Fire McD and Hire Belichek after we lose AGAIN in the playoffs

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, JPL7 said:

Nobody was saying Daboll was going to be an unbelievable head coach. He had just kind of earned his stripes from doing the job as a coordinator. Ben Johnson is somebody that looks like he could be a coaching genius. Much like Sean McVay when he was coming up.

 

If this is the case, then let's hope he stays out of the AFC East and AFC in general. I don't think the Bills are moving on from McDermott anytime soon.

[JPL7]

Just now, Dr. K said:

These "fire McDermott" responses after any loss at all are more predictable than the sun coming up in the morning. 

 

They are tiresome beyond words. 

Not more tiresome than endless clock management issues consistently year after year that cost the bills big games. Enjoy your mediocrity train there pal.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Dr. K said:

These "fire McDermott" responses after any loss at all are more predictable than the sun coming up in the morning. 

 

They are tiresome beyond words. 

 

In fairness, the title does say "AFTER we lose in the playoffs".

 

I think this was supposed to be more about McD's continual botching of in-game decisions and strategy, and how it hasnt improved, and will likely rear it's ugly head again in the playoffs.

[JPL7]

Here’s my thing… What about McDermott makes you guys think he’s the guy that’s going to win a Super Bowl? That’s what it all comes down to! He’s done a great job of turning this team around and making this franchise competitive. No doubt! But do you actually believe he can win a Super Bowl?

Edited December 10 by JPL7

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

If this is the case, then let's hope he stays out of the AFC East and AFC in general. I don't think the Bills are moving on from McDermott anytime soon.

 

I dont think they are either. But he would be perfect going back to Carolina. Assuming Tepper was 1. smart enough to hire McD and 2. humble enough to stay out of his way. Two big asks.

[JPL7]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

In fairness, the title does say "AFTER we lose in the playoffs".

 

I think this was supposed to be more about McD's continual botching of in-game decisions and strategy, and how it hasnt improved, and will likely rear it's ugly head again in the playoffs.

THIS! 💯 

[Jauronimo]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

In fairness, the title does say "AFTER we lose in the playoffs".

 

I think this was supposed to be more about McD's continual botching of in-game decisions and strategy, and how it hasnt improved, and will likely rear it's ugly head again in the playoffs.

Nothing says super fan like already predicting a playoff loss.

[uticaclub]

9 minutes ago, JPL7 said:

Not more tiresome than endless clock management issues consistently year after year that cost the bills big games. Enjoy your mediocrity train there pal.

Both are equally predictable 

[LABILLBACKER]

8 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

He may or may not turn out to be a great HC. They were saying the same things about Daboll a few years ago when he had a strong offense with Allen. Look at him now. Going from Allen to Jones is like going from a Porshe to tricycle. Detroit is loaded with offensive talent. Say he goes to the Jets for example. He won't look like an offensive genius at least not until he can get a QB. Even then who knows how it will play out.

Like Cowherd said this morning discussing McDermott, Mark Jackson had Curry & Klay and couldn't win. Steve Kerr comes in and wins multiple championships.  If Ben Johnson can make Goff (who McVey dumped) look this good, imagine what he could do with Josh.

[Success]

10 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

These "fire McDermott" responses after any loss at all are more predictable than the sun coming up in the morning. 

 

They are tiresome beyond words. 

 

I'd normally agree w/ this - but the Rams loss wasn't any loss.

 

I was really encouraged this whole season.  In general, McDermott has done a great job.  But what happened at the end of the Rams game was just deja vu.  He shouldn't be fired for it, but there are legit concerns. 

 

These are the kinds of teams we'll see in the playoffs, and the kinds of close games we're  likely to have.  They will often come down to the last couple of minutes, and a win or loss will depend on sound clock management & good situational awareness.

 

The way we handled that last few minutes and some of the decisions that were made kind of felt like we're stuck in a loop.  It just doesn't bode well for finally getting a title - it feels like we'll have to get a little lucky, like we'll have to win in spite of a few bad decisions or bad strategy.

 

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

I actually think the Steelers and Ravens would be tougher games then the Chiefs. The Chiefs don't look as dominant as they have in the past despite their record. It would still be a tough game especially at Arrowhead, but I think the Steelers and Ravens would be the Bills biggest challenge in the AFC playoffs.

I tend to agree

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, JPL7 said:

Here’s my thing… What about McDermott makes you guys think he’s the guy that’s going to win a Super Bowl? That’s what it all comes down to! He’s done a great job of turning this team around and making this franchise competitive. No doubt! But do you actually believe he can win a Super Bowl?

 

I'd say that... in spite of losing to KC in the playoffs in 3 of 4 years, and 1 year to cinci.  They have by far the best record of any team against KC during Mahomes tenure.  

 

Someone needs to beat the guy in the playoffs, and so far the only team beating them at all seems to be buffalo.  Does that mean they can win the big one?  I don't know.  

[LABILLBACKER]

9 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I'd normally agree w/ this - but the Rams loss wasn't any loss.

 

I was really encouraged this whole season.  In general, McDermott has done a great job.  But what happened at the end of the Rams game was just deja vu.  He shouldn't be fired for it, but there are legit concerns. 

 

These are the kinds of teams we'll see in the playoffs, and the kinds of close games we're  likely to have.  They will often come down to the last couple of minutes, and a win or loss will depend on sound clock management & good situational awareness.

 

The way we handled that last few minutes and some of the decisions that were made kind of felt like we're stuck in a loop.  It just doesn't bode well for finally getting a title - it feels like we'll have to get a little lucky, like we'll have to win in spite of a few bad decisions or bad strategy.

 

We're never going to win close playoff games with a HC making this many terrible decisions. It's just not sustainable,  even with Superman on your team.  It's like one cancels out the other.  McDermott panics and that's why he has notoriously throughout his career called stupid timeouts in stupid situations. He's not a strategist, he's reactionary. He relys on Josh to score 30+ every week to mask his weak D.  Cowherd and Wright just spent 10 minutes discussing McDermott's historical mistakes using the Jackson/Kerr comparison. A new face can make a world of difference. 

[Jauronimo]

Belichick has taken the UNC job.  I think you can shut this one down.

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Forget Belicheat.  You want a proven retread and one that has an offensive slant go get Gruden.

Since we are pulling out arbitrary names how about "the Chin"? 

 

First off, you don't want Gruden who won an SB back in 2002 in his first year with Tampa Bay, and the biggest reason for that win was because that team fielded the #1 defense overall built by Tony Dungy whom he replaced. The next 6 seasons under Gruden they didn't do much with one season at 11-5 and the rest barely winning, 7-9, 5-11, 11-5, 4 12,9-7, 9-7. Before he left TB to return to Oakland where he went 3-12, 7-9, 8-8, 3-2 and he resigned after week 5. 

 

Gruden likes to think he is the smartest guy on the planet and would have his QBs completely learn 2-foot playbooks so he could call some obscure play at some random time that wouldn't work anyway.

 

 

On the other hand, Bill Cowher did very well year after year with utter scrubs at QB until Big Ben. Can you imagine AFC Champs with Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, and Kordell Stewart? 13-3 with Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox?

 

 

Guys, as much as you yearn for change...McD isn't going anywhere. Not with a career 654% win percentage. Belichick has a 647% win percentage while Andy Reid has a 650%. Marv Levy has a 561% win percentage.

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

Since we are pulling out arbitrary names how about "the Chin"? 

 

First off, you don't want Gruden who won an SB back in 2002 in his first year with Tampa Bay, and the biggest reason for that win was because that team fielded the #1 defense overall built by Tony Dungy whom he replaced. The next 6 seasons under Gruden they didn't do much with one season at 11-5 and the rest barely winning, 7-9, 5-11, 11-5, 4 12,9-7, 9-7. Before he left TB to return to Oakland where he went 3-12, 7-9, 8-8, 3-2 and he resigned after week 5. 

 

Gruden likes to think he is the smartest guy on the planet and would have his QBs completely learn 2-foot playbooks so he could call some obscure play at some random time that wouldn't work anyway.

 

 

On the other hand, Bill Cowher did very well year after year with utter scrubs at QB until Big Ben. Can you imagine AFC Champs with Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, and Kordell Stewart? 13-3 with Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox?

 

 

Guys, as much as you yearn for change...McD isn't going anywhere. Not with a career 654% win percentage. Belichick has a 647% win percentage while Andy Reid has a 650%. Marv Levy has a 561% win percentage.

 

The Chin would fit great in Buffalo, wouldn't he?  I agree with your take on McD.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

He may or may not turn out to be a great HC. They were saying the same things about Daboll a few years ago when he had a strong offense with Allen. Look at him now. Going from Allen to Jones is like going from a Porshe to tricycle. Detroit is loaded with offensive talent. Say he goes to the Jets for example. He won't look like an offensive genius at least not until he can get a QB. Even then who knows how it will play out.

This game is going to be fun to watch but I’m keeping a close eye on the play calling and play design. I think Ben Johnson has a unique feel for play calling. His play design already speaks for itself. 

[Dr. K]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

I'd normally agree w/ this - but the Rams loss wasn't any loss.

 

I was really encouraged this whole season.  In general, McDermott has done a great job.  But what happened at the end of the Rams game was just deja vu.  He shouldn't be fired for it, but there are legit concerns. 

 

These are the kinds of teams we'll see in the playoffs, and the kinds of close games we're  likely to have.  They will often come down to the last couple of minutes, and a win or loss will depend on sound clock management & good situational awareness.

 

The way we handled that last few minutes and some of the decisions that were made kind of felt like we're stuck in a loop.  It just doesn't bode well for finally getting a title - it feels like we'll have to get a little lucky, like we'll have to win in spite of a few bad decisions or bad strategy.

 

I think your questions are reasonable. 

 

But looking at the specific decisions that were made, I think taking the penalty to move the Rams back to third and 17 rather than fourth and seven was reasonable. I don't think one choice or the other in this situation is a slam dunk.

 

As for running the sneak from the one yard line, even that is defensible if you consider that that play is their most reliable way, proven throughout the season, to pick up a yard. It failed. Maybe they should have tried some passes instead, but that reminds me a little of the Seahawks not giving the ball to Beast Mode, throwing an interception, and thereby losing the Super Bowl against the Pats.

 

After they failed the Bills might have lined up and run it again (or another play), saving the time out, but that would have burned considerable time. 

 

In retrospect it's a lot easier to say what they "should have done." But even then I wonder. Plus, do we know that McDermott called the QB sneak in that situation? I think it was more likely Brady, but who knows. 

 

My basic point is that the game was lost in the first 58 minutes, not the last two. The reason they lost is that the Rams were playing out of their minds, and the Bills defense could not come up with a way to stop them. That's the real worry, IMHO. And again, was McDermott calling the defensive plays? I expect Babich was doing so at least most of the time. 

 

I'm just sick of people telling me that Belichick or heaven forbid John Freakin' GRUDEN is going to do a better job. 

 

 

Edited December 10 by Dr. K

[TheFunPolice]

I'll tell you what's tiresome: people saying "but Tomlin! everyone loves Tomlin!" as a defense of McDermott. 

 

McDermott has a HOF level QB. Tomlin does not right now. 

 

However, you know what happened when he DID? 

 

2 SB appearances and 1 SB ring. That's also when Brady and Manning were in their primes and also in the AFC playoffs every year too. 

 

McDermott is having trouble even getting to the conference title game with Allen. 

 

Tomlin puts together the exact same season every year with (insert name here) at QB. This year he's getting QB production and they are 10-3, same as the Bills with Josh Allen and in a FAR more difficult division than the AFC Least. 

 

I'm getting annoyed at having a defensive HC whose defenses fall apart and never step up in the playoffs. AND whose game management blunders cost the team games. 

 

Having a defensive HC is fine, if the talk is "man that McDermott defense is brutal to face in the playoffs." Instead, it's "man that McDermott defense can't make a stop." 

 

What's the point, really? Noe we're going to lose our OC again because Allen is great. 

 

Edited December 10 by TheFunPolice

[Success]

3 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I think your questions are reasonable. 

 

But looking at the specific decisions that were made, I think taking the penalty to move the Rams back to third and 17 rather than fourth and seven was reasonable. I don't think one choice or the other in this situation is a slam dunk.

 

As for running the sneak from the one yard line, even that is defensible if you consider that that play is their most reliable way, proven throughout the season, to pick up a yard. It failed. Maybe they should have tried some passes instead, but that reminds me a little of the Seahawks not giving the ball to Beast Mode, throwing an interception, and thereby losing the Super Bowl against the Pats.

 

After they failed the Bills might have lined up and run it again (or another play), saving the time out, but that would have burned considerable time. 

 

In retrospect it's a lot easier to say what they "should have done." But even then I wonder. Plus, do we know that McDermott called the QB sneak in that situation? I think it was more likely Brady, but who knows. 

 

My basic point is that the game was lost in the first 58 minutes, not the last two. The reason they lost is that the Rams were playing out of their minds, and the Bills defense could not come up with a way to stop them. That's the real worry, IMHO. And again, was McDermott calling the defensive plays? I expect Babich was doing so at least most of the time. 

 

I'm just sick of people telling me that Belichick or heaven forbid John Freakin' GRUDEN is going to do a better job. 

 

 

 

You make some good points here.  The "run it w/ Beast mode" second-guessing was universal, and comparable to us trying to sneak & using the timeout.

 

I agree w/ you on accepting the penalty. That was a bad decision, imo - but not egregious, and a there are probably more than a few coaches who do the same there. 

 

I just assumed that the coaches' mindset was the same as mine & probably everyone watching on that last drive. You're down 2 scores - whatever you do, keep those 3 timeouts.  I think it probably was the same, but they just made a bad gamble at the end & thought the sneak would be a sure thing, because it normally is.  They put themselves in a position where they had to use that final timeout, but I can kind of see the logic if I get back in that mode of looking at it without the benefit of hindsight.

 

And hindsight is super easy.  You throw it, 3x if necessary, but keep those timeouts.