An absolute disaster by the coaches at the end of this game

[waterglass]

6 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Every season we get 1-2 games where that side of the ball doesn't even show up to play

  We continue to draft undersize D linema

 

. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

I believe they would have opted for safe plays. Short safe throws, runs, etc. 

They were in almost the same exact situation about a month ago. Up by one score, got the ball with 2 minutes (and change) left and needed a score to put the game away.

What did the Rams and McVay do? A few safe passes, short non-risky pass, then punted.  This isn't guess work - its what they ACTUALLY DID.

 

And they're not alone. Most teams do the same thing in that situation because they want to avoid any chance of a turnover that would destroy all odds of them winning.

 

I think they'd have tried a pass in there somewhere, but it would have been something relatively safe. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

And would have gotten the first down because their passing game shredded us all day.  Or they could have run the jet sweep that killed us all day.  Any number of plays.  If the decision in this particular game was between recovering an onside kick or stopping them from getting a first down, my money was on the inside kick.  It was clear except for one series we had no clue how to deal with their offense.

 

Should that TO been called?  No.  Did it ultimately matter?  No.  
 

 

Chances of recovering an aside kick - about 7% in the league this year. 

 

Chances of holding the Rams to three and out - about 14%, because the Bills did it to the Rams once in 7 possessions.  Playing for three and out was and is the much better decision. 

 

What really disturbs me is that Tom Brady obviously had all of this drilled into his head while playing:  He knew, and said it the moment the Allen sneaked on the first play, that the Bills had made a mistake. Throw the ball three times, so if you don't make it, you at least have stopped the clock on each play that doesn't score. Especially with Allen, because he can roll out and run if he has the opening, he can run out of the shotgun and pull up for the little pop pass, he has lots of options, all of which will stop the clock if he doesn't make it.  By doing that, the Bills have the 14% chance of getting the ball back, twice as good as the onside kick.

 

So, if Brady knows this, it's because someone taught it to him. By this time in his career, someone should have taught it to McDermott. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Chances of recovering an aside kick - about 7% in the league this year. 

 

Chances of holding the Rams to three and out - about 14%, because the Bills did it to the Rams once in 7 possessions.  Playing for three and out was and is the much better decision. 

 

What really disturbs me is that Tom Brady obviously had all of this drilled into his head while playing:  He knew, and said it the moment the Allen sneaked on the first play, that the Bills had made a mistake. Throw the ball three times, so if you don't make it, you at least have stopped the clock on each play that doesn't score. Especially with Allen, because he can roll out and run if he has the opening, he can run out of the shotgun and pull up for the little pop pass, he has lots of options, all of which will stop the clock if he doesn't make it.  By doing that, the Bills have the 14% chance of getting the ball back, twice as good as the onside kick.

 

So, if Brady knows this, it's because someone taught it to him. By this time in his career, someone should have taught it to McDermott. 

Your math is correct, but in the context of this game I don’t think we had any chance of stopping them from getting a first down, time outs available or otherwise.

[Mat68]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Chances of recovering an aside kick - about 7% in the league this year. 

 

Chances of holding the Rams to three and out - about 14%, because the Bills did it to the Rams once in 7 possessions.  Playing for three and out was and is the much better decision. 

 

What really disturbs me is that Tom Brady obviously had all of this drilled into his head while playing:  He knew, and said it the moment the Allen sneaked on the first play, that the Bills had made a mistake. Throw the ball three times, so if you don't make it, you at least have stopped the clock on each play that doesn't score. Especially with Allen, because he can roll out and run if he has the opening, he can run out of the shotgun and pull up for the little pop pass, he has lots of options, all of which will stop the clock if he doesn't make it.  By doing that, the Bills have the 14% chance of getting the ball back, twice as good as the onside kick.

 

So, if Brady knows this, it's because someone taught it to him. By this time in his career, someone should have taught it to McDermott. 

They throw 3 incompletions everyone is saying “why didn't they sneak it?”  If Brady doesn't mention it I don't think it is a big issue either.  Fades are the least efficient plays in football.  Idk.  That was their best option imo.  Should have done the push instead of sneak.  

[Pasaluki]

What I would say is relative to the coaches: There are levels. 

 

As bad as McDermott coached in this game one thing that has been impressed on me especially this year is how many bad coaches with bad brains there are. 

 

McDermott imo did panic and call the timeout. I think he thought that too much time would go off the clock after the piles of bodies on the failed sneak got up and got back into position. Overall it was the wrong decision for the reasons Tom Brady stated: the odds of getting an onsides kick essentially precluded the Bills from winning. 

 

I will also say it wasn't on the level of time mismanagment that teams like Bears routinely engage in. 

 

Andy Reid used to be criticized and called an idiot for how he managed the clock in Philadelphia. Turns out having Patrick Mahomes is the panacea and cured him of making practically any coaching mistakes. 

 

But the hyperbole of that moment of calling the timeout being like 13 seconds is foolishness to me. 

 

Honestly where McDermott deserves more criticism is for his Defensive game plan in general.

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I simply cannot muster the energy to give a ***** about end of game clock management in a game where our defense allowed 45 points.

 

Here's how I see it - the defense gave us like a 10% chance to win. The coaching at the end gave us a 0% chance to win. It's worth discussing both, especially in the context of those two issues being the main reasons our season ends early year after year.

[jkeerie]

7 hours ago, DCofNC said:

That just makes taking the penalty all the more idiotic, if you have a chance to get a team to 4th and long when TIME is your biggest enemy, you have to take it.  Especially if your big plan is to sit in a weak zone and let them get right back to the same distance.  Which the scheme showed was exactly the plan, they gave a 10 yard cushion on 3rd and 17.  He’s just awful at real time decision making.

Josh Allen had a record breaking performance, missing two starting receivers and you somehow want to pin this on him?  Ok Sean.

You do make valid points with respect to the time aspect.   It's easy to second guess.  I"ll guarantee you that if McD declined the penalty and LA gets the 1st down and scores, and the game ended up the same, posters on this board would have screamed McD should have taken the penalty.  Our defense sucked the entire game.  I had no confidence they could force even a single punt.  And in truth, they held the Rams to 37 points to our 42.  It was the not-so-special teams that cost the Bills greatly!  Speaking of which, Bills Special teams have not been stellar this year.  And yesterday...in the last moments...we had 9 players on the final punt, and Coddrington is not instructed to field the ball no matter what????  I know McD is the head coach, but a head coach has got to rely on his coordinators to know what they are doing at all times and to instruct the team.  

 

So...McD trusted his players and his coordinators.  They failed him.  The players are owning it.  The defensive players know they were awful that game and played with no sense of urgency.   McD is owning the defeat...even though many can second-guess his decisions.  I'm wondering about his coordinators.

 

McD always talks about learning from these tough defeats.  It will be interesting to see particularly in this next game, if they make any changes in their defensive scheme or personnel.  As much as we love Taron Johnson (and he is a great nickel corner), it makes us lighter against the run especially with our current defensive tackles when he's always out there.  

 

Watching many of the talking heads today, I didn't hear any criticism of taking the holding penalty.  The criticism centered around the QB sneak at the goal line which cost the time out when it failed.  Interestingly on Up and Adams, Gronkowski was on.  He's never really talks about the Bills in glowing terms routinely.  Aquib Talib was quite critical of the Bills defense.  Yet Gronk talked about, if you watch the game, Bills defenders were not out of position.  They forced 3rd downs routinely.  He basically gave credit to Stafford and Nacua and Kupp, as playing really lights out the entire game and making spectacular plays.  He was critical of the Bills D Line, though, and not being able to pressure Stafford.  That's where McD focused in his presser.  He said the Bills lost in the trenches on both sides of the ball.  Josh just minimized the damage offensively. 

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Here's how I see it - the defense gave us like a 10% chance to win. The coaching at the end gave us a 0% chance to win. It's worth discussing both, especially in the context of those two issues being the main reasons our season ends early year after year.

Its a fine topic for conversation.  If McD had handled the clock perfectly our chances of winning or tying that game were still remote.  Which is why I'm not too bent out of shape.  But I understand for others this is a continuing concern about our coaching and situational football.

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

 

It isn't the same as 13 seconds at all. We had the lead in that game with 13 seconds left. We were down by two scores with one minute left in this game, an almost impossible situation to claw out of.

The game was mismanaged at the end AND HIS defense fell short despite Josh putting up an all time great performance, so in that sense, very much like 13 seconds.

The McDefense, despite being full healthy in December had no business leaving Josh and the offense in such a situation in the first place. It’s bigger than just one game, because it just illustrates again, like 13 seconds, no matter how Herculean the effort from Josh, McDermott will always be there waiting in the wings to undo his greatness.

 

McDermott changed the culture here and got the ship on the right tracks but he’s not the guy to get them to the summit. He’s Doug Collins, we need our Phil Jackson because we’re just wasting Jordan…

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

but on 4th and 7 they might ick FG and than all we need is the TD to win.  I think it was wrong decision.

 

Sure they might have, but hard to believe they wouldn't kick it at 4th and 5, but would have at 4th and 7?  Plus for the reasons you state, if they kicked a FG a TD by Buffalo wins game makes me think it's doubtful Ram's would have kicked.  Bills couldn't stop Rams all game and Rams could barely stop the Bills particularly late in game.

[starrymessenger]

I dont know that taking the penalty was a mistake if you trust your D to make a play. If the Rams wind up out of FG range or muff the attempt that leaves open the possibility of kicking a tying field goal on your next possession (assuming you have one) even if you fail to hit paydirt to close out the game. But taking the penalty and then setting up against Kupp, Puka and Stafford in a soft zone accomplishes nothing except handing Stafford an extra rep and more time to burn.

Idk that McD’s D is good/adaptible enough to address all reasonable contingencies.  And I dont know either whether the problem is the coach or the scheme. His great Ds in Carolina seemed to me more aggressive (Keuckly, Thomas Davis, Shaq Thompson) but maybe I’m misremembering. We obviously dont have that kind of leadership amongst the players. Von got hurt. Milano got hurt. 

Edited December 9 by starrymessenger

[ProcessTruster]

Yeah was done poorly.  And the coaches had time to make the right decision.  

 

The PI in the end zone provided plenty of time b4 the QB sneak play to realize that passing it was better than running it.  They will learn from this one I believe.  

[LABILLBACKER]

22 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Yeah was done poorly.  And the coaches had time to make the right decision.  

 

The PI in the end zone provided plenty of time b4 the QB sneak play to realize that passing it was better than running it.  They will learn from this one I believe.  

If I had a dollar for every time I've read this sentence. 🤣

[zow2]

Brady’s finest moment as a broadcaster was on full display, explaining to the audience and McDermott how those final offensive plays and timeouts needed to be handled. 

Of course Sean blew it.  Brady you could tell was frustrated with him.

[london_bills]

Maybe MCD accidentally took the TO to make sure all coaches were on the same page : WE are keeping ALL TIMEOUTS. 

[fergie's ire]

23 hours ago, Success said:

Accepting the penalty on the Rams drive.

 

Then, calling TIME OUT.  Could have rushed to the line there & still been able to stop the clock.  That ended the game.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

Yeah. That's the part I don't get. I can see running that play because it has like a 90% success rate, but if it fails jump up and try again.  Even if d is slow to unpile should only take 15 seconds or so. A lack of a timeout costs 40 seconds.  It's simple math

[FireChans]

Do we win last night with anyone else at QB?

 

No.

 

Do we win last night with anyone else at HC?

 

Yes.

 

How long are we going to allow this to continue?

[fergie's ire]

23 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Blocked punt was ultimately the difference 

 

Aside from the ridiculous TO at the end.  
 

 

They didn't punt in the first half so what makes you think they wouldn't have scored on that possession anyway?

 

[Process]

15 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Brady’s finest moment as a broadcaster was on full display, explaining to the audience and McDermott how those final offensive plays and timeouts needed to be handled. 

Of course Sean blew it.  Brady you could tell was frustrated with him.

Any 8 year old who has ever played Madden knows how it needed to be handled....let's not give Brady too much credit