The root source of D problems is the D Line

[Jester]

1 hour ago, Chicharito said:

Jordan Phillips needed to be in the lineup. Say what you want about him but he clogs holes.

Was he a healthy scratch or hurt?  Hope he's available for the Lions game. 

[Rich Stadium Original]

As I wrote in a different thread, Rousseau is supposed to be your best D lineman..but statistically one of the worst, having no sacks and just one tackle.  Although he made a few plays, Epenesa quite frequently took bad angles opening up the edge and big plays

[dorquemada]

5 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

greeeeeeat

 

 

"And with the 28th pick in the draft, the Buffalo Bills select Randolph Mcgillicudy, the undersized high motor EDGE from East Pennsyltucky State.  Boy we sure weren't expecting him to go this high!"

[Gregg]

Just now, dorquemada said:

 

"And with the 28th pick in the draft, the Buffalo Bills select Randolph Mcgillicudy, the undersized high motor EDGE from East Pennsyltucky State.  Boy we sure weren't expecting him to go this high!"

 

I wish Beane and McDermott would change their philosophy when it comes to defense. We need a bigger, more physical defense that is built to stop the run and get after the QB. Think Steelers defense. This smaller, finesse type of defense we have doesn't work against the better teams.

[colin]

7 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

This defense is unexplainable.

 

Every year, they are statistically a Top 5-10 unit across the entire NFL.  (Even after yesterday's debacle which dropped them way down the list, they are still ranked #8 in scoring defense, #1 in turnovers and #9 against the pass).  Their adjusted numbers are even better on most advanced analytical sites.  The Bills have multiple games each season where they totally confuse and harass elite veteran QBs and coaches.  Even ones who see them all the time.  A great example is Andy Reid/Patrick Mahomes just a few weeks ago.  

 

Yet somehow, we also have 1-2 times every season (and always in the playoffs)... where this defense performs no better than putting a bunch of traffic cones on the field.  Not just bad.  Not just terrible.  But absolutely incapable of getting stops ALL GAME LONG.  Every team has bad moments and bad games.  But the Bills push it to the absolute extreme.  How is it possible to play at such a high level for 15-16 games, and then suddenly morph into the most inept unit in the entire NFL for four quarters.  It's baffling to me.

 

Yesterday's performance was pathetic.  I hear what you are saying about the D-Line.  But the Bills couldn't generate the slightest pressure when they blitzed either.  Guys were WIDE open all over the field, even with us grabbing jerseys.  Zone defense or in man coverage, defensive backs couldn't make a play to save their lives.  I don't think anyone was able to get off a block all day.  And tackling was ridiculously awful.  

 

I don't want to hear about the lack of elite playmakers on the D-Line either.  There are only a handful of guys in the NFL like TJ Watt, Myles Garrett or Chris Jones, and very few teams can boast having someone like that on the roster.  Our talent on the front line is absolutely comparable to other top teams like the Lions and Eagles.  Yet somehow even on their worst days, those teams can find ways to at least get a couple stops.  

 

The big fear amongst Bills Mafia is that yesterday's game was only a preview of what will happen (again) in the postseason.  

 

 

you are right, but this particular game was a bit special.

 

the rams have the best pressure rate in the nfl.  they've not been good vs the run.  on running downs their coaches smoked our coaches with the rock paper scissors game.  they knew what we were trying to do and just consistently mashed it up.  on passing downs, they barely ever got to allen, and let him buy tons of time over and over.  some of that was them doing a containment rush and playing coverage deep, but an other big part of that is the refs let offensive holding go a whole lot more than they called it.  we tend to notice it more when it doesn't get called vs our guys, but even on the replay on the long RB pass TD, hollis just grabbed the hell out of the guys collar he was "blocking".

 

when our d is not creative, does not play stunts and games upfront, does not disguise coverage, and does not threaten some kind of effective blitz or dog, we get less turnovers and we kind of fall apart.

 

To me when our team isn't playing d with confidence we see what we saw.  clutching and grabbing in teh secondary, biting on play action, etc.  also, our d tries to cover every blade of grass on the field from multiple formations, so they need to communicate.  milano being super rusty doesn't help that.

 

babich (presuming mcd gives him enough rope) got caught out vs baltimore and just never recovered.  same thing happened yesterday.  my silver lining is that we got the super man josh game but d and coaching collapse game out of the way before the playoffs.

 

we really seem to have these more often on the road than at home, so if we fluke into the 1 seed by kc finally losing these tough games and us running the table from here on out that should help.

[dorquemada]

3 minutes ago, Rich Stadium Original said:

As I wrote in a different thread, Rousseau is supposed to be your best D lineman..but statistically one of the worst, having no sacks and just one tackle.  Although he made a few plays, Epenesa quite frequently took bad angles opening up the edge and big plays

 

Seriously, it was keystone kops out there.  Our DL made Stafford look like the second coming of Michael Vick.  Given how long it took the whole team to get into the game, I'm going to go on and assume they had a late night in LA.  We've seen that before.

[Danger Mouse]

1 hour ago, Tortured Soul said:

Why do people think we couldn’t stop the run? Rams ran for 3.3 YPC.

 

The stats are deceptive. When we stop it we REALLY stop it. But when we don't we really don't. We either seems to let RBs go for 15 yards or stop them before the line of scrimmage. So while the average looks respectable, the truth is that the 1 in 4 running plays that beats us is killing us time and time again. 

[Process]

D line is McBeane's achilles heal. 

 

I have zero faith in them to ever get it right. 

 

It's been 8 years of endless resources, bad contracts and verry little production.

[Returntoglory]

This continual rush 4 crap has to stop.

[mjt328]

7 minutes ago, colin said:

 

 

you are right, but this particular game was a bit special.

 

the rams have the best pressure rate in the nfl.  they've not been good vs the run.  on running downs their coaches smoked our coaches with the rock paper scissors game.  they knew what we were trying to do and just consistently mashed it up.  on passing downs, they barely ever got to allen, and let him buy tons of time over and over.  some of that was them doing a containment rush and playing coverage deep, but an other big part of that is the refs let offensive holding go a whole lot more than they called it.  we tend to notice it more when it doesn't get called vs our guys, but even on the replay on the long RB pass TD, hollis just grabbed the hell out of the guys collar he was "blocking".

 

when our d is not creative, does not play stunts and games upfront, does not disguise coverage, and does not threaten some kind of effective blitz or dog, we get less turnovers and we kind of fall apart.

 

To me when our team isn't playing d with confidence we see what we saw.  clutching and grabbing in teh secondary, biting on play action, etc.  also, our d tries to cover every blade of grass on the field from multiple formations, so they need to communicate.  milano being super rusty doesn't help that.

 

babich (presuming mcd gives him enough rope) got caught out vs baltimore and just never recovered.  same thing happened yesterday.  my silver lining is that we got the super man josh game but d and coaching collapse game out of the way before the playoffs.

 

we really seem to have these more often on the road than at home, so if we fluke into the 1 seed by kc finally losing these tough games and us running the table from here on out that should help.

 

It's OK to sometimes have a bad game.  Happens to everyone.

It's really not OK to have performances like yesterday.  Ever.  

And we seem to have it happen a couple times every season.

 

Remember the perfect game we had against the Patriots in the Wild Card game.  The defense is basically playing 95% of that bad.  

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, chef4131 said:

I do think its time for an Ed Oliver discussion   8 tkls this season and 1 sack   Am I wrong thinking we should have more production from him?  

 

No you are not. And in the past he has been a guy where the raw numbers haven't reflected how well he has played. That isn't the case this year. He has not played well enough. Full stop.

2 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

This continual rush 4 crap has to stop.

 

They blitzed lots yesterday. Probably the most they have all year. It was a disaster.

[T master]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

DLine got dominated.  They could not stop the run, and they could not pressure Stafford.  I’m talking to you Ed Oliver and DaQuan.  Shameful performance.  It’s hardly the first time DL has failed us this year.  DL is the Achilles heel of a loaded Bills team, led by Josh Allen.

 

For what they are paying Ed he needs to give the team more in games like this he is in no way living up to his draft status or what he's getting paid, he is easily shut down by most teams he's just to small weight wise apparently to take on guys that out weigh him by 30 to 40 lbs .

 

I thought they did better last week when they had Phillips in the center of the D line, maybe it's because i am a fan of Phillips but he is much bigger and one would think a bit harder to move and takes up more space . Both him & the other guy they brought in (can't remember his name) that use to play for the Bills and brought him back did really good for not being there until a week ago .

 

If the Bills want to make it to the big game Josh can put up points enough to win but if the D can't stop the other team from scoring they can cash it in ! Yesterdays loss was on the D & ST's not Josh and the offense !! 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I think we had a lot of trouble with their rushing attack in the first half because of all the jet motion, and getting gashed on play action and boundary throws.  They played really well on 3rd down for the entire game.  Called good plays, executed to perfection, kupp and nacua played amazing.  It's ok to say hats off to them.  

[Billever76]

I disagree.. McDermott is the issue with yesterday! How stubborn do you have to be to watch Stafford sit back and destroy a soft zone defense only to keep running that soft zone defense 

[Billever76]

45 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

I wish Beane and McDermott would change their philosophy when it comes to defense. We need a bigger, more physical defense that is built to stop the run and get after the QB. Think Steelers defense. This smaller, finesse type of defense we have doesn't work against the better teams.

It's MCDERMOTT entire defensive approach that has assembled this defense! bean is just the shopper.. McDermott writes the list! McDermott soft nickle is this teams Achilles heel esp come playoffs when every team is good to elite!

Edited December 9 by Billever76

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

It's MCDERMOTT entire defensive approach that has assembled this defense! bean is just the shopper.. McDermott writes the list! McDermott soft nickle is this teams Achilles heel esp come playoffs when every team is good to elite!

 

If its McDermott or Beane or both it needs to change. This smaller, finesse type of defense gets killed against the better teams/QB's. History over the years in the playoffs proves it.

[All_Pro_Bills]

12 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

It's MCDERMOTT entire defensive approach that has assembled this defense! bean is just the shopper.. McDermott writes the list! McDermott soft nickle is this teams Achilles heel esp come playoffs when every team is good to elite!

I think this is part of rhe problem. McDermott's system seems to depend on mistakes by the opponent offense. Turnovers, penalties, and execution errors. Good teams usually don't give you much. Especially in the playoffs. They out-execute the Bills with superior talent and performance. And I'll throw is bigger, stronger, and  faster overall defense.

 

Edited December 9 by All_Pro_Bills

[Nihilarian]

38 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Seriously, it was keystone kops out there.  Our DL made Stafford look like the second coming of Michael Vick.  Given how long it took the whole team to get into the game, I'm going to go on and assume they had a late night in LA.  We've seen that before.

I have a theory if you will...indulge my conjecture, speculation, hypothesis, supposition. I surmise that Rams HC Sean McVay is a genius. The man hired a fleet of beautiful seductive call girls and bribed the Buffalo Bills security staff at their hotel to look the other way or even perhaps indulge themselves in all the free goodies.

 

What do they say, while the cats are away? The only way this makes any kind of sense to me is that the Buffalo defensive player's legs were gone!!!!!!! They couldn't keep up with the Rams receivers. They had no turnovers, no interceptions, and no sacks on a 38-year-old QB with a middling to bad offensive line ranked in the 20's. 

 

The Rams offense usually can't stay on the field on 3rd down and yet owned that vaunted Buffalo defense noted for pressure on the QB and a turnover in every game. 

 

Time of possession for this game, Rams 38:30 to Buffalo 20:30. This is with a 20th-ranked Rams offense and 24th-ranked Rams defense. 

 

I realize that these are grown-ass men and do need to indulge at times. Still, there should have been a serious curfew before the game.

[Back2Buff]

21 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

I disagree.. McDermott is the issue with yesterday! How stubborn do you have to be to watch Stafford sit back and destroy a soft zone defense only to keep running that soft zone defense 

 

McDermott isn't the D coordinator.  I wish he would take the reins back.  Babich is lost.

[RichRiderBills]

21 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

It's MCDERMOTT entire defensive approach that has assembled this defense! bean is just the shopper.. McDermott writes the list! McDermott soft nickle is this teams Achilles heel esp come playoffs when every team is good to elite!

 

 

So there is some credence to the overall mcd blame. 

 

Our defensive line was a huge problem yesterday, given the philosophy of our D....this is set by the head coach. 

 

No pressure led to no mistakes by Rams. No run stop and no big plays on D to limit 3rd and long. Yesterday, we were even uncharacteristically bad on 3rd down and in the red zone, again a lot to do given how we run with no pressure. 

 

Usually, the factors needed to see success against us don't all manifest. Give up tons of yards, but make them go on long drives, play sound football and you will get some stops or mistakes. 

 

We usually put together 3-4 stops per game, or generate a few turnovers, or put you in some long distances 3rd downs where we can hold you off . A QB usually doesn't play perfect and guys around him don't play perfect and never fumble or commit penalties. 

 

This is all framed by the fact we have a good offense that will score and keep opposing offenses reactive and be a huge burden to keep up with. 

 

Big problem was this didn't work yesterday, and occasionally fails. 

 

In some ways it has happened before ...13 seconds being one, or in a few other games like Ravens and Colts a few years back. Bengals playoff game was another where what we do just totally did not work. 

 

Also- McD bad clock management or strategy has manifested in at least 3 right games I can recall- Texans game this year, 13 seconds, and this game. 

Edited December 9 by RichRiderBills