Did Josh like the call at the goal line?

[Sweats]

All of this, "we could have won the game if only we had all 3 TO's left" nonsense really has to stop.

 

Our D did nothing all day long, like absolutely nothing. They got shredded every chance LA had the ball and it wasn't even close, however, if we had 3TO's at the end of the game, we could have held them to a 3 and out and we were going to win?.........what the hell is wrong with you people?!?

 

The better team won. The Rams wanted it more.

McD ****ed up.......let it go.

 

We couldn't stop LA all day long, but all of a sudden, we were going to hold them to a 3 and out. I guess its just that easy.......and McVay had no tricks up his sleeve either, i suppose.

 

Wow ......just wow.

[Thurman#1]

5 minutes ago, Taro Nimbus said:

Because they knew we couldn’t stop the clock and ran it 3 times.   If we had all three timeouts, they had their entire playbook open to do whatever they wanted.  And the way that defense played, there was no way to stop them. 

 

 

Nah. It's not "no way." They'd had a three and out a drive or two before.

 

But the odds weren't great we'd do it again there. And they'd likely have tried three run plays there as well to keep the clock running and force us to burn those TOs.

[Einstein]

11 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

No

It is always the wrong call

 

Agreed.

 

The law of averages dictates that, no matter how good you are at it, you will fail eventually. 

 

And you can’t fail in that scenario, because failure means running clock.

 

So put him in shotgun, and let him decide whether to throw or run it in. He is literally the best redzone QB of all time. He will get in one way or the other.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Agreed.

 

The law of averages dictates that, no matter how good you are at it, you will fail eventually. 

 

And you can’t fail in that scenario, because failure means running clock.

 

So put him in shotgun, and let him decide whether to throw or run it in. He is literally the best redzone QB of all time. He will get in one way or the other.

 

 

Going into the game the sneak had worked 13/14 times this season.  So it was a high percentage play.  But when they did not have the two pushers behind Josh I wish he would have just bailed on it.  Either audible and run some kind of bootleg, or just chuck it at Cook's feet and go to another down.  

[Casey D]

10 hours ago, eSJayDee said:

You are correct, I was mistaken.  This might change the chance of making it somewhat (bear in mind, in the filed of play 3rd & 1 means anything < 36", so although he converts  "3rd & 1" at about 90%, it usually requires making < 1 full yard.)  But my point is the call per se, I think is dubious, but defendable; taking the TO after it failed was outright a mistake.

Probably.  But by the time they unraveled the pile another 15 seconds at least would run before a spike and they would be down to 45 seconds or so.  Basically, they went all in on the sneak working.  But your point is fair.

[Matt_In_NH]

You are saying if Josh did not like the call he would instead of running the play, he would "just spike it"?  That does not seem too plausible.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Casey D said:

Probably.  But by the time they unraveled the pile another 15 seconds at least would run before a spike and they would be down to 45 seconds or so.  Basically, they went all in on the sneak working.  But your point is fair.

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nah. It's not "no way." They'd had a three and out a drive or two before.

 

But the odds weren't great we'd do it again there. And they'd likely have tried three run plays there as well to keep the clock running and force us to burn those TOs.

I disagree.  I think McVay would have known one first down clinches the game and that they torched us with Nakua all day.  He would have used his entire playbook, especially that quick screen they scored with to put them at 44.  But we'll never know.

 

We lost this game because the D did not show up.  

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

You are saying if Josh did not like the call he would instead of running the play, he would "just spike it"?  That does not seem too plausible.

I was corrected by someone in that they could not spike because time had been called after the interference penalty.  What I wish could have happened is for Josh to see he didn't have his normal set up for the push from behind and just bailed by either rolling out to try and run it in or just throw one over Cook's head or at his feet and go to second down.  But even if that had happened it was still an incredible long shot to win.  I don't think there's any way we stop them from getting a first once they got the ball back.

[transient]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

All of this, "we could have won the game if only we had all 3 TO's left" nonsense really has to stop.

 

Our D did nothing all day long, like absolutely nothing. They got shredded every chance LA had the ball and it wasn't even close, however, if we had 3TO's at the end of the game, we could have held them to a 3 and out and we were going to win?.........what the hell is wrong with you people?!?

 

The better team won. The Rams wanted it more.

McD ****ed up.......let it go.

 

We couldn't stop LA all day long, but all of a sudden, we were going to hold them to a 3 and out. I guess its just that easy.......and McVay had no tricks up his sleeve either, i suppose.

 

Wow ......just wow.

While all of this may be true, the galling part of the play call is how it basically shut the door on any chance of victory, no matter how slim it may have been. We see improbable comebacks every season in the league, and we see decisions like this undermine the Bills chances of being one of those improbable comebacks every season, as well. 

[Casey D]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

 

I disagree.  I think McVay would have known one first down clinches the game and that they torched us with Nakua all day.  He would have used his entire playbook, especially that quick screen they scored with to put them at 44.  But we'll never know.

 

We lost this game because the D did not show up.  

I agree.  And I am hoping this game turns out to be a blessing in disguise.  It is much better to see this happen in early December than January.  Getting undressed like that, McD and Babich have to go to school and have a plan when it starts to happen in a playoff game.  Now perhaps they can't fix it, but at least now they have a month to work on it.  Losing this game to NFC team is no big deal.  Does this help them come playoff time is the real question?  You know, that which does not kill me only makes me stronger-- and this loss certainly did not kill them. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, transient said:

While all of this may be true, the galling part of the play call is how it basically shut the door on any chance of victory, no matter how slim it may have been. We see improbable comebacks every season in the league, and we see decisions like this undermine the Bills chances of being one of those improbable comebacks every season, as well. 

I think our chances were slim regardless.  But I think we all agree the TO should not have been called.

[Billsatlastin2018]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

All of this, "we could have won the game if only we had all 3 TO's left" nonsense really has to stop.

 

Our D did nothing all day long, like absolutely nothing. They got shredded every chance LA had the ball and it wasn't even close, however, if we had 3TO's at the end of the game, we could have held them to a 3 and out and we were going to win?.........what the hell is wrong with you people?!?

 

The better team won. The Rams wanted it more.

McD ****ed up.......let it go.

 

We couldn't stop LA all day long, but all of a sudden, we were going to hold them to a 3 and out. I guess its just that easy.......and McVay had no tricks up his sleeve either, i suppose.

 

Wow ......just wow.

Well, I don’t necessarily disagree, but the math supports giving it the old college try. McVay, on balance, is gonna run twice to use the clock and force Bills TOs. By using that TO, McClapper lost the game at a 97% yardstick. It was typically brain dead of him.

 

Similarly, on the prior questionable call, I am out of synch with the majority of my friends and posters here. Pushing the Rams back 10 yards and giving McVay  and Stafford TWO shots is dead wrong. You push back the stiffs and bums of the NFL- the Cleveland Clowns, the Panthers, the Raiders, etc. The ones with QBs without a clue!

 

You do NOT, you cannot, give the #10 TD Passing QB of All Time (certain to go to the HOF) 2 plays! You must put the pressure on and the pressure off your D in a manner of speaking, to decide whether to go for a 4th and 7 or kick a 54 yard FG.
 

On balance, McVay is a very intelligent HC, with a photographic memory. He is likely to go, but then the D needs ONE stop. Then Allen takes over to run the clock down to zero (unless McD ***** it up again) and win the game.

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, Sweats said:

All of this, "we could have won the game if only we had all 3 TO's left" nonsense really has to stop.

 

Our D did nothing all day long, like absolutely nothing. They got shredded every chance LA had the ball and it wasn't even close, however, if we had 3TO's at the end of the game, we could have held them to a 3 and out and we were going to win?.........what the hell is wrong with you people?!?

 

The better team won. The Rams wanted it more.

McD ****ed up.......let it go.

 

We couldn't stop LA all day long, but all of a sudden, we were going to hold them to a 3 and out. I guess its just that easy.......and McVay had no tricks up his sleeve either, i suppose.

 

Wow ......just wow.

It’s not about how the defense played, it’s about making the smart decision in crunch time. I agree defense played terrible but you still gotta give your team the best opportunity to win and using the timeout basically ended the game. No one knows how the Rams play the next 3 downs, there is so many options. All we know is that calling a run play and using a timeout was a mistake.

Edited December 10 by BananaB

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Well, I don’t necessarily disagree, but the math supports giving it the old college try. McVay, on balance, is gonna run twice to use the clock and force Bills TOs. By using that TO, McClapper lost the game at a 97% yardstick. It was typically brain dead of him.

 

Similarly, on the prior questionable call, I am out of synch with the majority of my friends and posters here. Pushing the Rams back 10 yards and giving McVay  and Stafford TWO shots is dead wrong. You push back the stiffs and bums of the NFL- the Cleveland Clowns, the Panthers, the Raiders, etc. The ones with QBs without a clue!

 

You do NOT, you cannot, give the #10 TD Passing QB of All Time (certain to go to the HOF) 2 plays! You must put the pressure on and the pressure off your D in a manner of speaking, to decide whether to go for a 4th and 7 or kick a 54 yard FG.
 

On balance, McVay is a very intelligent HC, with a photographic memory. He is likely to go, but then the D needs ONE stop. Then Allen takes over to run the clock down to zero (unless McD ***** it up again) and win the game.

I think the penalty question is being evaluated more in hindsight vs.  the actual game time.  I don't fault taking the penalty becuase at the time you dinit know if McVay would go for it on fourth down or kick the FG.  Taking the penaly takes them out of FG position.  The real problem then is a defense that let's them get a first down on 3rd and 15.

10 minutes ago, BananaB said:

It’s not about how the defense played, it’s about making the smart decision in crunch time. I agree defense played terrible but you still gotta give your team the best opportunity to win and using the timeout basically ended the game. No one knows how the Rams play the next 3 downs, there is so many options. All we know is that calling a run play and using a timeout was a mistake.

I don;'t think the sneak per se was wrong in that we have converted 13/14 going into the game.  But when the alignment didn't have the two guys to push behind Josh that was a problem.  I think everyone agrees they should not have called the TO.

Edited December 10 by oldmanfan

[Billsatlastin2018]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I think the penalty question is being evaluated more in hindsight vs.  the actual game time.  I don't fault taking the penalty becuase at the time you dinit know if McVay would go for it on fourth down or kick the FG.  Taking the penaly takes them out of FG position.  The real problem then is a defense that let's them get a first down on 3rd and 15.

For sure. Part of my calculation is to give this game’s hopelessly outclassed D… only ONE stop play- not two.

 

I am one that wants to put the pressure on the opposing team to make a quick decision. I suspect McVay was going to go for it, based on any positive 3rd Down play. I would simply rather, a) he had to think about it; b) he had ONE shot to get it right! 

[Casey D]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think the penalty question is being evaluated more in hindsight vs.  the actual game time.  I don't fault taking the penalty becuase at the time you dinit know if McVay would go for it on fourth down or kick the FG.  Taking the penaly takes them out of FG position.  The real problem then is a defense that let's them get a first down on 3rd and 15.

I don;'t think the sneak per se was wrong in that we have converted 13/14 going into the game.  But when the alignment didn't have the two guys to push behind Josh that was a problem.  I think everyone agrees they should not have called the TO.

Yes, but I think their chances were de minimis after the sneak failed because of the time it would take to unravel that pile.  With no time out, there would only have been 40-45 seconds left when Bills did score on next play.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Casey D said:

Yes, but I think their chances were de minimis after the sneak failed because of the time it would take to unravel that pile.  With no time out, there would only have been 40-45 seconds left when Bills did score on next play.

It was going to be a long shot no matter what.  I don't think there's any way the Rams don't make a first down when they got the ball back.

[Casey D]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It was going to be a long shot no matter what.  I don't think there's any way the Rams don't make a first down when they got the ball back.

Agree.  Bottom line is McD was not great at the end with his decision making, but it almost certainly did not change the outcome so it is not a big deal.  McD has shown a capacity for growth and learning-- going for it on 4th down against KC for example-- so as I said earlier, maybe he learns something here that cost nothing and it will be a blessing in disguise.

[DapperCam]

2 hours ago, Sweats said:

All of this, "we could have won the game if only we had all 3 TO's left" nonsense really has to stop.

 

Our D did nothing all day long, like absolutely nothing. They got shredded every chance LA had the ball and it wasn't even close, however, if we had 3TO's at the end of the game, we could have held them to a 3 and out and we were going to win?.........what the hell is wrong with you people?!?

 

The better team won. The Rams wanted it more.

McD ****ed up.......let it go.

 

We couldn't stop LA all day long, but all of a sudden, we were going to hold them to a 3 and out. I guess its just that easy.......and McVay had no tricks up his sleeve either, i suppose.

 

Wow ......just wow.

It's not really nonsense. We could have won the game if we had all 3 TOs left. It wasn't likely, but it was still a possibility. The most likely outcome is the Bills allow the Rams to get a first down and the game is over. But maybe there is a bad snap, or maybe there is a holding penalty that backs them way up. The KC Chiefs win on stuff like that seemingly every week. McDermott ended the game by calling that timeout. It was an unforced error, which is why people are annoyed. It eliminated the 5% chance we had to come back. It was small, but it was there.

[Ray Stonada]

I’d like to see us run a fake tush push…

 

The man in motion who usually stops behind Josh keeps running and goes out to the left corner.

 

Josh takes the snap and rolls right instead of sneaking.

 

Meanwhile the tight end or lineman on the right side of the line, runs to the right corner of the end zone.

 

One of these guys will be open for an easy TD pass. Or Josh just jogs into the end zone. 

 

And if we run it once it will make defenses think twice going forward. 

[finn]

A play action throw to Alec Anderson would have brilliant there.