Quarterbacks and "fake slide" controvery

[I'm Spartacus]

Get Up on ESPN this morning had a spot on whether or not quarterbacks are taking advantage of the slide rule. They showed the Trevor Lawrence hit (Al-Shakeer / sp.?), which was a blatant dirty hit. Also was showing the great Josh Allen run against the Steelers. To me he was NOT faking a slide. Do you think they will start flagging the QB for this? (like flopping in hockey or basketball).

[gonzo1105]

I think fake slides or fake going out of bounds needs to be flagged if your going down this route of safety for quarterbacks. 
 

It’s literally a no win situation for defenders. We have seen this also with just sacking the quarterback where defenders think a QB had released the ball to avoid a late hit only to find out he still has it, gets let go and completes a pass for a long gain. 
 

We used to see QBs in the grasp years ago because they weren’t mobile and whistles would be blown before they got thrown around to now defenders having QBs for a second or two only to see them get out of the grasp to get long yardage. 
 

Unfortunately that’s what the NFL wants is supreme safety for quarterbacks while also driving up scoring which gives defenders a worse shot at stopping opposing teams. It’s amazing to me how defenses have adjusted to keep haves from looking like college scores with all the offensive favoritism. 
 

Frankly, if I have seen a QB taking advantage of the sideline play, ie Mahomes, I would tell my defense to light him up the first time it happens and we’ll take the 15 and I’ll have a convo with the refs about what we’ve seen on film and will do it again if he doesn’t go out of bounds. He’d also think twice about doing it again if he just got crushed. 

[Kelly to Allen]

It's frickin football. It's a gladiator contact sport. Don't want to get hit as a QB, then slide earlier. 

 

It's the responsibility of the QB to protect himself. Not the other way around. 

 

Obviously the Texans hit was dirty but we have enough rules. You can't make playing defense robotic 

 

Everything doesn't need this dissertation or legal lingo on how and when to tackle someone. We all know what the line is. 

 

Same nonsense with sacking the QB. We already had a rule, it's called unnecessary roughness. 

 

 

This reminds me of the catch rules. We all know what a frickin catch is. You can't turn football into this perfect performance of robotic lawyer legalize. 

 

 

Edited December 5 by Kelly to Allen

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Something has to be done/clarified. It's ridiculous. If the qb doesn't slide within 5 yards of an approaching defender he's fair game to me. 

I realize how impossible that might be to enforce. 

Otherwise, you run the risk of being hurdled or embarrassed in some way.  

[I'm Spartacus]

On the flip side, Tua was a downright fool for not taking care of himself on some of his concussion hits. Don't slide at your own peril!

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Something has to be done/clarified. It's ridiculous. If the qb doesn't slide within 5 yards of an approaching defender he's fair game to me. 

I realize how impossible that might be to enforce. 

Otherwise, you run the risk of being hurdled or embarrassed in some way.  

 

We don't need more rules. I understand what you mean. 

 

It's called unnecessary roughness. Same thing with sacking the QB. They've have made it stupid and ridiculous. 

 

It's a subjective call but we all know what the line is. I don't want refs thinking more than they need to 

 

Football is not a math equation 

14 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think fake slides or fake going out of bounds needs to be flagged if your going down this route of safety for quarterbacks. 
 

It’s literally a no win situation for defenders. We have seen this also with just sacking the quarterback where defenders think a QB had released the ball to avoid a late hit only to find out he still has it, gets let go and completes a pass for a long gain. 
 

We used to see QBs in the grasp years ago because they weren’t mobile and whistles would be blown before they got thrown around to now defenders having QBs for a second or two only to see them get out of the grasp to get long yardage. 
 

Unfortunately that’s what the NFL wants is supreme safety for quarterbacks while also driving up scoring which gives defenders a worse shot at stopping opposing teams. It’s amazing to me how defenses have adjusted to keep haves from looking like college scores with all the offensive favoritism. 
 

Frankly, if I have seen a QB taking advantage of the sideline play, ie Mahomes, I would tell my defense to light him up the first time it happens and we’ll take the 15 and I’ll have a convo with the refs about what we’ve seen on film and will do it again if he doesn’t go out of bounds. He’d also think twice about doing it again if he just got crushed. 

 

You remove the necessity to flag a fake slide if you simply put the responsibility of the QB to protect himself. 

 

You don't get to slide or potentially slide at the last second. 

 

Put the responsibility on the QB. If not, then you get lit up

[thenorthremembers]

The entire slide rule is true to what the NFL does best, optics.    In my opinion the slide rule doesnt reduce injury, it only reduces the amount of players you can blame for the injury.     When a QB is running up right the strike zone on him is massive.   Its likely a defender is going to do as taught and wrap up low and push through the runner.   When a QB slides the strike zone is reduced to the head and shoulders.   If a defender cannot stop himself from running through the player it is more likely that a head injury will occur due to the limited strike zone.    In this instance you can only blame the defender.  So the NFL has its boogeyman. 

 

NFL football is way too fast to assume a defender can pull up when a QB slides 1-2 yards in front of him.     The bottom line is no amount of rules beyond going to non contact 7 on 7 football is going to make giant men running into one another at full speed infinitely safer.     Maybe the next step is to only allow Quarterbacks to play in the pocket as throwers.

[gonzo1105]

9 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

We don't need more rules. I understand what you mean. 

 

It's called unnecessary roughness. Same thing with sacking the QB. They've have made it stupid and ridiculous. 

 

It's a subjective call but we all know what the line is. I don't want refs thinking more than they need to 

 

Football is not a math equation 

 

You remove the necessity to flag a fake slide if you simply put the responsibility of the QB to protect himself. 

 

You don't get to slide or potentially slide at the last second. 

 

Put the responsibility on the QB. If not, then you get lit up

I understand what you’re saying but they’re not going to put the onus on the QB. They have created all of this to protect them. They’re not going to all of a sudden say well you slid late and got knocked the ***** out so that your problem. They want star QBs healthy to drive ratings, matchups and most importantly money. 
 

Yes I agree with you from a holistic standpoint of the game and where it’s going but what your saying isn’t going to become a thing 

[Matt_In_NH]

It is really hard to be a defender with the rules for defenseless receivers, slides, strike zones for QB's.  They should add a penalty for embellishing.  Fake sliding does not seem like a big problem to me.  Josh embellishes though, you can get your pitchforks out if you want I love Josh but he does it......

[Kelly to Allen]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

I understand what you’re saying but they’re not going to put the onus on the QB. They have created all of this to protect them. They’re not going to all of a sudden say well you slid late and got knocked the ***** out so that your problem. They want star QBs healthy to drive ratings, matchups and most importantly money. 
 

Yes I agree with you from a holistic standpoint of the game and where it’s going but what your saying isn’t going to become a thing 

The 90s before things could be reviewed was the perfect balance imo. 

 

I was a massive advocate for reviewing stuff but I absolutely hate it now. 

 

NFL games before 2000 were way more smooth and very simple. 

 

Id be willing to go back and put up with the pitfalls of missed calls or whatever.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

This getting attention this week is a total red herring. 

 

There was nothing at all Lawrence did wrong in his slide on Sunday and the defender was 6 to 7 yards away and running at a different angle at the point the slide started. He adjusted his angle, raised his forearm and launched himself at Lawrence's head with the sole intention of hurting him. The suspension is entirely justified. 

 

Draggin the fake slide / out of bounds issue (which I agree is a legit issue that needs attention) into this conversation avoids us having a proper conversation about how we get some more consistency into the discipline process for intentional dirty hits. That is what we SHOULD be talking about this week.

 

[Drew21PA]

League needs to protect the qb in pocket 

 

if they slide - no hitting

 

until they are down in a slide form I’d assume they are not giving themselves up - and therefore they are running backs so light them up

 

mahomes run against San Fran was an example - should have been lit up with no penalty tiptoeing the sideline 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I can’t recall ever seeing a fake slide in the NFL. The Controversy is much to do about nothing.

 

 

[ddaryl]

I agree you need to commit to the slide or going out of bounds , and yes I can see a day where "diving" will be a penalty when QB fake slides/OB, but this should probably be determined by the league through review at any time, like the last 2 minutes.

However remembering the long run Josh had against Pittsburgh last year. Many were screaming fake slide  attempt when Josh was just adjusting speed and allowing to Blockers to get in position. 

In regards to Trevor Lawerence, I still say that was a completely dirty hit with intention. I feel Al Shaiir had plenty of time to down the QB without leading with the forearm or even making contact with Trevor's head, but the raised forearm left no doubt IMO.
 

 

[The Jokeman]

36 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think fake slides or fake going out of bounds needs to be flagged if your going down this route of safety for quarterbacks. 
 

It’s literally a no win situation for defenders. We have seen this also with just sacking the quarterback where defenders think a QB had released the ball to avoid a late hit only to find out he still has it, gets let go and completes a pass for a long gain. 
 

We used to see QBs in the grasp years ago because they weren’t mobile and whistles would be blown before they got thrown around to now defenders having QBs for a second or two only to see them get out of the grasp to get long yardage. 
 

Unfortunately that’s what the NFL wants is supreme safety for quarterbacks while also driving up scoring which gives defenders a worse shot at stopping opposing teams. It’s amazing to me how defenses have adjusted to keep haves from looking like college scores with all the offensive favoritism. 
 

Frankly, if I have seen a QB taking advantage of the sideline play, ie Mahomes, I would tell my defense to light him up the first time it happens and we’ll take the 15 and I’ll have a convo with the refs about what we’ve seen on film and will do it again if he doesn’t go out of bounds. He’d also think twice about doing it again if he just got crushed. 

What about the no horse collar flags if the quarterback is still in the pocket? That's one of the first rules they need to change as I was shocked that it wasn't called in the Eagles game last season but it's in the rule book that it is not a penalty which to me absurd if trying to keep guys from getting hurt. 

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, ddaryl said:

I agree you need to commit to the slide or going out of bounds , and yes I can see a day where "diving" will be a penalty when QB fake slides/OB, but this should probably be determined by the league through review at any time, like the last 2 minutes.

However remembering the long run Josh had against Pittsburgh last year. Many were screaming fake slide  attempt when Josh was just adjusting speed and allowing to Blockers to get in position. 

In regards to Trevor Lawerence, I still say that was a completely dirty hit with intention. I feel Al Shaiir had plenty of time to down the QB without leading with the forearm or even making contact with Trevor's head, but the raised forearm left no doubt IMO.
 

 

 

 

It's a moot point. Allow the fake slide. Just don't complain when you get lit up. 

 

It's the QBs responsibility for his own safety. 

 

It's not really possible to put a defender in the position of judging whether the QB is going to slide or go out of bounds. 

 

The defender is going full speed and the QB is under the responsibility to avoid contact. 

 

We don't need refs making more subjective calls beyond what is already common sense. Again it's called unnecessary roughness.

 

 

Just now, The Jokeman said:

What about the no horse collar flags if the quarterback is still in the pocket? That's one of the first rules they need to change as I was shocked that it wasn't called in the Eagles game last season but it's in the rule book that it is not a penalty which to me absurd if trying to keep guys from getting hurt. 

Yup. That's another ridiculous rule. They then added another one with the hip drop tackle. 

 

And now you can't land on top of the QB if you sack him. Which epenesa literally did but it still didn't matter and was called for roughing the passer anyway.

 

It's insane 

[Simon]

9 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

However remembering the long run Josh had against Pittsburgh last year. Many were screaming fake slide  attempt when Josh was just adjusting speed and allowing to Blockers to get in position. 
 

 

 

Anybody who calls this a fake slide has never carried a football or is looking to create controversy and attention.

The only actual fake slide I've ever seen was Kenny Pickett a couple times in college; I've never once seen it in the NFL.

As for the Mahomes and the OB stuff, if you give up on a play where a guy with the ball is still in bounds, that's on you, not him.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

And now you can't land on top of the QB if you sack him.

 

You can still land on him; you just can't drive him into the turf anymore.

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

Anybody who calls this a fake slide has never carried a football or is looking to create controversy and attention.

The only actual fake slide I've ever seen was Kenny Pickett a couple times in college; I've never once seen it in the NFL.

As for the Mahomes and the OB stuff, if you give up on a play where a guy with the ball is still in bounds, that's on you, not him.

 

You can land on him; you just can't drive him into the turf anymore.

They called it roughing on epenesa even though he just set Rodgers down. 

[JP51]

53 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think fake slides or fake going out of bounds needs to be flagged if your going down this route of safety for quarterbacks. 
 

It’s literally a no win situation for defenders. We have seen this also with just sacking the quarterback where defenders think a QB had released the ball to avoid a late hit only to find out he still has it, gets let go and completes a pass for a long gain. 
 

We used to see QBs in the grasp years ago because they weren’t mobile and whistles would be blown before they got thrown around to now defenders having QBs for a second or two only to see them get out of the grasp to get long yardage. 
 

Unfortunately that’s what the NFL wants is supreme safety for quarterbacks while also driving up scoring which gives defenders a worse shot at stopping opposing teams. It’s amazing to me how defenses have adjusted to keep haves from looking like college scores with all the offensive favoritism. 
 

Frankly, if I have seen a QB taking advantage of the sideline play, ie Mahomes, I would tell my defense to light him up the first time it happens and we’ll take the 15 and I’ll have a convo with the refs about what we’ve seen on film and will do it again if he doesn’t go out of bounds. He’d also think twice about doing it again if he just got crushed. 

So, I have been wondering this... slides expose the upper portion of the body... now that hit on Lawrence was reckless, but I have seen many that were dude is in the air to make a tackle and the QB goes down and gets blasted in the head. The out of bounds thing where they try to get a couple extra yards as well...  I know everyone wont agree... and or flame LOL... but what if they took the slide rule and made it a head first slide... this way the head is at ground level... and what if the QB is clearly running out of bounds and the defenders are letting up, they place the ball at the angle he would have hit the boundary if he decides to turn north and get a few extra. The fake slide... I have no clue what to do... other than penalize it. Clearly I do not relish giving officials more judgement calls and that is exactly what is going to happen, there will be controversies abound every game... but this is the only way I can think they can solve this issue.... or simply as other posters have said.. look its football.. we cant nursery school you... its violent... protect yourself, 

Edited December 5 by JP51

[dma0034]

I honestly wonder whether or not sliding is saver anyways. I've definitely seen more QBs get hit when sliding and getting concussed than I remember QB injuries while running. Like the one time Allen missed a game wasn't it because he was sliding and a Patriots player hit him? Yet he's never missed time while running and not sliding? Idk, I would just like to see the statistics of QB running injuries before and after sliding became a rule