Quarterbacks and "fake slide" controvery

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think fake slides or fake going out of bounds needs to be flagged if your going down this route of safety for quarterbacks. 
 

It’s literally a no win situation for defenders. We have seen this also with just sacking the quarterback where defenders think a QB had released the ball to avoid a late hit only to find out he still has it, gets let go and completes a pass for a long gain. 
 

We used to see QBs in the grasp years ago because they weren’t mobile and whistles would be blown before they got thrown around to now defenders having QBs for a second or two only to see them get out of the grasp to get long yardage. 
 

Unfortunately that’s what the NFL wants is supreme safety for quarterbacks while also driving up scoring which gives defenders a worse shot at stopping opposing teams. It’s amazing to me how defenses have adjusted to keep haves from looking like college scores with all the offensive favoritism. 
 

Frankly, if I have seen a QB taking advantage of the sideline play, ie Mahomes, I would tell my defense to light him up the first time it happens and we’ll take the 15 and I’ll have a convo with the refs about what we’ve seen on film and will do it again if he doesn’t go out of bounds. He’d also think twice about doing it again if he just got crushed. 

 

You know, we're running a big-ass pity party for defenders over the wrong things IMO.  

These are elite athletes.  The offensive skill players decide to change direction in an instant in response to defender moves.  Defenders change direction in an instant in response to offensive player moves.  Now all of a sudden they aren't able to go over a sliding QB or divert off to the side?

 

There's no question in my mind that Al-Shaair deliberately forearmed Lawrence in the neck/head trying to knock him out.  You don't forearm a guy to tackle him, so where does the "oh poor Al-Shaair had no time to react" pity party come from?  Refs do use some discretion with their flags, if they believe the defender is legit trying to avoid the QB and go over them, put an arm down etc etc.

I do think it's legit that some QB (*cough* Mahomes *cough* Williams) fake like they're going out of bounds, defender pulls up and he dances down the sideline for another 10, defender hits him as he's stepping out of bounds it's a penalty.  I don't think that should be a penalty unless the QB is clearly OOB when hit.

 

I also do think that Brady has a point, if we want to protect QBs, why are OCs drawing up designed QB run plays like the QB draw that resulted in Lawrence getting hit?

 

 

5 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

On the flip side, Tua was a downright fool for not taking care of himself on some of his concussion hits. Don't slide at your own peril!

 

This is true.  What on earth was he thinking putting his head down and running into Hamlin?

[wppete]

Trevor Lawrence didn't fake slide and got blasted with a huge cheap shot and now his season is over. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

It's not possible to avoid long term injuries in football. ( Regardless of whether that statement is even true about concussios)

 

Violence is built into the sport of football. At a certain point it no longer is football....

 

I understand generally speaking your point. IMHO it's getting to a level that is ridiculous. We can debate what that is but that's how I see it. 

 

 

 

Why can't we just have unnecessary roughness? It's going to be subjective regardless. Is that fair?

We have that now and it is not a deterrent. League tried to do the right thing to protect QBs but it isn't working.  Unless every hit to a sliding QB is a 3 game suspension nothing is going to change. 

[gonzo1105]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You know, we're running a big-ass pity party for defenders over the wrong things IMO.  

These are elite athletes.  The offensive skill players decide to change direction in an instant in response to defender moves.  Defenders change direction in an instant in response to offensive player moves.  Now all of a sudden they aren't able to go over a sliding QB or divert off to the side?

 

There's no question in my mind that Al-Shaair deliberately forearmed Lawrence in the neck/head trying to knock him out.  You don't forearm a guy to tackle him, so where does the "oh poor Al-Shaair had no time to react" pity party come from?  Refs do use some discretion with their flags, if they believe the defender is legit trying to avoid the QB and go over them, put an arm down etc etc.

I do think it's legit that some QB (*cough* Mahomes *cough* Williams) fake like they're going out of bounds, defender pulls up and he dances down the sideline for another 10, defender hits him as he's stepping out of bounds it's a penalty.  I don't think that should be a penalty unless the QB is clearly OOB when hit.

 

I also do think that Brady has a point, if we want to protect QBs, why are OCs drawing up designed QB run plays like the QB draw that resulted in Lawrence getting hit?

 

 

 

This is true.  What on earth was he thinking putting his head down and running into Hamlin?

Well to the point of Brady he couldn’t move a lick so OCs are drawing up plays for more mobile explosive QBs. Running the QB means more blockers on a play.
 

I’m not throwing a pity party for what he did. It was a dirty play but I do understand how difficult it has become to defend offenses with the rules and even now QBs  are starting to take advantage of rules that already severely favor them beyond just Mahomes. Quarterbacks are sliding incredibly late hoping to draw an extra 15 yards. The hit on Lawrence is blatant but there have been other times, including Allen, where he has clearly flopped on contact or a defender goes over the top of a sliding QB and still gets tagged with 15 yards. 

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

What about the no horse collar flags if the quarterback is still in the pocket? That's one of the first rules they need to change as I was shocked that it wasn't called in the Eagles game last season but it's in the rule book that it is not a penalty which to me absurd if trying to keep guys from getting hurt. 

 

Yeah, there was a play against the Rams in 2020 where Aaron Donald horse-collared Josh and absolutely spun him around and Allen was LIVID there was no flag.  Well, he was in the pocket, so by rule, Good No-Call  - but by common sense, if a horse collar tackle is illegal because it's dangerous, what makes it less dangerous to a QB in the pocket?

 

5 hours ago, dma0034 said:

I honestly wonder whether or not sliding is saver anyways. I've definitely seen more QBs get hit when sliding and getting concussed than I remember QB injuries while running. Like the one time Allen missed a game wasn't it because he was sliding and a Patriots player hit him? Yet he's never missed time while running and not sliding? Idk, I would just like to see the statistics of QB running injuries before and after sliding became a rule

 

Allen has never missed a game other than Game 7-10 as a rookie when he had a UCL injury.

 

He did sustain a hit in 2019 where he was running, upright, being tackled by one defender (thus going down) and Jonathan Jones came barreling in helmet first and clobbered him on the chin.  In the box score play by play I can find, it isn't listed as incurring a penalty; there was an OH on Dawkins commented as "offsetting", so I do think it was flagged as UR.  But, it knocked the starting QB out of the game into concussion protocol, and wound up with no consequence at all to the defense because of the hold.  (Allen didn't miss a game)

 

Which perfectly illustrates the other side of the story.  A defender can eliminate the most important player of the game, the QB, by putting them into concussion protocol and maybe be flagged for unnecessary roughness.  That's a pretty clear advantage to the defense, and in fact, it arguably won the game for Houston when Al-Shaair knocked Lawrence out.  I don't think he figured he'd be ejected or suspended, and if he'd kept his head and not gone on to throw other players around and continue after the ref told him he was done, it might have stopped with the penalty.