McD: Has your view changed?

[Mikie2times]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is correct. 0-5 against KC. Two of those being the two playoff meetings.

2018 they didn’t make the playoffs in the regular season match up. 2022 they went 3-4 before that game, then went on to win out until the Super bowl. 2024 they won’t be a playoff team. 
 

Two match ups when the don’t even make the playoffs and two with Jimmy G. But who cares about context. It just forces you to think.
 

Not that any of that speaks to the false assumption that KC is the only team we can’t beat.

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That’s probably true. But they have never had comparable QB talent to KC.

They weren’t even a playoff team two of those years and two other a guy who isn’t even a starting NFL QB now was the starter for them. 

Edited December 6 by Mikie2times

[Rochesterfan]

29 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think the question to me is simple.

 

Give Lynch and Shanny the reins from 2020 -20224 and compare it to what Beane/McD did in those same years?

Who do you think would have more success over that span? I think it’s clearly Lynch and Shanny. 

 

I think with Shanny and Lynch - the Bills are less successful because Josh would be much less effective in the Shanny offense and therefore the team would struggle.

 

Give McD the 49ers with better RBs and better defense - I think you see him win just as much - similar to year 1 with Tyrod and a stellar defense.  There are fewer blowouts, but a similar win %.
 

Also in the NFC - he probably has a couple of SB visits and losses to KC and Shanny who can’t beat KC anyway still would be the guy with 0 SBs.

 

That is just based upon their records and the failure Shanny has shown with any QBs with talent that do not follow his plan.  

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I think with Shanny and Lynch - the Bills are less successful because Josh would be much less effective in the Shanny offense and therefore the team would struggle.

 

Give McD the 49ers with better RBs and better defense - I think you see him win just as much - similar to year 1 with Tyrod and a stellar defense.  There are fewer blowouts, but a similar win %.
 

Also in the NFC - he probably has a couple of SB visits and losses to KC and Shanny who can’t beat KC anyway still would be the guy with 0 SBs.

 

That is just based upon their records and the failure Shanny has shown with any QBs with talent that do not follow his plan.  

I think McD with the 49ers from 2020-2024 and they are a fringe WC team, not a SB appearance team. 

[GoBills808]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That’s probably true. But they have never had comparable QB talent to KC.

How's this for a take- +150 Shanahan does better vs KC w Allen and McDermott also does better w Niners toster

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

How's this for a take- +150 Shanahan does better vs KC w Allen and McDermott also does better w Niners toster

But that would make….. Beane the problem???????

 

Say it ain’t so! 

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

How's this for a take- +150 Shanahan does better vs KC w Allen and McDermott also does better w Niners toster

I could actually see it, but McD’s ceiling is still the divisional round and Shannon’s would be Super Bowl all day

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

But that would make….. Beane the problem???????

 

Say it ain’t so! 

No I'm saying Shanahan vs McDermotts results and McDermott v Chiefs specifically w Niners roster

 

[Billsfanatic8989]

On 12/3/2024 at 7:14 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

 

I don't know how old folks typically are here, but I'm old enough to have followed the Bills through most of the team's existence. This regime is as good if not better than we've ever had. You can cling to your negatives if you want. We are in the Golden Age of Bills football. Appreciate it. It's not going to be this way forever. Look at New England.

What about them?

 

Won 6/9 SB's.

19 straight winning seasons.

8 straight AFC title games. 

Epic SB comeback

 

Comparing ourselves to the Patriots does us no good. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

No I'm saying Shanahan vs McDermotts results and McDermott v Chiefs specifically w Niners roster

 

Don’t agree.

 

Shanahan has won multiple matchups in high stakes scenarios with a large QB disadvantage.

[Rochesterfan]

6 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

2018 they didn’t make the playoffs in the regular season match up. 2022 they went 3-4 before that game, then went on to win out until the Super bowl. 2024 they won’t be a playoff team. 
 

Two match ups when the don’t even make the playoffs and two with Jimmy G. But who cares about context. It just forces you to think.
 

Not that any of that speaks to the false assumption that KC is the only team we can’t beat.

They weren’t even a playoff team two of those years and two other a guy who isn’t even a starting NFL QB now was the starter for them. 

 

So it is better to have a coach that after this year will have missed the playoffs 4 of 8 seasons and has lost to KC (and many other teams in addition) and has a worse win %, moved up to draft their future QB and totally whiffed, but because he has made SBs in the other conference and still lost to the team that beats us - we should change.
 

My God that is just wrong.

 

Let’s get rid of the guy that has made the playoffs 7 of 8 years, has developed a butt ton of players - including the QB- has the second best winning % of any coach during the last 5 years, is universally loved by his players - including Josh - has the best head to head record versus Reid and Mahomes, but let’s just move to another hypothetical coach and expect success.

 

I mean it is not like high end QBs - Burrows, Herbert, Tua, Rodgers, Murray, Lawrence, etc have and will miss the playoffs because coaching.  Yeah let’s throw away what we have for a very small hypothetical shot that some other coach will be better.  I mean it isn’t like the majority of coaching changes result in failure.  It isn’t like we went through 17 years shifting coach after coach and watching talented players want out because of the lack of culture.

 

This quoted argument really kills me - we shouldn’t count their losses to KC because they weren’t in the playoffs - really 🤦‍♂️.  So now you are punishing McD because his team makes the playoffs every year and wins games in the playoffs every year.  Again I will take a coach that guides his team to the playoffs year after year over a guy that is hitting 50% all the time.

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Don’t agree.

 

Shanahan has won multiple matchups in high stakes scenarios with a large QB disadvantage.

He has also lost significantly more games in higher stakes (and lower stakes) including 2 SBs as a coach and a huge blunder as an OC where he cost his team the victory.  Personally if you compare the 2 - Shanny to me is the bigger disadvantage versus McD and it isn’t close.

 

The 49ers also aren’t paying a QB - even though they are on QB 3 (major fail) and therefore have been able to spend more on other players.

 

They are 0-3 on QBs and are starting to think they need an improvement again - big red flag.

 

They have also benefited greatly from 1 major rule change that got them many extra high level draft picks when they lost both OCs and DCs.  They have gotten like 6 additional free 3rd round picks because of timing - which of course adds to their talent pool.

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Don’t agree.

 

Shanahan has won multiple matchups in high stakes scenarios with a large QB disadvantage.

I'll make it simple

 

 Shanahan coaching this roster w Allen would have a minimum of 1 Super Bowl win

 

McDermott coaching the Niners would be better than 0-5 vs the Chiefs

[FireChans]

38 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

He has also lost significantly more games in higher stakes (and lower stakes) including 2 SBs as a coach and a huge blunder as an OC where he cost his team the victory.  Personally if you compare the 2 - Shanny to me is the bigger disadvantage versus McD and it isn’t close.

 

The 49ers also aren’t paying a QB - even though they are on QB 3 (major fail) and therefore have been able to spend more on other players.

 

They are 0-3 on QBs and are starting to think they need an improvement again - big red flag.

 

They have also benefited greatly from 1 major rule change that got them many extra high level draft picks when they lost both OCs and DCs.  They have gotten like 6 additional free 3rd round picks because of timing - which of course adds to their talent pool.

Shanahan has never lost a game in the playoffs when the best QB on the field played on his team.

 

He has also won several playoff games where his QB was largely inferior to his opponent’s.

 

Can McD say the same? 
 

I don’t understand the logic of holding SB losses with an average QB at best against Shanny, but not holding the annual divisional round appearance with arguably the best QB in the league against McD.

39 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I'll make it simple

 

 Shanahan coaching this roster w Allen would have a minimum of 1 Super Bowl win

 

McDermott coaching the Niners would be better than 0-5 vs the Chiefs

I agree with the first.

 

I don’t agree with the second. I don’t think anyone outside of the Shanny tree could’ve done more with Purdy/Jimmy G.

53 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

So now you are punishing McD because his team makes the playoffs every year and wins games in the playoffs every year

Lmao this is very funny. You punish Shanny for his SB losses when McD hasn’t sniffed one.

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

So it is better to have a coach that after this year will have missed the playoffs 4 of 8 seasons and has lost to KC (and many other teams in addition) and has a worse win %, moved up to draft their future QB and totally whiffed, but because he has made SBs in the other conference and still lost to the team that beats us - we should change.
 

My God that is just wrong.

 

Let’s get rid of the guy that has made the playoffs 7 of 8 years, has developed a butt ton of players - including the QB- has the second best winning % of any coach during the last 5 years, is universally loved by his players - including Josh - has the best head to head record versus Reid and Mahomes, but let’s just move to another hypothetical coach and expect success.

 

I mean it is not like high end QBs - Burrows, Herbert, Tua, Rodgers, Murray, Lawrence, etc have and will miss the playoffs because coaching.  Yeah let’s throw away what we have for a very small hypothetical shot that some other coach will be better.  I mean it isn’t like the majority of coaching changes result in failure.  It isn’t like we went through 17 years shifting coach after coach and watching talented players want out because of the lack of culture.

 

This quoted argument really kills me - we shouldn’t count their losses to KC because they weren’t in the playoffs - really 🤦‍♂️.  So now you are punishing McD because his team makes the playoffs every year and wins games in the playoffs every year.  Again I will take a coach that guides his team to the playoffs year after year over a guy that is hitting 50% all the time.

This is the first time since prior to 2020 a QB will finish with over a 65 QBR and not have a winning record (Burrow) these other QB’s you list aren’t even in this conversation. Roger’s missing the playoffs like once when he wasn’t 100 years ole? Lawerence is talked about on these forums as a bust. Herbert and Kyler Murray? 🤣. These guys aren’t MVP’s.

 

Allen is what has given McD this consistency. Not enough Andy Daltons in the world to let Sean in the playoffs this much without A) an MVP that lets his defense front run and B)a very poor division. 

Edited December 6 by Mikie2times

[Billsfed1]

As of right now…the top 3 coaches in the NFL are McDermott-Reid-Campbell, in no particular order.

 

Everyone else is on multiple tiers underneath, and it’s debatable who is amongst which tier.  

 

What I’ve always appreciated about Sean is he can be as serious as a heart attack where you have to have that, but (lately) has done a nice job becoming more…relatable shall we say.  

 

Obviously a good X’s and O’s guy, love the wrestling background/mindset, always have.  He’s improved in game management, reigned in the challenges a bit, still aggressive with 4th downs.  He’s also not looking uncomfortable at halftime anymore, not just trying to blaze thru the interview to get to the lockeroom ASAP.  

 

He’s not perfect…nor is any coach, but he’s still improving and I think he’s the type of guy that will always have that in the crosshairs.  

 

My only criticism this year, is he still looks antsy with the local Buffalo media…always asking when the last question is.  He’s gotta change that, making a few more minutes for these reporters isn’t going to be the difference between him winning or losing a game…otherwise, A+

 

Grateful to have him.

 

 

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

I totally agree - especially coming out of college that Shanny offense would never have worked for Josh.

 

I don't understand this take at all, and it's not the first time I've seen it. You're basically saying that the three best QBs in the NFL right now wouldn't fit into Shanahan's offense. That doesn't make any sense. There's no offensive system where Brock Purdy can be reasonably successful but three elite QBs wouldn't have been able to develop.

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

That because we don’t need a QB, the biggest black eye on Shanny/Lynch in not being able to find one is largely irrelevant.

 

 

And also they haven't had any chances of finding an elite QB since 2018. Honestly their biggest sin was failing to take Mahomes their first year together in 2017, and then failing to either trade up slightly for Allen or draft Lamar in 2018. Those were the last reasonable chances they had to seriously upgrade the position. When they finally took their big swing in 2021 their options were Trey Lance, Mac Jones, and Justin Fields. That's just terrible timing with no possible good outcomes, but it's reasonable to criticize them for not addressing the position sooner than their 5th year together. If they're smart they'll recognize that the current team's window is done.  They need to tear it down and take another big swing at QB. Shanahan's curse is that he constantly manages to get top of the league offensive production out of middling QBs, and as a result they talk themselves into staying the course which puts a hard cap on the team's ceiling. If he hasn't learned that by now he never will.

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't understand this take at all, and it's not the first time I've seen it. You're basically saying that the three best QBs in the NFL right now wouldn't fit into Shanahan's offense. That doesn't make any sense. There's no offensive system where Brock Purdy can be reasonably successful but three elite QBs wouldn't have been able to develop.

They don’t watch Niners games. 
 

Brock makes plays off schedule all the time. It’s probably his best skill and the biggest difference between him and Jimmy G, and it doesn’t hold a candle to Allen’s ability to extend plays.

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

And also they haven't had any chances of finding an elite QB since 2018. Honestly their biggest sin was failing to take Mahomes their first year together in 2017, and then failing to either trade up slightly for Allen or draft Lamar in 2018. Those were the last reasonable chances they had to seriously upgrade the position. When they finally took their big swing in 2021 their options were Trey Lance, Mac Jones, and Justin Fields. That's just terrible timing with no possible good outcomes, but it's reasonable to criticize them for not addressing the position sooner than their 5th year together. If they're smart they'll recognize that the current team's window is done.  They need to tear it down and take another big swing at QB. Shanahan's curse is that he constantly manages to get top of the league offensive production out of middling QBs, and as a result they talk themselves into staying the course which puts a hard cap on the team's ceiling. If he hasn't learned that by now he never will.

Meh, they chose their fate trading a second for Jimmy G and making him one of the highest paid QB’s in the league at the time.

 

They had two firsts in 2020. They took a COMPLETE bust in Kinlaw and then obviously hit on Aiyuk. Love was there and so was Hurts.

 

I think the Lance whiff is gonna really make them gun shy, unless ownership gives them complete confidence in taking another swing.

[HappyDays]

24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They had two firsts in 2020. They took a COMPLETE bust in Kinlaw and then obviously hit on Aiyuk. Love was there and so was Hurts.

 

Good point about Love, I forgot he was there for the taking in that draft. So yeah they have missed several opportunities to get the position right.

 

I could see Shanahan having the Andy Reid career. Knock on the door a bunch of times but eventually get fired for failing to break through, and then finally get the elite QB on his next team and build a dynasty.

 

Keeping it on the topic of the thread - the main difference between Shanahan and McDermott is there is a pretty glaring reason Shanahan hasn't been able to break though. Maybe it's his own fault for being complacent at QB, but it isn't difficult to foresee him breaking through if he ever gets that missing piece. Whereas with McDermott he already has the elite QB, he has the owner that writes blank checks, so what other conditions does he need to break through? Seems to me like the primary missing condition is that he just has to coach better in the playoffs. On that front I am more optimistic now than I thought I would be coming into the season. If we win the Super Bowl I won't be here saying McDermott backed into it or got lucky, I'll say he legitimately earned it.

 

Edited December 6 by HappyDays