The root source of D problems is the D Line

[starrymessenger]

39 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Then find a monster 1 tech. A guy that blocks out the sun. Someone who's not Haynesworth.  We've been rotating Jags @ 1T since McD took the job.  And yes Ed Oliver has not played anywhere near his contract. 

I don't think much will be available in the way of disruptive 1 tech in FA. Lots of edge rushers tho. As for trades that is anyone's guess. Early days but Kenneth Grant (Michigan) might be someone they could consider in the draft if they opt for a run stuffing DT who can occupy 2 offensive lineman. Would likely cost a late first or move up in the second.

Edited December 10 by starrymessenger

[Back2Buff]

Poona Ford and Tim Settle success this year should tell you all you need.  

 

The Bills can swap in who ever they want.  The system has so little stunts and deception.  Its very easy to defend.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He really isn't.  This became more obvious as Nacua just destroyed and toyed with him the whole game. 

 

That's a little harsh, yeah? Even great players have bad games. The scheme really hangs Taron out to dry a lot of times too, he is just so good we don't usually notice.

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

I see people say this, but most weeks he’s one of our highest rated defensive line guys.  Not a high barrier given our DT’s have been giving us nothing and Epenesa shows up every 2-3 games, but still..

That's kind of an indictment of the group I guess.  what I have been seeing from Miller is he's just rushing straight into the RT, no real moves.  Pretty much what I saw from all our D lineman against the Rams.

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

Poona Ford and Tim Settle success this year should tell you all you need.  

 

The Bills can swap in who ever they want.  The system has so little stunts and deception.  Its very easy to defend.

True but if you are going to run stunts you had better be good at it because otherwise it opens up opportunities in the run game that we already have a problem stopping.

[Kelly to Allen]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Prisoner of the moment is focusing on the DL being "elite" against a team with a mediocre offense and sub par OL.  

 

DL was embarrassed against the Ravens and Rams, teams who can throw and run the ball with QB's who can get the ball out quickly.

 

So I would say you are being prisoner to an isolated past moment and ignoring the real issues that are going to be problematic when we face premium opposition in the post season.  

KC has meh ots. Their interior is blue chip 

 

Lots of guys were injured vs the ravens. But I'll grant you the ravens. The rams avg 3.3 ypc. It was maybe Staffords top 3 all time performance on 3rd down along with ridiculous catches. 

 

You're taking maybe Staffords best game ever ( it may have been) and using it as a data point of a trend rather than a outlier...

 

But I understand your concerns. The bills are not without a few concerns. But every contender has that

10 hours ago, Pete said:

That’s KC game is prisoner of the moment.  DLine got gashed against Rams, Ravens, Colts, Dolphins, Cardinals…….

No they didn't...

 

3.3 ypc vs the rams

 

Injured vs the ravens 

 

The colts had one big run. Taylor was shut down in the second half. We were also up 30-13 with 3 min left and we were playing with some backups 

 

Dolphins game a month ago, I'll agree. 

 

The Cardinals had 3 points on offense in the second half. Murray had like 70 total yds in the second half. A kick return put them back in it ...

 

We went on a 31-3 run in the cards game after they were up 17-3. Plus it was opening day. Opening day is always weird usually 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10 by Kelly to Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

The biggest reason I'm more confident about the rams game?

 

We won the game 42-37 if you don't count the punt block. And we lost time of possession. We had the ball for 21 minutes and won 42-37 ( offense against offense)

 

That's completely insane. 

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Prisoner of the moment is focusing on the DL being "elite" against a team with a mediocre offense and sub par OL.  

 

DL was embarrassed against the Ravens and Rams, teams who can throw and run the ball with QB's who can get the ball out quickly.

 

So I would say you are being prisoner to an isolated past moment and ignoring the real issues that are going to be problematic when we face premium opposition in the post season.  

 

The 21 rams got blown out by the cards and then blew the cards out in the playoffs 

 

The 90 bills got blown out by Miami. Then blew Miami out twice basically. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Same old same old. For the most part, just run upfield past the QB, which is bad whether it is a running play or passing play.  Can’t wait for him to become a former Bill come next spring/summer. 

 

when you can't chase down Matt Stafford in the backfield, it's time to retire.

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's a little harsh, yeah? Even great players have bad games. The scheme really hangs Taron out to dry a lot of times too, he is just so good we don't usually notice.

 

you don't not notice guys who are "so good".  The scheme didn't leave him out to dry.  

 

He was manhandled over and over by one guy--targeted, actually.   Nacua wrote the book for Detroit next week.  

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

you don't not notice guys who are "so good".  The scheme didn't leave him out to dry.  

 

He was manhandled over and over by one guy--targeted, actually.   Nacua wrote the book for Detroit next week.  

 

You don't notice him because he does a lot of dirty work that goes unheralded. You're just plain wrong on this one.

 

Nacua is a physical mismatch against any slot CB in the league. Wasn't just Taron either. All of our CBs took turns getting abused by him. Sometimes good coverage got beaten by better throws and catches, and sometimes he was just sitting wide open for one reason or another. 

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You don't notice him because he does a lot of dirty work that goes unheralded. You're just plain wrong on this one.

 

Nacua is a physical mismatch against any slot CB in the league. Wasn't just Taron either. All of our CBs took turns getting abused by him. Sometimes good coverage got beaten by better throws and catches, and sometimes he was just sitting wide open for one reason or another. 

 

It stood out that he was serially abused.  Stafford was looking for him.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

KC has meh ots. Their interior is blue chip 

 

Lots of guys were injured vs the ravens. But I'll grant you the ravens. The rams avg 3.3 ypc. It was maybe Staffords top 3 all time performance on 3rd down along with ridiculous catches. 

 

You're taking maybe Staffords best game ever ( it may have been) and using it as a data point of a trend rather than a outlier...

 

But I understand your concerns. The bills are not without a few concerns. But every contender has that

No they didn't...

 

3.3 ypc vs the rams

 

Injured vs the ravens 

 

The colts had one big run. Taylor was shut down in the second half. We were also up 30-13 with 3 min left and we were playing with some backups 

 

Dolphins game a month ago, I'll agree. 

 

The Cardinals had 3 points on offense in the second half. Murray had like 70 total yds in the second half. A kick return put them back in it ...

 

We went on a 31-3 run in the cards game after they were up 17-3. Plus it was opening day. Opening day is always weird usually 

 

 

 

 

 

3.3.  Do you understand context?  The D was getting run over.  So we pinched the Safety’s up and ran blitz’s to try and stop the run.  Well we stopped the run, but then could not stop the pass, because our secondary was up trying to stop the run!

[billsbackto81]

On 12/9/2024 at 6:54 AM, Pete said:

DLine got dominated.  They could not stop the run, and they could not pressure Stafford.  I’m talking to you Ed Oliver and DaQuan.  Shameful performance.  It’s hardly the first time DL has failed us this year.  DL is the Achilles heel of a loaded Bills team, led by Josh Allen.

DL is definitely a problem, but no one ever said this team was loaded. We have nice pieces and a superhuman QB that makes it all work at a high level. That alone should net him the MVP.  

 

Unfortunately, you are correct with your concern.  This D is not capable of consistently containing a high powered offense with a good RB and competent WRs. Without any semblance of a pass rush most playoff caliber QBs will have an easy go of it. Maybe Sunday isn't a true indication of what they're capable of, but it sure as hell didn't look promising. 

[Kelly to Allen]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

3.3.  Do you understand context?  The D was getting run over.  So we pinched the Safety’s up and ran blitz’s to try and stop the run.  Well we stopped the run, but then could not stop the pass, because our secondary was up trying to stop the run!

Yes. It may have been Staffords greatest game in his career. It was an absurdity on 3rd down. 

 

The d was not getting run over. 

 

It's an outlier. 

 

It happens 

Edited December 10 by Kelly to Allen

[Eastport bills]

The root source of our defensive performance was our coaching. Ed Oliver and Dequan Jones, Milano got manhandled in the run game and they never got near Stafford sending four and never added more rushers. Our vaunted zone defense was out of position and very handsy. These players were ready to play and Sean should be embarrassed.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

True but if you are going to run stunts you had better be good at it because otherwise it opens up opportunities in the run game that we already have a problem stopping.

If only Bills had a Kromer mirror image for the D line.

These guys need to relearn some hand work and be more situationally aware. Maybe its the guys calling the checks. But i really feel no matter who we have line up since Kyle Williams and then Super Mario off the edge , we only get glimpses of dominance last 4 years or so.

 I am going to blame line Coaches and then McD on this very real issue.

McBeanes might want to shake up the base alignments. 3-4. A real 4-3 with 3 LBs on at least two downs. Something dramatic for next year ?

This has not cut it for a few years running ,and is the main reason Bills aren't finishing season in the SB. imho

58 minutes ago, Pete said:

3.3.  Do you understand context?  The D was getting run over.  So we pinched the Safety’s up and ran blitz’s to try and stop the run.  Well we stopped the run, but then could not stop the pass, because our secondary was up trying to stop the run!

So was this a Coaching error in adjustments to what they were doing ? Or were the Rams just that good? I say it was a mix and Rams played solid football for sure

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

That's kind of an indictment of the group I guess.  what I have been seeing from Miller is he's just rushing straight into the RT, no real moves.  Pretty much what I saw from all our D lineman against the Rams.

yep. Kinda my point about D line Coaching Sunday afternoon.

[Aesop]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Then find a monster 1 tech. A guy that blocks out the sun. Someone who's not Haynesworth.  We've been rotating Jags @ 1T since McD took the job.  And yes Ed Oliver has not played anywhere near his contract. 

Agreed. They need to get a great 1 tech in the building. Ill get Beane on the phone and let him know. This has been the achilles heal of the defense for years. 

[WideNine]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He really isn't.  This became more obvious as Nacua just destroyed and toyed with him the whole game. 

 

He did have a bad game, and Puka did out position and roast him.

 

Having to support against the run and some of the motion they used seemed to confuse him quite a bit too.

 

Hoping it was just a one off.

 

 

[Cubanmist]

How many years does Oliver have left on his contract? What does it cost the Bills to release him at the end of the season? He is not worth all of that money. The Jets chose the right DT in the same year Oliver was drafted. Wish it were the other way around. 

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

If only Bills had a Kromer mirror image for the D line.

These guys need to relearn some hand work and be more situationally aware. Maybe its the guys calling the checks. But i really feel no matter who we have line up since Kyle Williams and then Super Mario off the edge , we only get glimpses of dominance last 4 years or so.

 I am going to blame line Coaches and then McD on this very real issue.

McBeanes might want to shake up the base alignments. 3-4. A real 4-3 with 3 LBs on at least two downs. Something dramatic for next year ?

This has not cut it for a few years running ,and is the main reason Bills aren't finishing season in the SB. imho

So was this a Coaching error in adjustments to what they were doing ? Or were the Rams just that good? I say it was a mix and Rams played solid football for sure

First one to blame is the D-Line coach, then the defensive coordinator. Ultimately, this is Beanes fault for not addressing this need then and even now. Not too late to find someone…anyone who perhaps retired but may have 1 year left. Sean is not really a micromanager.

[Brand J]

11 minutes ago, Cubanmist said:

How many years does Oliver have left on his contract? What does it cost the Bills to release him at the end of the season? He is not worth all of that money. The Jets chose the right DT in the same year Oliver was drafted.

I’m not sure Quinnen Williams was worth the 3rd overall pick either. Dexter Lawrence (17th) and Jeffrey Simmons (19th) were absolute steals in that draft.