The root source of D problems is the D Line

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

53 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

 

 

Both Oliver and Daquan Jones were fine yesterday; the DT's behind them were not (although I would like to see Quinton Jefferson get some more snaps).

Yu want to see a shameful performance? Go watch film of that utterly pathetic effort from Greg Rousseau yesterday, absolutely horrible.

The Bills had far bigger problems in their secondary yesterday than they did up front.

Worst performance I've ever seen him have!

[Jauronimo]

24 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

This is simply not true.

Oliver had 3 tackles, led the team in QB hits and could be seen several times successfully anchoring against doubles and hustling downfield to run down ballcarriers.

Rousseau's only "play" was a single assisted tackle in the 4th qrtr (it was not a tfl) and he could be seen multiple times standing around unengaged, waiting for his teammates to finish plays.

Oliver has not been good this year, but he was not the problem yesterday.

Rousseau had another splash play late in the game when Puka Nacua drove him 5 yards downfield and the Rams converted on 3rd down to kill all remaining clock.

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Miami ran on us.  Baltimore.  Indianapolis.  Etc.  It is hardly “looking at one game”

 

Yep.  And the Rams both ran and threw on us.  This defense is suspect. 

 

Who are the playmakers? 

 

We don't have any stars or big names on defense kind of like Miami's '72 No-Name Defense.  Minus the shutouts.  And statistical excellence.  And undefeated record.  With Von and Milano playing at a level below their prime, this is a squad of jags.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, Gman10 said:

This place is weird, I said this yesterday before the game. I mentioned how our run D was weak and we would lose to KC or Ravens in playoffs and everyone talked so much junk to me. Im glad more and more of you are opening your eyes. Im not a great football analyst, but that one was obvious. Im hoping for a solid 26-27 Bills season/SB. Pick up a good WR, some defense and we will be solid.

 

go Bills!

Still don’t get the chiefs loss…if anything I think maybe we focused on beating the chiefs personnel wise a little too much which leaves us susceptible to teams that actually can pound the run. 
chiefs can’t even run that effectively on light boxes 

 

ravens would get our second half adjustments for 60 minutes in the playoffs I think…lots of run blitzes, challenging WRs and so on and given Lamar’s playoff history maybe it would work

 

i do think some of the issue is Milano knocking off the rust and he’s only getting a ton of snaps now so he’s ready to go in the playoffs 

[DCofNC]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Miami ran on us.  Baltimore.  Indianapolis.  Etc.  It is hardly “looking at one game”

Exactly, this is the SAME STORY every year, if they can’t sell out to stop either the pass or the run, they can’t stop anything.  It’s about as predictable as Lamar Jackson being forced to play from the pocket in the playoffs.  Once the heat turns up, this D doesn’t have enough to get it done.  They couldn’t stop either facet yesterday and got smoked by a .500 football team, while scoring over 40 pts, not turning the ball over and making Allen the first guy ever to post 3tds passing and 3 rushing TDs.  
 

No team should EVER lose when their QB had 400+ yards and 6 TDs vs ZERO turn overs.  Allen may not be perfect, but this is just stupid.

[dma0034]

It's pretty obvious that this Defense Performance was on the DEs, CBs and scheme.  The DEs didn't create any pressure which allowed Nacua and Kupp to get right where the holes were in the Defense. When the Bills decided to pressure more by blitzing the CBs could handle man to man duties on Nacua and Kupp. The scheme of soft zone sucks but when the Bills switched to Man coverage they didn't run any confusing coverage. The 4th down where the Bills took away Kupp and Nacua but allowed Atwell to get the First Down... I have no idea why the Bills didn't overload one side and drop to zone on the other side (where Kupp and Nacua weren't). 

Edited December 9 by dma0034

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, chef4131 said:

I do think its time for an Ed Oliver discussion   8 tkls this season and 1 sack   Am I wrong thinking we should have more production from him?  

 

I'd try to trade him.  Too much money tied up in him for what a rookie or lower priced vet could produce.  Spend that money on offense, since we need to win shootouts.  

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

 

 

Both Oliver and Daquan Jones were fine yesterday; the DT's behind them were not (although I would like to see Quinton Jefferson get some more snaps).

Yu want to see a shameful performance? Go watch film of that utterly pathetic effort from Greg Rousseau yesterday, absolutely horrible.

The Bills had far bigger problems in their secondary yesterday than they did up front.

 

I'm not sure if "fine" is correct for Ed and Daquan (neither did anything of note), but there were not as bad as Greg R.  

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

The big fear amongst Bills Mafia is that yesterday's game was only a preview of what will happen (again) in the postseason.  

 

Yep this game definitely brought back my fear that McDermott's scheme is not a playoff scheme. Smart experienced QBs with smart offensive coaches have regularly not just moved the ball on us but dominated us without any resistance. QBs in those games have easy answers available to them at all times and we never make the right adjustments to slow them down.

 

We had a similarly poor defensive plan against the Ravens. The reigning excuse from that one was that we were missing too many defensive starters to be competitive. Turns out even when all our starters are out there we are still capable of getting steamrolled like that.

[Gman10]

23 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Still don’t get the chiefs loss…if anything I think maybe we focused on beating the chiefs personnel wise a little too much which leaves us susceptible to teams that actually can pound the run. 
chiefs can’t even run that effectively on light boxes 

 

ravens would get our second half adjustments for 60 minutes in the playoffs I think…lots of run blitzes, challenging WRs and so on and given Lamar’s playoff history maybe it would work

 

i do think some of the issue is Milano knocking off the rust and he’s only getting a ton of snaps now so he’s ready to go in the playoffs 

Absolutely. But if Lamar is on in the playoffs, Derek Henry is a nightmare to stop in general. He is one of the best in the league, and Harbaugh is a better coach than McD. 
 

I really think next year we will get some good rookies give them a year to develop and in 26 I believe we will look incredible

[LarryMadman]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

DLine got dominated.  They could not stop the run, and they could not pressure Stafford.  I’m talking to you Ed Oliver and DaQuan.  Shameful performance.  It’s hardly the first time DL has failed us this year.  DL is the Achilles heel of a loaded Bills team, led by Josh Allen.

Yup and they were basically all hand picked by the head coach for rotational reasons.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No you are not. And in the past he has been a guy where the raw numbers haven't reflected how well he has played. That isn't the case this year. He has not played well enough. Full stop.

 

They blitzed lots yesterday. Probably the most they have all year. It was a disaster.

 

 

Agree on both.  The blitzes were utterly ineffective.  

 

As for Oliver.......I suspect he had a bump last year because he had approached the 2023 season like it was going to be a walk year.  We tend to forget because he signed during summer but he'd spent 6 months prepping to earn a big pay day on the field.  Nothing like a walk year to get players in the best condition and mindset of their lives and most of that hay was in the barn by August.    It's hard to use the excuse of not having good 1 tech production this season because Jones missed most of last season and Oliver played well despite that.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yep this game definitely brought back my fear that McDermott's scheme is not a playoff scheme. Smart experienced QBs with smart offensive coaches have regularly not just moved the ball on us but dominated us without any resistance. QBs in those games have easy answers available to them at all times and we never make the right adjustments to slow them down.

 

We had a similarly poor defensive plan against the Ravens. The reigning excuse from that one was that we were missing too many defensive starters to be competitive. Turns out even when all our starters are out there we are still capable of getting steamrolled like that.

Honestly it’s probably good it happened in the regular season…i would argue the problem was we didn’t sell out to stop anything in the first half so the rams could do whatever they wanted pretty successfully 
 

the second half felt like guys were at least in position to make plays but Stafford was just playing out of his mind and his receivers were making ridiculous plays. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Not saying at all that he's not playing hard. He just isn't making the sort of plays that he's paid to make, and that was the case yesterday too. Maybe my standards are too high for him, but "almost" plays aren't good enough, especially when he's made those actual plays in the past.

 

What makes it worse is that perhaps the Rams most vulnerable spot on the entire team is their interior OL pass blocking.   Avlia and Limmer are among the very worst interior pass blockers in the entire NFL.  Shameful performance from the DT's.

 

[VW82]

Some similar rhetoric itt as other threads about how we don't get any pressure or sacks. Did you guys not watch the game?? Our main issues were our inability to stop the run early, then play action, then all the misdirection (i.e. jet sweeps, etc.), and the fact we hardly made any adjustments (double Puka, anyone?) to stop the quick hitters. You actually have to slow down that stuff before you even have the opportunity to pressure a QB.

 

Carter had a rough first half. Ouch. Dline had a tough day across the board. Milano and Bernard were just as culpable imo. But at some point you have to give your defense a chance with scheme. We tried to selectively blitz on a couple of tries in the 2nd half and couldn't get home. That's not enough. 

 

I've been wondering for weeks whether McD is essentially saving his bullets for the postseason. We've seen him adjust scheme to opponents before, just not this year. Has he truly embraced the bend but don't break defense at all costs? We've made small adjustments like Bernard/Kelce on scrambles. No real scheme adjustments. If we really are holding cards, who's to say we'll be any good at executing a primarily man scheme or heavy blitz packages when the time comes given we've hardly done that in game settings this year? Rams easily picked up six rushers on that long Stafford to Cupp connection over the middle that was flagged anyway. 

 

Bernard and Taron Johnson are keys to this defense. They are both undersized and have looked outmatched a surprising amount this season, yesterday most of all. Milano might be washed. Arguably our best man corner doesn't even dress anymore. I bring all this up to point out that there's more going on here than just "Dline didn't get any pressure."

 

     

Edited December 9 by VW82

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Exactly, this is the SAME STORY every year, if they can’t sell out to stop either the pass or the run, they can’t stop anything.  It’s about as predictable as Lamar Jackson being forced to play from the pocket in the playoffs.  Once the heat turns up, this D doesn’t have enough to get it done.  They couldn’t stop either facet yesterday and got smoked by a .500 football team, while scoring over 40 pts, not turning the ball over and making Allen the first guy ever to post 3tds passing and 3 rushing TDs.  
 

No team should EVER lose when their QB had 400+ yards and 6 TDs vs ZERO turn overs.  Allen may not be perfect, but this is just stupid.

Just saw on GMFB that entering the game, teams that scored 6 TDs and had 0 giveaways in the SB era were 245-0. Bills are the first team to lose in that scenario.

[KOKBILLS]

5 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Historically Oliver doesn't play well when the 1 tech struggles next to him.   

 

You can say that again! 

Edited December 9 by KOKBILLS

[mjt328]

40 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Yep this game definitely brought back my fear that McDermott's scheme is not a playoff scheme. Smart experienced QBs with smart offensive coaches have regularly not just moved the ball on us but dominated us without any resistance. QBs in those games have easy answers available to them at all times and we never make the right adjustments to slow them down.

 

We had a similarly poor defensive plan against the Ravens. The reigning excuse from that one was that we were missing too many defensive starters to be competitive. Turns out even when all our starters are out there we are still capable of getting steamrolled like that.

 

My confusion is... I don't know if the problem is the scheme.

Lots of other teams have found championship success with a similar-style defense to the Bills.  And very few teams run this scheme with the expertise and perfection as we usually do.  

 

We've seen various levels of aggression and playcalling combos with Leslie Frazier, McDermott himself and now Bobby Babich.  This year we are seeing more adjustments than in the years past.  The defense couldn't get pressure in the first half with 4 guys.  They blitzed more in the second half, and still couldn't get to Stafford.  They usually play zone.  But I saw lots of man coverage throughout the game.  Nickel, Dime.  And they still got picked apart easily.

 

The Ravens just steamrolled us with their running game earlier this season.  But against the Rams, it was mostly the passing game (not that our rush defense was halfway decent either).

 

For some inexplicable reason, this defense plays at a consistently high-level season after season, for about 95% of the year, even with tons of backups forced into the lineup... and then somehow puts together 1-2 games where it's like every player on that side of the ball is being affected by a voodoo curse and forgot how to play football.

 

[NewEra]

Similar to each year in our playoff losses.  The DL doesn’t win and is a big part of us losing.  
 

gotta make plays.  Especially on 3rd downs.  Last night-  the rams made plays on third downs- partly because our DL couldn’t get there

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Annual Rousseau disappearing act

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

DLine got dominated.  They could not stop the run, and they could not pressure Stafford.  I’m talking to you Ed Oliver and DaQuan.  Shameful performance.  It’s hardly the first time DL has failed us this year.  DL is the Achilles heel of a loaded Bills team, led by Josh Allen.

 

Ive been saying it for the past 2 years...the difference between the Chiefs and Bills is Chris Jones.