in complete control of the offense, and went with the sneak thinking it would work 

 

Josh has complete control of the offense and could of went play action, naked bootleg, quick pass... Josh also thought The QB snake was good enough in that situation 

 

The best quarterback in the world didn't audible out

 

And after getting stuffed and our line was slow getting up a timeout was the only option unfortunately

Edited December 10 by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It wasn't a good play call and calling the time out basically ended the game 

 

But after getting stuffed the time out was the only option..

 

I'm not putting this on Josh.. but if people are going to blame McDermott.. the other side needs to be told that Josh is in complete control of the offense, and went with the sneak thinking it would work 

 

Josh has complete control of the offense and could of went play action, naked bootleg, quick pass... Josh also thought The QB snake was good enough in that situation 

 

The best quarterback in the world didn't audible out

 

And after getting stuffed and our line was slow getting up a timeout was the only option unfortunately

Im being presumptuous, but Josh did not look like he liked that play call.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I honestly thought it would be a fake sneak pass to Davidson, who was uncovered on the line IIRC.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Im being presumptuous, but Josh did not look like he liked that play call.

But he could change it 

 

Hindsights always 20/20 ... Josh Allen is in complete control of the offense and can make any check or audible at the line 

 

So at the end of the day he did go through with it because he has the knowledge of the offense and the option to back out of play calls... 

 

Josh is not forced into running a quarterback sneak there he has control of the offense

 

I would be mad too if it didn't work and it basically sealed the game... But Josh isn't beholden to that at this point in his career 

 

He has total control of the offense

Edited December 10 by Buffalo716

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Im being presumptuous, but Josh did not look like he liked that play call.

Well thats after the fact. Of course he doesn't and likely hind sight po'd about him running that play

Why are folks trying to turn this into drama between Brady and Allen. Thats silly af

 

 not directed at you Einstein

 But you already knew that didn't you 

😉

Edited December 10 by 3rdand12

[Nephilim17]

21 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

 

You name one stop on a sneak but say lately there have been others.  When? The stats I can find say we were successful on 13/14 going into yesterday’s game.

 

 

I heard or read (probably heard on a Marino podcast) that the Bills were 4/6 recently or something like that in this situation. In my head I was thinking that's a 2/3 chance of success and 1/3 chance of ending the game.

 

I'd like to know where you got the 13/14 stat from; not saying you're wrong but cite your source here please. I would be shocked if it includes fourth and over a yard which was the case we are talking about. I would think 13/14 describes 4th and inches situations.

Big, big difference trying a "tush push" for one foot and four or five feet.

When I heard what I did the math that went through my head was this:

We have a 1/3 chance of not making it and if we use the time out, that means we have a 93% chance of not getting the ball and thus losing.

 

I didn't like those numbers at all and I'm an idiot layman fan, not a Moneyball stat whiz. 

Also consider this: Josh is not Kordell Stuart; Josh is both and elite runner and thrower. You always need 3 throw plays you feel good about in this situation. Leaving a roughly 1/3 chance of having a 93% chance of not getting the ball back should not a "gut" call — it needs to be rational thinking based on what's happened many times in the recent past.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

I heard or read (probably heard on a Marino podcast) that the Bills were 4/6 recently or something like that in this situation. In my head I was thinking that's a 2/3 chance of success and 1/3 chance of ending the game.

 

I'd like to know where you got the 13/14 stat from; not saying you're wrong but cite your source here please. I would be shocked if it includes fourth and over a yard which was the case we are talking about. I would think 13/14 describes 4th and inches situations.

Big, big difference trying a "tush push" for one foot and four or five feet.

When I heard what I did the math that went through my head was this:

We have a 1/3 chance of not making it and if we use the time out, that means we have a 93% chance of not getting the ball and thus losing.

 

I didn't like those numbers at all and I'm an idiot layman fan, not a Moneyball stat whiz. 

Also consider this: Josh is not Kordell Stuart; Josh is both and elite runner and thrower. You always need 3 throw plays you feel good about in this situation. Leaving a roughly 1/3 chance of having a 93% chance of not getting the ball back should not a "gut" call — it needs to be rational thinking based on what's happened many times in the recent past.

OC Joe Brady on his decision to call a QB sneak

Entering Sunday, Josh Allen had converted 13 of 14 (93%) of his short yardage sneaks when needing to pick up 1 yard, according to TruMedia. Prior to the final drive, Allen was 3 of 4 on short yardage sneaks against the Rams, including two TDs from the 1 yard line.
 

This was in an article on buffalobills.com.  So assuming we ran it the way we had been running it gives us a real good chance.  But I was confused when I only saw one pusher behind Josh.

[Nephilim17]

25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Entering Sunday, Josh Allen had converted 13 of 14 (93%) of his short yardage sneaks when needing to pick up 1 yard, according to TruMedia. Prior to the final drive, Allen was 3 of 4 on short yardage sneaks against the Rams, including two TDs from the 1 yard line.

Not trying to be difficult but I heard it was more than a yard... If so, does this stat qualify?

[DCofNC]

22 hours ago, zow2 said:

 

McD stubbornly seemed to agree in his media call today that it’s something “they discussed” today and will learn from. That they needed to keep those 3 timeouts no matter what.  He had a tough time articulating his thoughts about this after the game. I’m not even sure he was aware the ball was closer to the 1.5 yard line. which makes a big difference on the tush push. That’s far from automatic as we saw a couple times yesterday. 

I keep seeing this 1.5 yard line story and I haven’t gone back to look, but IF it was, it was a mistake on the officials, the penalty was in the end zone, by rule it’s on the one.

[Einstein]

53 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

But he could change it 

 

Hindsights always 20/20 ... Josh Allen is in complete control of the offense and can make any check or audible at the line 

 

So at the end of the day he did go through with it because he has the knowledge of the offense and the option to back out of play calls... 

 

Josh is not forced into running a quarterback sneak there he has control of the offense

 

I would be mad too if it didn't work and it basically sealed the game... But Josh isn't beholden to that at this point in his career 

 

He has total control of the offense

 

I mean, he could’ve audibled it to a different run play, but that still would’ve been a mistake. He couldn’t have audibled it to a shotgun play (which it should have been), because look at the players on the field. There’s only so much you can do with that goal line formation.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I mean, he could’ve audibled it to a different run play, but that still would’ve been a mistake. He couldn’t have audibled it to a shotgun play (which it should have been), because look at the players on the field. There’s only so much you can do with that goal line formation.

You can go shotgun goal line.. with a bunch of heavy people.. shift the line fully right get the pocket moving 

 

Then you get Josh on the move.. and they're still running backs and tight ends on the field

Edited December 11 by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

You can go shotgun goal line.. with a bunch of heavy people.. shift the line fully right get the pocket 

 

Then you get Josh on the move.. and they're still running backs and tight ends on the field

 

I highly doubt that’s one of the available audibles.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

You can go shotgun goal line.. with a bunch of heavy people.. shift the line fully right get the pocket moving 

 

Then you get Josh on the move.. and they're still running backs and tight ends on the field

One RB 3 TEs 

 

It was a super heavy set

 

Not a lot of good pass checks there

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

I highly doubt that’s one of the available audibles.

The bills practice situations 

 

The bills were in a personnel that 100% did not just have to be a goal line sneak 

 

There were tight ends on the field and running back

 

You don't have to be under center.. this is the NFL 

 

You can get a shotgun snap from super heavy personnel it's not illegal and it's something that absolutely has been practiced before... College teams practice shotgun goal line

 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

I highly doubt that’s one of the available audibles.

It almost certainly isn't

 

Now- you CAN pass out of jumbo if that's the playcall but the reality is when you roll out that personnel for a called QB sneak there are likely zero actual checks to get into a pass play 

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

One RB 3 TEs 

 

It was a super heavy set

 

Not a lot of good pass checks there

Yeah you can still run shotgun goal line from three tight ends and one running back set 

 

There is nothing there that says you need to goal line sneak it 

 

That's why Josh certainly was okay with the call 

 

You can get a shotgun snap with three tight ends and shift the line and get it moving... Not a goal line sneak only formation

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It almost certainly isn't

 

Now- you CAN pass out of jumbo if that's the playcall but the reality is when you roll out that personnel for a called QB sneak there are likely zero actual checks to get into a pass play 

There are absolutely passing plays with three tight end sets they just ran to the line thinking they could bully it in

 

There are shotgun formations with three tight ends and one running back sets

 

They are professionals they absolutely have passing plays with that personnel

 

What they did think is they have Josh Allen a cheat code for quarterback Sneak.. and Josh certainly agreed cuz he went right up to try and sneak it in 

 

But he has full control of the offense and we have three tight end passing sets

Edited December 11 by Buffalo716

[oldmanfan]

19 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Not trying to be difficult but I heard it was more than a yard... If so, does this stat qualify?

Not sure it was really more than a yard

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah you can still run shotgun goal line from three tight ends and one running back set 

 

There is nothing there that says you need to goal line sneak it 

 

That's why Josh certainly was okay with the call 

 

You can get a shotgun snap with three tight ends and shift the line and get it moving... Not a goal line sneak only formation

There are absolutely passing plays with three tight end sets they just ran to the line thinking they could bully it in

 

There are shotgun formations with three tight ends and one running back sets

 

They are professionals they absolutely have passing plays with that personnel

 

What they did think is they have Josh Allen a cheat code for quarterback Sneak.. and Josh certainly agreed cuz he went right up to try and sneak it in 

 

But he has full control of the offense and we have three tight end passing sets

I know we have pass plays w 3 TEs, probably every teams does

 

I'm saying when we are in that jumbo look w a QB sneak playcall I doubt we have a pass check there

[Einstein]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It almost certainly isn't

 

Now- you CAN pass out of jumbo if that's the playcall but the reality is when you roll out that personnel for a called QB sneak there are likely zero actual checks to get into a pass play 

 

Agreed.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I know we have pass plays w 3 TEs, probably every teams does

 

I'm saying when we are in that jumbo look w a QB sneak playcall I doubt we have a pass check there

At the end of the day Josh has complete control of the offense 

 

He runs up to the line yells, jumbo right power 3 flat 

 

Indicated strong right side tight end formation with a route combination

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Agreed.

 

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Agreed.

Read my latest response to how Josh could have handled it which is inside the playbook

 

The bills were playing fast and we have Superman 

 

Josh is like 25 out of 28 in his career on QB sneaks... He thought it was probably going to score 

 

But you can run up to the line and get into a passing play

Edited December 11 by Buffalo716