Ok on to Detroit....

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't know. The only offenses we've played this year that were fully healthy and capable of elite production were Baltimore, Miami, and LA. We saw how those games went for our defense. I don't think it's a matter of the players just digging deep and finding a way. I think there are fundamental issues with the talent and the scheme that get exposed by talented offenses.

Bill B was speaking a month or two ago about the Bills D and said that a) they’re slow on the back 7 and b) McDermott’s system is all about the centrality of d-line anyway. The d-line is very mediocre this year, and it is a talent issue above all else.

[HappyDays]

18 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I agree and think the root cause of the problem is McDermott's limited flexibility.

 

Yeah I have said that for years. When we face smart QBs with talent around them, they always appear to have easy answers with where to throw the ball. We don't disrupt the reads or make them hesitate at all.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

McD seemed a bit short, testy, and defensive in his PC. 

Don't think he likes being questioned about Elam.

Then admits his team didn't have the intensity to match Rams. Easy to blame the coaches but these guys are professionals. They should not need to be motivated to play. Even I give McD a pass on that. 

Followed by we are "having a darn good season". He said the same thing after KC playoff loss last January. I think he has heard the quips about wasting Allen... Media narrative is changing on how good his defense is to how he is wasting Allen...

[CaliBills]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I have said that for years. When we face smart QBs with talent around them, they always appear to have easy answers with where to throw the ball. We don't disrupt the reads or make them hesitate at all.

 

When the D-Line doesn't get pressure with 4 rushers, our defense is easier to move the ball on.  

 

Even if the QB is smart and there is talent, if we are getting to the QB, that changes everything.  

 

We need a JJ Watt, Chris Jones, Myles Garret type player that can wreck a game plan quickly and make the QB always feel like they need to watch that side. 

[Big Turk]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't know. The only offenses we've played this year that were fully healthy and capable of elite production were Baltimore, Miami, and LA. We saw how those games went for our defense. I don't think it's a matter of the players just digging deep and finding a way. I think there are fundamental issues with the talent and the scheme that get exposed by talented offenses.

 

We clocked the Dolphins in their first meeting at home.

 

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I have said that for years. When we face smart QBs with talent around them, they always appear to have easy answers with where to throw the ball. We don't disrupt the reads or make them hesitate at all.

 

This wasn't true earlier in his career when he had more defensive talent.

 

We used to make very good offenses look like trash routinely.

 

See the Ravens game in 2019.

 

Edited December 11 by Big Turk

[Nineforty]

Some need to make up their minds. 

 

Do you trust McD and Co. in regards to the secondary? Or do you not?

 

Seen multiple people say one thing and then proceed to still not trust them by adding their Elam comment.

 

My take? If there is a process to trust, it is the mother-efing secondary evaluations.

 

If they think Elam is the best option to start, he will start. If he isn't the best option in their opinion, he doesn't. Why make it more complex or conspiratorial?

 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

21 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Bill B was speaking a month or two ago about the Bills D and said that a) they’re slow on the back 7 and b) McDermott’s system is all about the centrality of d-line anyway. The d-line is very mediocre this year, and it is a talent issue above all else.

 

DL was disappointing on Sunday but I don't recall many instances where Stafford was holding the ball for that long. Felt like he immediately knew where to go with it on every drop back.

 

I'm pretty sure I also remember Belichick saying that our defense isn't that creative, that our one and only gimmick is showing one coverage then switching to another post-snap which is just not enough to get it done against smart QBs. The failed delayed blitzes on Sunday were another symptom of the same problem. They were all telegraphed and Stafford easily read them and threw to the vacated area.

 

I accept that our defensive players were not up to snuff and that the Rams offensive players made some outstanding individual plays, but I don't accept that our defensive coaching had no part in the Rams putting up 40+ points. The talent discrepancy is not THAT stark, I mean really.

 

Edited December 11 by HappyDays

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

DL was disappointing on Sunday but I don't recall many instances where Stafford was holding the ball for that long. Felt like he immediately knew where to go with it on every drop back.

 

I'm pretty sure I also remember Belichick saying that our defense isn't that creative, that our one and only gimmick is showing one coverage then switching to another post-snap which is just not enough to get it done against smart QBs. The failed delayed blitzes on Sunday were another symptom of the same problem. They were all telegraphed and Stafford easily read them and threw to the vacated area.

 

I accept that our players were not up to snuff and that the Rams players made some outstanding plays, but I don't accept that our defensive coaching had no part in the Rams putting up 40+ points. The talent discrepancy is not THAT stark, I mean really.

 

 

I think it's too much of a generality to say the DL is ineffective.

 

We have seen games where they played very well...against KC for instance and pretty much wrecked Mahomes pocket all game and made him uncomfortable.

 

I would say it's more that they succeed against certain types of OLines better than they do against others...

[finn]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I accept that our players were not up to snuff and that the Rams players made some outstanding plays, but I don't accept that our defensive coaching had no part in the Rams putting up 40+ points. The talent discrepancy is not THAT stark, I mean really.

 

Agree. The Rams game was pretty disheartening. It had more the feeling of a defense exposed as opposed to one having a bad day. If that's the case, inspired play won't help much. The only path forward is to outscore everyone from here on. I think Allen was sincere in his presser when he said he had to do better. With the book written on this defense, he will need to score on every drive, at least against good teams. 

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

DL was disappointing on Sunday but I don't recall many instances where Stafford was holding the ball for that long. Felt like he immediately knew where to go with it on every drop back.

 

I'm pretty sure I also remember Belichick saying that our defense isn't that creative, that our one and only gimmick is showing one coverage then switching to another post-snap which is just not enough to get it done against smart QBs. The failed delayed blitzes on Sunday were another symptom of the same problem. They were all telegraphed and Stafford easily read them and threw to the vacated area.

 

I accept that our players were not up to snuff and that the Rams players made some outstanding plays, but I don't accept that our defensive coaching had no part in the Rams putting up 40+ points. The talent discrepancy is not THAT stark, I mean really.

 

 

To me that game was more about many of the players on D all having one of their worst games of the season at the same time.

 

You are going to have games like that every year. No way around it. It happened on offense against Houston.

 

The key is how do they respond after it. That's what is important.

 

46 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Bills are tied right now with Pittsburgh. Right now, Bills win tiebreaker:

 

(Bills) Wins tie break over Pittsburgh based on strength of victory.

 

Does that some how change with other tiebreakers later on??

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/standings/_/view/playoff

 

Strength of Victory is the 4th tiebreaker. Much better chance Bills win a tie at the end by Conference Record which is the 2nd tie breaker or Record vs. Common Opponents with is the 3rd tie breaker.

 

1st tie breaker is head to head which obviously doesn't apply since we haven't played them.

Edited December 11 by Big Turk

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

Some need to make up their minds. 

 

Do you trust McD and Co. in regards to the secondary? Or do you not?

 

Seen multiple people say one thing and then proceed to still not trust them by adding their Elam comment.

 

My take? If there is a process to trust, it is the mother-efing secondary evaluations.

 

If they think Elam is the best option to start, he will start. If he isn't the best option in their opinion, he doesn't. Why make it more complex or conspiratorial?

 

 

 

 

I think the worry is that McDermott's decisions may be blinded by something else. In particular Hamlin's death and recovery, and then whatever beef he has with Elam that may not be performance related(pure speculation). 

Our issues are he sticks with guys like Trent Murphy who are so bad they aren't even in the league after starting for three years. And then there is Teller and Peterman. He has had enough horrible personel decisions that it is not unreasonable to question his decisions. 

[zow2]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

DL was disappointing on Sunday but I don't recall many instances where Stafford was holding the ball for that long. Felt like he immediately knew where to go with it on every drop back.

 

 

He's not fast but he was able to roll right unimpeded and release a nice accurate throw whenever he needed to.  The Dline or LBs just gave him a free pass.  Goff will do the same and he's probably even more accurate.

 

Don't forget the rush defense either.  McCaffrey was maybe going to hit 200 yards in that snow game if he didn't get hurt.   He was rolling with huge chunks.  Then the Bills built a nice lead and SF became one dimensional.  The Lions have two excellent backs. 

 

Look, the entire D laid an egg on Sunday.    I think they show some pride vs Detroit and play better, I really do.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

To me that game was more about many of the players on D all having one of their worst games of the season at the same time.

 

You are going to have games like that every year. No way around it. It happened on offense against Houston.

 

The key is how do they respond after it. That's what is important.

 

 

Strength of Victory is the 4th tiebreaker. Much better chance Bills win a tie at the end by Conference Record which is the 2nd tie breaker or Record vs. Common Opponents with is the 3rd tie breaker.

 

1st tie breaker is head to head which obviously doesn't apply since we haven't played them.

R u sure? I think 2nd tie breaker is common opponents and that is Ravens, Colts, Jets, and Chiefs.  Like I said in another thread very likely we are rooting for Chiefs on Christmas day!

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

"Everything's earned". Sean McDermott 

Unless your Matt Milano, you can step in right away without proving your ready

[Logic]

50 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't know. The only offenses we've played this year that were fully healthy and capable of elite production were Baltimore, Miami, and LA. We saw how those games went for our defense. I don't think it's a matter of the players just digging deep and finding a way. I think there are fundamental issues with the talent and the scheme that get exposed by talented offenses.

An interesting thing I saw on Twitter, but have since lost, and do not know how/where to verify:

All three teams that beat us this year are in the top 10 of the NFL in usage of condensed sets on offense. Condensed sets specifically seem to give our defense a lot of trouble. 

The bad news, if this is true? The Lions are 4th in the NFL in usage of condensed sets on offense.

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I think the worry is that McDermott's decisions may be blinded by something else. In particular Hamlin's death and recovery, and then whatever beef he has with Elam that may not be performance related(pure speculation). 

Our issues are he sticks with guys like Trent Murphy who are so bad they aren't even in the league after starting for three years. And then there is Teller and Peterman. He has had enough horrible personel decisions that it is not unreasonable to question his decisions. 

 

McD values reliability and confidence you will be in the right position and do your job properly in each play more than anything.

 

His whole defense is predicated on 11 guys all working in sync properly and all doing what they are supposed to do more than most defenses do.

 

Cole Bishop learned first hand after his gaffe against Houston led to the Nico Collins long TD and he hasn't be seen from again except in mop up duty.

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

R u sure? I think 2nd tie breaker is common opponents and that is Ravens, Colts, Jets, and Chiefs.  Like I said in another thread very likely we are rooting for Chiefs on Christmas day!

 

No it's not. 2nd tie breaker is conference record. And even if that was true, if we beat the Jets the best the Steelers could do would be to tie us since they already lost to the Colts and we would be 4-1 with our only loss being to the Ravens.

Edited December 11 by Big Turk

[transplantbillsfan]

57 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't know. The only offenses we've played this year that were fully healthy and capable of elite production were Baltimore, Miami, and LA. We saw how those games went for our defense. I don't think it's a matter of the players just digging deep and finding a way. I think there are fundamental issues with the talent and the scheme that get exposed by talented offenses.

 

Our D absolutely annihilated the Dolphins at full strength in week 2 this season when the team was at full strength. 

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

To me that game was more about many of the players on D all having one of their worst games of the season at the same time.

 

Sure that is possible. But you're talking multiple good to great players like Taron, Benford, Bernard, Rousseau all getting completely abused throughout the day. One player can have a bad day and it is just that, but multiple players having a bad day speaks to a more systemic problem IMO.

[Big Turk]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Sure that is possible. But you're talking multiple good to great players like Taron, Benford, Bernard, Rousseau all getting completely abused throughout the day. One player can have a bad day and it is just that, but multiple players having a bad day speaks to a more systemic problem IMO.

 

Seemed to me they were basking in their glow of winning the AFC East the week before and were very unfocused.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Logic said:

An interesting thing I saw on Twitter, but have since lost, and do not know how/where to verify:

All three teams that beat us this year are in the top 10 of the NFL in usage of condensed sets on offense. Condensed sets specifically seem to give our defense a lot of trouble. 

The bad news, if this is true? The Lions are 4th in the NFL in usage of condensed sets on offense.

My takeaway: the Bills need to score a lot of points on Sunday.