The root source of D problems is the D Line

[Gregg]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ive been saying it for the past 2 years...the difference between the Chiefs and Bills is Chris Jones.  

 

It's more than Chris Jones. The Chiefs defense as a group is better than the Bills. Also, Spags is a really good DC.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

The mantra of being 1/11th and do your job is just stupid. NFL games are won and lost when superstars make plays. No one says Chris Jones is 1/11th of the Chiefs defense. Same for TJ Watt. Bruce Smith and Reggie White were not 1/11ths. Even back end guys like Deion Sanders or Ed Reed needed to be accounted for. 

This team needs a superstar on defense particularly the DL.  Beane sat on his future draft picks and did nothing to help the DL. 

I get it that Beane swung for the fences with Miller. It didn't work because of injury not because the idea was wrong. 

Now we are again in SuperBowl contention and Beane did nothing to fix the DL. He did go get Cooper but that was a mess of his own doing. 

 

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, DCofNC said:
 

No team should EVER lose when their QB had 400+ yards and 6 TDs vs ZERO turn overs.  Allen may not be perfect, but this is just stupid.

Somebody said it's the first time it ever happened 

[Jauronimo]

Thanks, Ethan.

[WideNine]

6 hours ago, Tortured Soul said:

Why do people think we couldn’t stop the run? Rams ran for 3.3 YPC.

 

Sure we tightened up once we started to run blitz after they rolled downfield and scored...which pulled more players into the box and weakened coverage behind them.

 

The Rams, once they were up, did not need to scorch us with long runs, just run it enough to keep the pass rush on its heels and force our safety and nickel to fill and honor play action.

 

Our coaches were schooled and our d-line is not dominant enough to take on a good balanced offense.

 

Detroit could be real embarrassing, because they are exactly that kind of offense.

 

I was never really worried about our offense and Josh Allen this season. My concerns lie where they always have, coaching and our D (especially our front 4) pooping the bed against the good balanced offensive teams we run up against in the playoffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MikePJ76]

A lot of us have pointed out all spring, summer and fall we have an excellent team with an average Defensive line.

 

I personally do not understand why Von Miller gets so many snaps.  He doesn't seem to do much in the run game and he basically just gets run out wide on most pass rushes.  

 

I wish solomon would get some snaps over miller at this point.  To me Miller is one of the worst players on the active roster on sunday.

[Big Blitz]

 

[Brand J]

9 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yikes. T’Vondre Sweat, the Titans massive DT that went in the 2nd round, has 18 solo tackles himself with 38 assisted tackles. Could be Mt Washington part II.

[WideNine]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Always have been a DQ fan, but maybe he is playing hurt or just has finally hit that wall with age.

 

Oliver goes the way of the 1-tech playing next to him. If that guy can anchor, get some push, and force the double-team Oliver's numbers jump.

 

Without a dominant 1-tech next to him Oliver's numbers are usually more pedestrian.

 

Players may not like to hear it and I am sure they have professional pride, but it just "is what it is" till it ain't. They need to be better up front and/or we need a d-line coach that can help them identify and groom talent better.

 

I don't think there is any one player on our defensive line that actually scares teams. We have Rousseau who is solid and a force one on one, but that DT where teams just have to know where he is lining up and account for him... not so much.

 

Looking forward to Marino's all-22 review.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9 by WideNine

[mjt328]

15 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

The mantra of being 1/11th and do your job is just stupid. NFL games are won and lost when superstars make plays. No one says Chris Jones is 1/11th of the Chiefs defense. Same for TJ Watt. Bruce Smith and Reggie White were not 1/11ths. Even back end guys like Deion Sanders or Ed Reed needed to be accounted for. 

This team needs a superstar on defense particularly the DL.  Beane sat on his future draft picks and did nothing to help the DL. 

I get it that Beane swung for the fences with Miller. It didn't work because of injury not because the idea was wrong. 

Now we are again in SuperBowl contention and Beane did nothing to fix the DL. He did go get Cooper but that was a mess of his own doing. 

 

Who are the superstars on the Lions?  The Eagles?

 

Greg Rousseau and Christian Benford have played at an exceptional superstar level all season long.  Terrell Bernard has been a regular force in the middle.  The Bills have gotten All-Pro play out of guys like Matt Milano, Taron Johnson, Tre White, Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde over the years.  

 

I get what you are saying.  But the NFL has plenty of championship teams that didn't have someone like Chris Jones or TJ Watt on defense.  I would argue the New England Patriots never had that kind of player on defense during their ridiculous dynasty run.  Closest thing was probably Vince Wilfork, and he was more of a reliable anchor DT than someone who made big plays in big moments.

 

It's clear the Bills failure to make/win a Super Bowl can be traced back to the defense.  I'm just not so sure it's due to a lack of talent or lack of superstars.  There has to be SOME reason why EVERYONE on that side of the ball can play consistently strong 95% of a season, and then suddenly disappear for an entire game.   

 

[Mr. WEO]

Not just the D line.  The DBs got smoked in zone and they are too small and slow to play man

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Who are the superstars on the Lions?  The Eagles?

 

Greg Rousseau and Christian Benford have played at an exceptional superstar level all season long.  Terrell Bernard has been a regular force in the middle.  The Bills have gotten All-Pro play out of guys like Matt Milano, Taron Johnson, Tre White, Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde over the years.  

 

I get what you are saying.  But the NFL has plenty of championship teams that didn't have someone like Chris Jones or TJ Watt on defense.  I would argue the New England Patriots never had that kind of player on defense during their ridiculous dynasty run.  Closest thing was probably Vince Wilfork, and he was more of a reliable anchor DT than someone who made big plays in big moments.

 

It's clear the Bills failure to make/win a Super Bowl can be traced back to the defense.  I'm just not so sure it's due to a lack of talent or lack of superstars.  There has to be SOME reason why EVERYONE on that side of the ball can play consistently strong 95% of a season, and then suddenly disappear for an entire game.   

 

 

Good question.

 

Where talent is lacking teams have to make up for it with scheme and coaching.

 

I don't think the D has given up on Babich or McD, you can usually see that if you look for it, but the effort up front has been inconsistent.

 

McVay schooled our defensive coaching staff pulling all the right levers.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9 by WideNine

[WideNine]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Not just the D line.  The DBs got smoked in zone and they are too small and slow to play man

 

Yep.

 

The Rams key receivers were able to out muscle our DBs for balls and position.

 

Stafford was throwing into tight window after tight window too.

 

They also have the size and strength to be highly effective on the bubble screens, picks, and pushing off to create separation.

 

But folks knew that going in. Tough loss, made more so by how close Allen made it.

 

If we had not gotten smoked on that punt and pulled out the W would folks still care about the defensive weakness?

 

Dunno...for many a win is a win, and I can get the business for being too negative. I enjoy the wins too as overall we have a competitive team that can hang with most teams with Allen under center.

 

But some of us just like to look under the hood even if the car gets us to where we are going because we notice it is not running like it should and could break down where it is most inconvenient.

 

 

[Kelly to Allen]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

It's more than Chris Jones. The Chiefs defense as a group is better than the Bills. Also, Spags is a really good DC.

Last year they were. Not this year. Can't be the prisoner of the moment 

Edited December 9 by Kelly to Allen

[JAMIEBUF12]

Bills keep drafting fast undersized defensive tackles.

Bills need to draft bigger defensive tackles if they want to truly commit to stopping the run.

Bill Parcells once said football is real easy…

Run the ball and stop the run.

The weather gets bad here.

The Bills should be built to run the ball and to stop the run.

GO BILLS! 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Who are the superstars on the Lions?  The Eagles?

 

Greg Rousseau and Christian Benford have played at an exceptional superstar level all season long.  Terrell Bernard has been a regular force in the middle.  The Bills have gotten All-Pro play out of guys like Matt Milano, Taron Johnson, Tre White, Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde over the years.  

 

I get what you are saying.  But the NFL has plenty of championship teams that didn't have someone like Chris Jones or TJ Watt on defense.  I would argue the New England Patriots never had that kind of player on defense during their ridiculous dynasty run.  Closest thing was probably Vince Wilfork, and he was more of a reliable anchor DT than someone who made big plays in big moments.

 

It's clear the Bills failure to make/win a Super Bowl can be traced back to the defense.  I'm just not so sure it's due to a lack of talent or lack of superstars.  There has to be SOME reason why EVERYONE on that side of the ball can play consistently strong 95% of a season, and then suddenly disappear for an entire game.   

 

Wilfork is HOF eligible. Richard Seymour is in the HOF. Ty law is in the HOF. McGinest was a HOF finalist I believe. Harrison is a HOF finalist. All not there during the entire dynasty but certainly for some of it.

 

Rousseau makes PFF stats and not a lot of actual plays. I do like him as a player.  He is just horribly inconsistent.  Zero impact yesterday. Even Von made more impact than Rousseau yesterday. 

 

Taron is a great player and probably 2nd most skilled player on the team. Maybe 3rd after Cooper now. Bernard is wonderful but still has size limitations. 

Beane has tried but the just has not been able to find a true star on the DL. 

[The Wiz]

Leading tacklers yesterday were all the secondary and then Bernard.  On 29 running plays the secondary and Bernard had more than any one Dlineman.

[DCofNC]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Wilfork is HOF eligible. Richard Seymour is in the HOF. Ty law is in the HOF. McGinest was a HOF finalist I believe. Harrison is a HOF finalist. All not there during the entire dynasty but certainly for some of it.

 

Rousseau makes PFF stats and not a lot of actual plays. I do like him as a player.  He is just horribly inconsistent.  Zero impact yesterday. Even Von made more impact than Rousseau yesterday. 

 

Taron is a great player and probably 2nd most skilled player on the team. Maybe 3rd after Cooper now. Bernard is wonderful but still has size limitations. 

Beane has tried but the just has not been able to find a true star on the DL. 

Well said.   To put it another way, the Bills have a bunch of solid players and no stars.  Sometimes it comes down to having that guy(s) that get it done in big moments.  The difference between Allen , Mahomes and Burrow is just that, they come up big in big moments.  
 

Yes you CAN win with a solid team effort, but there’s a massive difference in the clutch when you have THAT GUY, to go get it.  The Bills D doesn’t have anyone at this juncture.  I love Groot, but he’s solid, not spectacular. The rest of the line is rotational talent.  Bernard is a heck of a player, but often washed out and Milano just looks washed right now.  Taron and Benford are both good, but we’ve seen them both beaten like a drum in the clutch too, I don’t want to take anything away from them, they are really good players, but the scheme typically doesn’t ask CBs to be big difference makers and therefore, they really aren’t,  very often.   The scheme will continue to keep this team squarely in purgatory while Allen is here.  Bad teams will screw up enough for them to win enough to make the playoffs, but when they have to go get a stop, you can bet they won’t get it done… AGAIN.

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Always have been a DQ fan, but maybe he is playing hurt or just has finally hit that wall with age.

 

Oliver goes the way of the 1-tech playing next to him. If that guy can anchor, get some push, and force the double-team Oliver's numbers jump.

 

Without a dominant 1-tech next to him Oliver's numbers are usually more pedestrian.

 

Players may not like to hear it and I am sure they have professional pride, but it just is what it is till it ain't. They need to be better up front and/or we need a d-line coach that can help them identify and groom talent better.

 

I don't think there is any one player on our defensive line that actually scares teams. We have Rousseau who is solid and a force one on one, but that DT where teams just have to know where he is lining up and account for him... not so much.

 

Looking forward to Marino's all-22 review.

 

 

 

 

 

Wide, I literally agree with every point.

[mjt328]

34 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Wilfork is HOF eligible. Richard Seymour is in the HOF. Ty law is in the HOF. McGinest was a HOF finalist I believe. Harrison is a HOF finalist. All not there during the entire dynasty but certainly for some of it.

 

How many times do you remember Richard Seymour, Willie McGinest or Vince Wilfork making the huge game-changing play on the D-Line that won New England the Super Bowl or even a big playoff game?  That's what we were talking about, correct?

 

None of those guys were elite game-wreckers.  They were good players who got HOF consideration because of their association with the Patriots.  

 

I'm not saying we can't upgrade on the D-Line.  I just don't think we NEED a TJ Watt, Myles Garrett or Chris Jones level player in order to win a Super Bowl.  We just need our good players like Greg Rousseau and Ed Oliver to not completely disappear in big games.