6 Offensive Linemen: The Bills' most effective offensive personnel grouping

[Logic]

18 minutes ago, MJS said:

Didn't the Bills tie that record in one of the recent seasons? I seem to remember that being a talking point.

Yes I believe they tied but did not surpass the record in 2020.

[hondo in seattle]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

I have to admit: I didn't see this coming.

The Bills -- the team with the All-World quarterback with a bazooka for an arm -- seem to operate best offensively with 6 o-linemen, a tight end, two receivers, and a running back on the field. I don't have the stats in front of me that compare their effectiveness with 6 OL vs other groupings, but it certainly seems to be one of their most effective tactics. 

Not the spread, not the Air Raid, not 10 or 11 personnel, not even 12 personnel. A jumbo set. The Bills offense seems to operate best out of a jumbo set. 

They've been using it for a few seasons now, here and there. This season, under Brady, they seem to be employing it most often and most effectively. We saw it on Sunday against the 49ers, where they lined up with 6 OL and ran Duo over and over and over again.

Who could have foreseen this being such an effective tactic for the Bills?

Who could have foreseen Alec Anderson playing such a crucial role in the offense?

Why don't more teams do this? It seems to give such a clear advantage in the run game, and then even when you run play-action off of it, the 6th lineman gives the QB extra time to find a receiver. It seems so obvious, and yet, it is certainly not common across the NFL to operate from this set as often as the Bills do.
 

 

One of the color commentators said it was a growing trend.  Or maybe it was Orlovsky in one of his Bills breakdowns.  In any case,  I'm not sure it's true.  I wonder if someone has any stats.

 

Edited December 6 by hondo in seattle

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

The 6th olineman is technically a TE, which means they can pass him the ball. Don't be surprised if they do that sometime in the playoffs.

 

There's the old truism that you should put your best 11 men on the field.  So I expected a lot of 12 personnel this season because both Knox and Kincaid are probably among our best 11 men.  

 

By dumb luck, I was right about using 12 but I didn't expect Anderson to be one of the TEs.  

 

[BillsShredder83]

7 hours ago, Logic said:

I have to admit: I didn't see this coming.

The Bills -- the team with the All-World quarterback with a bazooka for an arm -- seem to operate best offensively with 6 o-linemen, a tight end, two receivers, and a running back on the field. I don't have the stats in front of me that compare their effectiveness with 6 OL vs other groupings, but it certainly seems to be one of their most effective tactics. 

Not the spread, not the Air Raid, not 10 or 11 personnel, not even 12 personnel. A jumbo set. The Bills offense seems to operate best out of a jumbo set. 

They've been using it for a few seasons now, here and there. This season, under Brady, they seem to be employing it most often and most effectively. We saw it on Sunday against the 49ers, where they lined up with 6 OL and ran Duo over and over and over again.

Who could have foreseen this being such an effective tactic for the Bills?

Who could have foreseen Alec Anderson playing such a crucial role in the offense?

Why don't more teams do this? It seems to give such a clear advantage in the run game, and then even when you run play-action off of it, the 6th lineman gives the QB extra time to find a receiver. It seems so obvious, and yet, it is certainly not common across the NFL to operate from this set as often as the Bills do.

Anyway...for the rest of the season, when you see a 6th o-lineman trot out onto the field, it's fairly likely that a positive play is about to happen for the Bills offense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Part of that is developing so many quality lineman you cant roll out only 5.  We seriously need to do whatever is necessary to lock up Beach-Chairs Kromer!  I dont even know his contract status, I knew his value prior to this post, but I want him locked up further.

 

Offer his daughter Brooke, shes a reporter, a job with the team too.  Drill another well Terry!!!

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

With the development of Anderson and Davidson, does that end Knox's stay in Buffalo after this season? Or do they wait another year when Knox's dead cap is better.  He has certainly done an decent job while Kincaid has been out and is a far batter blocker than Kincaid or Davidson.

 

Edwards also did well that year in the 6th OL position.  His performance allowed the Bills to comfortable move on from Bates and Morse and slide McGovern to center where he is a better fit that he was a guard.

 

Knox is Josh's BFF, he's going nowhere.

 

McGovern at C is different than Morse. Morse was often the weak point in pass pro being light in the ass, but was devastating as a pulling center in run scheming. The line is more powerful in the middle with McG, Edwards and 2nd-half-of-season Torrence. Anderson is an interior piece in waiting, not a tackle. He'll play 10 years in the league at G/C. I remember losing my **** on cutdown day '23 when I saw Anderson waived, and then caught that it was Zane Anderson, not Alec.

 

BTW Zane wouldn't be a bad piece to have... big play to force the big-balls 4th down conversion last night. How many of Beane's late lates/UDFAs are still kicking around the league? Nick Broeker, Alex Austin, Jack Anderson, Dane Jackson, Hodgins, Ray-Ray... Araiza... Teller... looking at the draft history it's really something.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Looking at the stats shown, is it kind of obvious this is a low volume thing for the whole league.  The Bills gain the most yards per game at 58 yards...yet they gain 347 yards a game total....it is probably  that some teams, many teams do very little of 6th OL.  There are a lot of ways to skin the cat, I am interested in winning vs stats and the Bills are winning so I am pretty satisfied.   But it all comes down to post season, otherwise its just another round of stats.

Youre not wrong, but i think theres a much more nuanced take here.  Most teams are lucky to have 4 guys worth starting.  We have so many, that play so well as a unit, we cant justify keeping them off the field.  Obv great for short yardage, but we can also hide our intentions out of it better than other teams.  Its not an obvious run!  Also great way to demoralize and wear down a defense.  Real athletic line great at getting up the field, opens up some interesting looks where you can pull a guy out, and leave the 6th in to cover for him.  Like a backwards blitz almost lol

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I believe the Bills are just one touchdown reception by someone who hasn't caught one yet away from tying the all-time single season record for amount of different players on a team catching a touchdown pass.

That was a mouthful, but I think y'all know what I mean.

Alec Anderson and Zach Davidson seem like the best bets to help them achieve this record.

*Edit: Now that Josh Allen has a touchdown reception, they might only be ONE player away from setting the record.

Did they activate Davidson last week ?

 Is Kincaid going to play ? I saw questionable.

 Maybe Davidson is the guy !

 Anderson deserves it though.

 I love watching them play out of this formation. It's genius cuz its being executed so well too !
 Wears the defense. 

Maybe move him to the left side during playoffs. That will mess up the Defensive norms lol

 Love this stuff !

 Go Bill

[3rdand12]

43 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

There's the old truism that you should put your best 11 men on the field.  So I expected a lot of 12 personnel this season because both Knox and Kincaid are probably among our best 11 men.  

 

By dumb luck, I was right about using 12 but I didn't expect Anderson to be one of the TEs.  

 

you really cant get any credit for this technically. lol

 I do like how Bills play calling to impose their will up front is being used! O line must love it !!
Kromer have any hand in this concept I wonder.

Brady and Dorsey are nite and day. 

Go #70 !

40 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Knox is Josh's BFF, he's going nowhere.

 

McGovern at C is different than Morse. Morse was often the weak point in pass pro being light in the ass, but was devastating as a pulling center in run scheming. The line is more powerful in the middle with McG, Edwards and 2nd-half-of-season Torrence. Anderson is an interior piece in waiting, not a tackle. He'll play 10 years in the league at G/C. I remember losing my **** on cutdown day '23 when I saw Anderson waived, and then caught that it was Zane Anderson, not Alec.

 

BTW Zane wouldn't be a bad piece to have... big play to force the big-balls 4th down conversion last night. How many of Beane's late lates/UDFAs are still kicking around the league? Nick Broeker, Alex Austin, Jack Anderson, Dane Jackson, Hodgins, Ray-Ray... Araiza... Teller... looking at the draft history it's really something.

The underlined is key

and Beach Chairs

Edited December 6 by 3rdand12

[Buffalo Junction]

47 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

There's the old truism that you should put your best 11 men on the field.  So I expected a lot of 12 personnel this season because both Knox and Kincaid are probably among our best 11 men.  

 

By dumb luck, I was right about using 12 but I didn't expect Anderson to be one of the TEs.  

 

It’d be interesting to see a breakdown of heavy vs true 12 with Kincaid available or injured. 

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, NickelCity said:

Our OLine is the most important non-allen unit on this team. 

This can not be stated frequently enough, 👍

[hondo in seattle]

22 hours ago, NickelCity said:

Our OLine is the most important non-allen unit on this team. 

 

I'm generally pleased with Beane but for years  I criticized him for not building a good OL.  When you have the best QB in franchise history, it's critical to give him a bodyguard for a bunch of reasons:

 

...To keep him alive and healthy,

 

...To give him time and space to do what he's paid to do, 

 

...To open holes  for backs to give the offense balance and take some pressure off the QB.  

 

Even when our sack numbers weren't terrible, that was generally because Allen was elusive, not because the OL was protecting him.  But this year's OL has been a happy relevation.  

 

Edited December 7 by hondo in seattle

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Youre not wrong, but i think theres a much more nuanced take here.  Most teams are lucky to have 4 guys worth starting.  We have so many, that play so well as a unit, we cant justify keeping them off the field.  Obv great for short yardage, but we can also hide our intentions out of it better than other teams.  It’s not an obvious run!  Also great way to demoralize and wear down a defense.  Real athletic line great at getting up the field, opens up some interesting looks where you can pull a guy out, and leave the 6th in to cover for him.  Like a backwards blitz almost lol

Maybe.  And maybe it’s just a philosophical thing.   OCs  want more weapons on the field.  

[Rockinon]

18 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Maybe.  And maybe it’s just a philosophical thing.   OCs  want more weapons on the field.  

An OLman is a weapon.

[Sierra Foothills]

5 hours ago, nemhoff said:

Although they line him up differently, it is very similar to the Ravens and how they use Ricard.  Even though they list him as a FB (I think).

 

Yes Patrick Ricard... the 6'3" 300 lb fullback.

 

He was second team All Pro in 2023 with zero carries and 5 receptions.

 

4 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Belichick used to do this (although sometimes it was technically a fullback and not a 6th OL) including in the infamous Wind Game a couple years ago. I always wondered why the Bills didn't use it too. Kudos to Brady for both trying it and making it work!

 

The fullback on those Patriots teams was James Develin... 6'3" and listed at 275 lbs.

 

He was voted to the Pro Bowl in 2017 with zero carries and 6 receptions.

 

If Belichick could run the ball on a team, he wouldn't feel the need to throw it. During his time as Patriots coach they had 20 games where they rushed for 200 or more yards. This adherence to the run was a big reason he won 6 Super Bowls as Patriots coach. His teams could throw and run.

 

 

[Kelly to Allen]

Alec Anderson is going to start next year imo. 

[BearNorth]

Dion has already caught two TD passes in his career lining up as eligible.  Mitch Frerotte also has 2 career TD receptions.

 

The record for O-lineman is 4 shared by Anthony Munoz [HOF], Joe Valerio, and Donald Penn.

[artmalibu]

I dont have stats to support but,  the 6th O-lineman offers an extra blocker so the RB does not stay in for pass protection.  They could have 5 OL and use the RB in protection or have 6 OL and use the RB as a receiver.  Also the 6 OL offers an advantage in the run game

[BearNorth]

4 hours ago, finn said:

I also like how much on-field experience Anderson is getting. If he ever needs to replace Dawkins or Brown long-term, he won't miss a beat. Although maybe it would be more effective to keep him in his current role even if there is an injury. 

I think VanDemark is the swing tackle based on his replacing Brown vs. KC.  Anderson is the top C & G sub if someone goes down.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Alec Anderson is going to start next year imo. 

Where? Our current line is all returning again in 2025

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Alec Anderson is going to start next year imo. 

I think he is the plan of McGovern gets a bigger contract on a few years 

 

I like Anderson over svgp rn