McD: Has your view changed?

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It doesn’t matter what either of us think.  That’s not THE point.  That’s YOUR point. A point that I don’t dabble in very much because it’s pretend make believe stuff that will never happen. 
 
my point is that Shanahan has choked multiple times, 3 times to be exact- in 2nd half/4th qtr of the Super Bowl.  He choked with a 28-3 lead while having an actual MVP QB under center.

 

I’m done here.  Have fun playing pretend. 

Okay. 
 

Just go on record. Do you think Shanahan and Josh from 2020-2024 would’ve had more success than McD and Josh from 2020-2024? 

 

Sure, no one can prove it. does that mean we can’t discuss it? lol. Very odd take.

 

My suspicion is that you kind of agree, but you’re afraid to admit it. It’s okay bro. It won’t make you a bad Bills fan to think someone could have POSSIBLY done a better job than McDermott.

[nuiwek]

I first started really following the bills the season of the music city forward lateral. Do I want more playoff wins and a lombardi? Absolutely. But I certainly dont wanna go through another 17 years of not even sniffing the playoffs because we fired the only coach since the lateral debacle whos not only won a playoff game but gets us there for  a chance every damn year.

[Mikie2times]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

McDermott era playoff losses:

 

3-10 versus Jacksonville

19-22 versus Houston

24-38 versus KC

36-42 versus KC

10-27 versus Cinci

24-27 versus KC

 

In two games, our D was horrible.  In two games, our O was horrible.  In the other games, we were just a little more mediocre than our opponent.  In those games we allowed 22 and 27 points respectively - neither great nor awful - and still couldn't win. 

 

I'm not sure what our losses teach us other than the obvious: we weren't good enough.  I don't see them necessarily as proof of a problem with McD's defensive system since we can blame at least two of the losses on the offense.   

 

It might be we don't have the right players to execute the system as flawlessly as he wants - especially when we repeatedly enter the playoffs with injuries to key players on defense.  Regardless of the system employed, the talent you put on the field matters.  

 

I also think that the roster overperforms during the regular season because McD's system is so complicated and good at disguises that many QBs struggle against us.  That's not roster talent - that's coaching.  But the regular season coaching advantage largely disappears in the playoffs when going up against the very best QBs and coaching staffs who are smart enough to recognize what McD is up to.   At that point, with the battle of wits is at a draw and the better players win.  And sometimes that's not us.  

 

Colts win, Colts had 3rd best performance of the season offensively on EPA, as did the Chiefs that same year, Bengals the following year 3rd again, then Kansas City was 6th last year.
 

In only one of those games we yielded less than 140 yards rushing. So in victory or defeat when we face an actual non back up QB in the playoffs we have allowed one of the best performances of the entire season to that offense in nearly every game. We have the worst EPA of any team in the playoffs in the 2020’s divisional round or later. All of this data includes multiple teams. Multiple years. It’s not just the Chiefs as so many point out. It includes defenses Sean has fielded with far better stats than this year’s iteration. 
 

So this year when we allow 140+ rushing again and we actually have to play defense against a QB with a pulse, when we can’t just leverage our lead to force teams into passing downs with below average QB’s, this will be the year it’s different?

 

Please come back to this post at the end of the year. I beg you. If I’m wrong I will publicly shame myself all over these part and GD do I hope I’m wrong. But I’m dumb confident in this position. This is a front running system designed to snowball teams when they’re down. It works even better with verse league average QB’s. But it completely falls apart when the script is neutral and the talent level of the opposing QB is higher and teams make a point to play physical football.
 

Our only chance is Allen putting this thing on his back in a way that we still haven’t seen and he’s already done that a pretty good amount thus far. Which has nothing to do with our head coach. 
 

 

Edited December 7 by Mikie2times

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Okay. 
 

Just go on record. Do you think Shanahan and Josh from 2020-2024 would’ve had more success than McD and Josh from 2020-2024? 

 

Sure, no one can prove it. does that mean we can’t discuss it? lol. Very odd take.

 

My suspicion is that you kind of agree, but you’re afraid to admit it. It’s okay bro. It won’t make you a bad Bills fan to think someone could have POSSIBLY done a better job than McDermott.

“Go on record” talking about pretend kid stuff?  🙄

 

Nothing will make me a bad bills fan.  Ever.   

[ganesh]

On 12/4/2024 at 4:26 AM, Your Brown Eye said:

They have always done well in the regular season, his faults are magnified in the playoffs when the chips are on the line and he starts clutching the 'ol pearls

And where the teams are very good and you cannot afford to make too many mental mistakes.  In the last five years, we have been beaten by two QBs who have taken their teams to the SB.  We have to learn and beat the best of the best consistently for three to four weeks to win a SB. 

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, NewEra said:

“Go on record” talking about pretend kid stuff?  🙄

 

Nothing will make me a bad bills fan.  Ever.   

So hostile. 
 

It’s okay bro. It will be our little secret.

[NewEra]

Just now, FireChans said:

So hostile. 
 

It’s okay bro. It will be our little secret.

That’s hostile?  I thought you were 35+

[Lfod]

I really always liked McDermott for a few reasons. The first reason being was when he first took over fights were breaking out in camp and thats the sign of people working hard. 

 

The next reason is that he broke the drought and i dont care what anyone says about that... it was a real curse and he cleaned house. 

 

The other reason is that this team is always in the Playoffs and that can lead to Super Bowls.

 

I never understood the fire McDermott stuff. Its status quo and the team is on another run. The dude just oozes playoff culture.

 

You could say that they missed a window and made a bad moves but it just doesn't land as heavy when the Bills are still a part of the picture and relevant still. 

 

If i think about some of the things i read here before the season and how its playing out is two different realities. 

 

My classic line was if you fired McDermott today he would be hired the next day somewhere as a HC. 

Edited December 7 by Lfod

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Okay. 
 

Just go on record. Do you think Shanahan and Josh from 2020-2024 would’ve had more success than McD and Josh from 2020-2024? 

 

Sure, no one can prove it. does that mean we can’t discuss it? lol. Very odd take.

 

My suspicion is that you kind of agree, but you’re afraid to admit it. It’s okay bro. It won’t make you a bad Bills fan to think someone could have POSSIBLY done a better job than McDermott.

I think Shanahan is the third best coach in the NFL behind Reid and McVay.  If he becomes available let us know.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I think Shanahan is the third best coach in the NFL behind Reid and McVay.  If he becomes available let us know.

 

Even if he were available and the Bills had an opening there is zero chance Pegula hires him. They interviewed him in the Rex Round back in 2015 and let's just say it wasn't exactly a meeting of minds. They didn't even try and speak to him in 2017 when he was the hottest coordinator out there and they had a vacancy. Terry is more likely to re-hire Doug Marrone than hire Kyle Shanahan.

[NeverOutNick]

On 12/3/2024 at 5:38 PM, Mikie2times said:

I feel like prior to the season starting the general vibe around here could fit into four categories 

 

1. Some posters discussed the risk of changing a HC

2. Some felt he would ultimately figure out his postseason issues

3. Some felt his regular season success was enough so far and if nothing else that should buy him more time 

4. Some felt he never would figure it out in the postseason and it was a lost cause

 

I was a #4 (go figure) and still remain in the last group. While thrilled at what we have done this year as I have hope I didn't expect to arrive at this season, nothing we did in the regular season would be able to change where I land in that grouping. We have just been too good in the regular season and that isn't where my concern is.  With all that said, I get a sense that I'm a minority at this point. That based on this years performance McD has largely quieted group #4 and most posters have now shifted into 1, 2, or 3 or at least a combination of them.

 

So I guess it's a two part question here...

 

1. Has the season so far resulted in you shifting from one of the groupings to another?

2. If we lose in the divisional round or earlier will that dramatically impact your perception of Sean and how this season has gone?

 

 

 

I’m skeptically optimistic. He’s burned us too many times in the playoffs. This feels like the year but I want to see him take out Hamlin for Hyde or Bishop and actually have a defense that shows up in the playoffs

10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I think Shanahan is the third best coach in the NFL behind Reid and McVay.  If he becomes available let us know.

Lafleur is right behind Reid imo. That dude has made Love look like an actual NFL QB these last 2 years and his receivers are always wide open. Overperforms in the playoffs year in and year out 

[FireChans]

33 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I think Shanahan is the third best coach in the NFL behind Reid and McVay.  If he becomes available let us know.

Feel like we are getting somewhere now.

[NeverOutNick]

@GunnerBill you can disagree with me all you want but Kyle Shanahan has consistently blown it in the big game. His ego gets in the way and doesn’t lean into what works by putting the ball in his playmakers hands. He’s a very good coach but I bet Lafleur wins a SB before Shanahan as a head coach 

[Doc Brown]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Even if he were available and the Bills had an opening there is zero chance Pegula hires him. They interviewed him in the Rex Round back in 2015 and let's just say it wasn't exactly a meeting of minds. They didn't even try and speak to him in 2017 when he was the hottest coordinator out there and they had a vacancy. Terry is more likely to re-hire Doug Marrone than hire Kyle Shanahan.

Completely agree unless McDermott would voluntarily leave for some reason like Marrone did.  I think with Pegula you have to factor in his hockey decisions to evaluate him as an owner.  He's gone back to the well in hockey twice with Ted Nolan and Lindy Ruff.  First one didn't work and second one's not looking great either.  Then you have in between Bylsma, Housley, Krueger, and Granato.  All first time NHL head coaching hires that didn't last more than three seasons.  Then of course you have the Rex Ryan hire.  So, he's basically 1 for 6 and probably 1 for 7 in just hiring a coach that finished a season above .500.  I don't even want to go into his GM choices. 

 

Based off that, one could make the argument it's dumb luck that he stumbled into McDermott and Beane.  Why in the world would he even attempt to rock the boat with the only successful head coach and GM he's hired between two franchises since owning both teams more for a decade or so?  It's why threads like this have always been meaningless imo.

[FireChans]

42 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Lafleur is right behind Reid imo. That dude has made Love look like an actual NFL QB these last 2 years and his receivers are always wide open. Overperforms in the playoffs year in and year out 

The same LaFleur that has gotten mortified in the playoffs with Rodgers?

[Doc Brown]

14 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

@GunnerBill you can disagree with me all you want but Kyle Shanahan has consistently blown it in the big game. His ego gets in the way and doesn’t lean into what works by putting the ball in his playmakers hands. He’s a very good coach but I bet Lafleur wins a SB before Shanahan as a head coach 

LaFleur had four years with Aaron Rodgers playing at an MVP level and didn't make a Super Bowl in a weaker conference.  Shanahan made the Super Bowl twice with lesser QB's.  I don't know how you can argue LaFleur is a better head coach.

[Behindenemylines]

On 12/5/2024 at 9:35 AM, Mat68 said:

He is regarded as a top of the NFL mind.  Scheme pretty plug and play.  Playing Dane Jackson vs Chase or Levi Wallace vs Hill wasn't the scheme imo.  Bedford and Douglas is the best they have been outside in a long time.  This season and this run I will be more critical of Mcdermott and the team’s run.  Previous years they had obvious limitations imo.  Whether it be pressure or cb 2.  

How much of the limitations on D were related to Frasier would you think?  I was very down on his decision making and lack of flexibility for in-game changes.  
 

or was it all a talent problem during his tenure?  
 

I know McD seems to get the best out of his guys and the work in his systems.  It’s been his time management and earlier on conservative nature which caused issues-but now he is very aggressive.  

[Behindenemylines]

12 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Folks, admit it ... we have a great coach and an even better GM and an even better than that QB.

 

I count 12 current Bills players who were on McD's first division champs in 2020: Allen, Milano, Knox, Dawkins, Oliver, Epenesa, Taron Johnson, Quinton Jefferson (left and came back), Cam Lewis, Reggie Gilliam, Reid Ferguson, Tyler Bass. And I guess Micah Hyde now.

 

So 3/4 of the roster turns over in four years and the team doesn't miss a beat. 

 

That's what that great GM-HC-QB team will do for you. Six years ago what Bills fan could've dreamed of that? 

 

I agree six years ago I wanted us to be an annual contender and hopeful Champ.  I think most teams turn rosters at similar rates however so I’ll discount that in my question. 
 

Would another coach in the exact same circumstances -McVay, Reid, Shanahan, Bellichick etc have done any better and won a SB?  And what exactly would that difference be?  

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

I think Shanahan is the third best coach in the NFL behind Reid and McVay.  If he becomes available let us know.

Something about Shanahan makes me think he’s not actually as good as his reputation.  I don’t have data and facts other than the sniff test-so to speak. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

@GunnerBill you can disagree with me all you want but Kyle Shanahan has consistently blown it in the big game. His ego gets in the way and doesn’t lean into what works by putting the ball in his playmakers hands. He’s a very good coach but I bet Lafleur wins a SB before Shanahan as a head coach 

 

I don't disagree on Shanahan. I diagree on LaFleur because he has had similar moments himself in the playoffs and the Packers struggle beating other legit teams and have for his entire reign. Regular and post. 

 

And Jordan Love is good. I give LaFleur credit for his part in drafting him and being patient with his development but he is very naturally talented. 

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Completely agree unless McDermott would voluntarily leave for some reason like Marrone did.  I think with Pegula you have to factor in his hockey decisions to evaluate him as an owner.  He's gone back to the well in hockey twice with Ted Nolan and Lindy Ruff.  First one didn't work and second one's not looking great either.  Then you have in between Bylsma, Housley, Krueger, and Granato.  All first time NHL head coaching hires that didn't last more than three seasons.  Then of course you have the Rex Ryan hire.  So, he's basically 1 for 6 and probably 1 for 7 in just hiring a coach that finished a season above .500.  I don't even want to go into his GM choices. 

 

Based off that, one could make the argument it's dumb luck that he stumbled into McDermott and Beane.  Why in the world would he even attempt to rock the boat with the only successful head coach and GM he's hired between two franchises since owning both teams more for a decade or so?  It's why threads like this have always been meaningless imo.

 

That wasn't really my point. My point was even if he has a vacancy for any reason he won't hire Kyle. That 2015 interview went very badly.

[Doc Brown]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

That wasn't really my point. My point was even if he has a vacancy for any reason he won't hire Kyle. That 2015 interview went very badly.

I remember at the time that the rumor was Shanahan wouldn't even interview with Pegula given how unstable this franchise appeared with Doug Whaley running the show.  Maybe I have it backwards.