Quarterbacks and "fake slide" controvery

[julian]

44 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Having sore knees that makes stairs tricky is just a bit different from wanting to die because the headaches and confusion won't stop.

I think you might be unintentionally minimizing the agony of life long pain and immobility caused by permanent back and lower body injuries, these debilitating conditions don’t get the media headlines like the Mike Webster story has but are much more common and often lead to lives completely ruined due to the physiological effects and strains put on personal relationships.

 

 That being said, I think it’s a risk a man should be willing to take to provide wealth for his family for generations, we have men risking their lives in fields of work everyday just to pay the bills and feed their families.

 

At some point risk is just part of the human experience and without it, life isn’t worth living… said from the comforts of my very safe lazy boy of course lol.

[tomur67]

Maybe the QB could raise his arm (like calling for a fair catch) when going to slide.  If he doesn't raise his arm he's going to be tackled. Seems to me to be an easy solution.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

Having sore knees that makes stairs tricky is just a bit different from wanting to die because the headaches and confusion won't stop.

You're talking to an entire population of Bills fans with half who go through most of their life drunk, confused, and sad.

[JP51]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

I think they may have actually done that this year.

I'm not 100% sure but it may now be a rule that if you dive headfirst in the field of play you're still afforded protection but are marked down at the place you began the slide/dive. I doubt if it would apply at the goaline though.

They might have... I have actually seen it more... its a definite quandy...  

[Savage]

3 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Get Up on ESPN this morning had a spot on whether or not quarterbacks are taking advantage of the slide rule. They showed the Trevor Lawrence hit (Al-Shakeer / sp.?), which was a blatant dirty hit. Also was showing the great Josh Allen run against the Steelers. To me he was NOT faking a slide. Do you think they will start flagging the QB for this? (like flopping in hockey or basketball).

They should, just for the sake of safety.

 

you see it every week.

 

QB’s that fake to go out of bounds, but don’t, and get a few more yards.

 

 

[Simon]

20 minutes ago, julian said:

I think you might be unintentionally minimizing the agony of life long pain and immobility caused by permanent back and lower body injuries, these debilitating conditions don’t get the media headlines like the Mike Webster story has but are much more common and often lead to lives completely ruined due to the physiological effects and strains put on personal relationships.

 

 That being said, I think it’s a risk a man should be willing to take to provide wealth for his family for generations, we have men risking their lives in fields of work everyday just to pay the bills and feed their families.

 

At some point risk is just part of the human experience and without it, life isn’t worth living… said from the comforts of my very safe lazy boy of course lol.

 

I don't disagree with any of this except for the bolded.

And only that because I played organized ball well into my thirties, have had 4 back surgeries and still have pain every single day.

And it was still worth it 👍

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

On the flip side, Tua was a downright fool for not taking care of himself on some of his concussion hits. Don't slide at your own peril!

Actually, it’s safer to dive forward, but earlier.  Tua was stupid dropping his helmet at the last second.  He admitted he wanted to be like other tough mobile QB’s (you know he had Josh envy), but a forward dive going low means the defender just needs to put a hand on his jersey amd the play is over.

[North Buffalo]

3 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think fake slides or fake going out of bounds needs to be flagged if your going down this route of safety for quarterbacks. 
 

It’s literally a no win situation for defenders. We have seen this also with just sacking the quarterback where defenders think a QB had released the ball to avoid a late hit only to find out he still has it, gets let go and completes a pass for a long gain. 
 

We used to see QBs in the grasp years ago because they weren’t mobile and whistles would be blown before they got thrown around to now defenders having QBs for a second or two only to see them get out of the grasp to get long yardage. 
 

Unfortunately that’s what the NFL wants is supreme safety for quarterbacks while also driving up scoring which gives defenders a worse shot at stopping opposing teams. It’s amazing to me how defenses have adjusted to keep haves from looking like college scores with all the offensive favoritism. 
 

Frankly, if I have seen a QB taking advantage of the sideline play, ie Mahomes, I would tell my defense to light him up the first time it happens and we’ll take the 15 and I’ll have a convo with the refs about what we’ve seen on film and will do it again if he doesn’t go out of bounds. He’d also think twice about doing it again if he just got crushed. 

I'd have them blow the play dead right there... simple enough...

[GoBills!]

Simple rule once a QB is 5 yards past the line of scrimmage he is treated the same as a Rb or WR. Any fake slides, dips to fake out of bounds will be a 10 yard penalty and loss of down. 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Get Up on ESPN this morning had a spot on whether or not quarterbacks are taking advantage of the slide rule. They showed the Trevor Lawrence hit (Al-Shakeer / sp.?), which was a blatant dirty hit. Also was showing the great Josh Allen run against the Steelers. To me he was NOT faking a slide. Do you think they will start flagging the QB for this? (like flopping in hockey or basketball).

Not soon,

 

Allen was not trying a fake slide, he very obviously was juking the defender the same way running backs do it every game, it’s a red herring argument, 

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Get Up on ESPN this morning had a spot on whether or not quarterbacks are taking advantage of the slide rule. They showed the Trevor Lawrence hit (Al-Shakeer / sp.?), which was a blatant dirty hit. Also was showing the great Josh Allen run against the Steelers. To me he was NOT faking a slide. Do you think they will start flagging the QB for this? (like flopping in hockey or basketball).

I say HIT THEM ALL!! Go down/out of bounds early or get hit!! I don't think Allen faked sliding on the play 

Edited December 5 by Solomon Grundy

[stevewin]

I have no probem with erring on the side of over-protecting QBs - the more protected starting QBs are and the less crappy backup QBs I have to see see, the better the product is (and selfishly want Josh protected to maximum possible)

 

I think the rules are fine today - and think the whole "it's not fair to the defense" when a QB is ambling in the open field and going to slide because the D "has to make a 1/2 second decision" is total BS.  In the case of Lawrence, Al-Shaair had penty of time to see that Lawrence was going down.  Even if you've left your feet, just don't forearm shiver the guy in the face.  When a QB is going down the D just can't try to lay a hit on them.  In the case of Mahomes on the sideline  - just get your arms around him  - don't try to make a big hit (or be paralyzed bc you're afraid a big hit will draw a penalty)

Edited December 5 by stevewin

[without a drought]

56 minutes ago, GoBills! said:

Simple rule once a QB is 5 yards past the line of scrimmage he is treated the same as a Rb or WR. Any fake slides, dips to fake out of bounds will be a 10 yard penalty and loss of down. 

Now you want refs to make more judgement calls, maybe they can be challengable calls to make it even better.

[Utah John]

There was a discussion about Josh Allen's maybe-fake slide against the Steelers, on GMFB.  One of the talking heads pointed out that an actual fake slide gets you a five yard penalty from the point of the foul.  

 

I don't see this as a big problem.  What does happen is that the refs seem to mark the ball quite far back, even farther back than where the slide actually starts.  A few weeks ago a QB was running laterally along a yard marker, and slid.  The only question should have been, how far from the sideline should the ball be placed.  But the refs took their 2 yard sliding tax and moved the ball back from the yard marker.  

[BRH]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

This, not the Lawrence play, is what I was thinking about.  They went right at his knees.  No call.  Campbell can warn the refs all he wants but if they're playing Mahomes and not a rookie, it's still going to be fifteen and probably an ejection on top of it.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, BRH said:

 

This, not the Lawrence play, is what I was thinking about.  They went right at his knees.  No call.  Campbell can warn the refs all he wants but if they're playing Mahomes and not a rookie, it's still going to be fifteen and probably an ejection on top of it.

 

Not sure.

 

They'll definitely protect him if he is in the pocket, or even scrambling while still trying to throw.

 

But I think he had ONE opportunity to pull that fake-out-of-bounds move, and now the refs will treat it a little more as FAFO if he is a runner and downfield.

 

Josh better be ready to protect himself against Detroit next week as well. I hate going into that stadium. It's cursed with injuries.

[Bills aPHILLYate]

They should make the slide zone for QB's synonymous with legal contact between defenders and WR's off the line of scrimmage (5yds). Anything beyond that you are a legit runner and you either dive forward to give yourself up, get out of bounds, or deal with whatever tackle you're subject to.

 

It would offer some baseline metric to determine a violation and if you're outside that zone then you can't manipulate the system to fool defenders even further. 

 

Defenders need to have an opportunity to make an informed decision as opposed to reacting last second to a player who may or may not be giving themselves up.

 

 

 

 

[Sojourner]

10 minutes ago, Bills aPHILLYate said:

They should make the slide zone for QB's synonymous with legal contact between defenders and WR's off the line of scrimmage (5yds). Anything beyond that you are a legit runner and you either dive forward to give yourself up, get out of bounds, or deal with whatever tackle you're subject to.

 

It would offer some baseline metric to determine a violation and if you're outside that zone then you can't manipulate the system to fool defenders even further. 

 

Defenders need to have an opportunity to make an informed decision as opposed to reacting last second to a player who may or may not be giving themselves up.

 

 

 

 

That’s still tough to do man. If it’s 3rd & 5 the QBs running that all day lol

I sympathize with defenders nowadays man. Especially Safeties and Linebackers. They have to change how most of them grew up playing…

 

[DrBob806]

4 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

It is really hard to be a defender with the rules for defenseless receivers, slides, strike zones for QB's.  They should add a penalty for embellishing.  Fake sliding does not seem like a big problem to me.  Josh embellishes though, you can get your pitchforks out if you want I love Josh but he does it......

Yes, he indeed does. 

 

A lot of QBs did the "fake running out of bounds" thing, even as far back into the 70s. Joe Montana did it more than anybody.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Get Up on ESPN this morning had a spot on whether or not quarterbacks are taking advantage of the slide rule. They showed the Trevor Lawrence hit (Al-Shakeer / sp.?), which was a blatant dirty hit. Also was showing the great Josh Allen run against the Steelers. To me he was NOT faking a slide. Do you think they will start flagging the QB for this? (like flopping in hockey or basketball).

 

If they start flagging fake slides, they better be damned careful they don't start flagging jukes, which is what Allen did in the Pittsburgh game.

 

@JGMcD2 posted video clips of several runs that were jukes and an actual fake slide for contrast.  In a fake slide, the QB tucks one leg back.