McD: Has your view changed?

[Real McClappy]

3 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

 

There's a difference between two types of posters.

 

Ones that can see variables have changed to allow more positive results than before, and others that are unable to see how changing variables can improve future performance. 

 

All one can do is improve on past mistakes. That's how success in human history works. The 19th century bridge collapsed? Improve the structural foundation and rebuilt. Plane crashed? Make sure to double check the widget is working during the checklist process. 

 

Bills have improved. Some posters just can't extrapolate the probability of future outcomes based on changing variables. 

They can, prove it.

 

I'm sure this thread in about 2 months will be hashed one way or another. 

 

I love how the line is drawn in this thread. You're either a hater (#4) or supporter? There is zero room in between.  

 

Most logical fans are grateful for the culture shift that McD has created and the numerous AFC East championships year over year. 

 

As @BarleyNY pointed out we are 0-6 against 1-4 AFC seeds during the playoffs. If that is not eye popping for some to date, I'm not sure what to say?  We have a straight up 1st ballot future HoF QB on our roster that has pretty much played lights out in the playoffs and still can't advance to the big show. Simple question, who's to blame?  How long do we continue playoff loss circle with Allen while now in his Prime years?  There are prob only 3-4 of them left in Josh at this phase.

 

The haters just want a Lombardi. How is that hard for some posters to extrapolate based off prior showings from our team?

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Real McClappy

[Andrew Son]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You're responding to someone who apparently believes a Super Bowl win wouldn't be satisfying to some Bills fans lol, that is quite clearly the wrong side of this 

Would a SB win change your opinion of McD?

 

Or would it be more of Allen finally dragging that anchor across the finish line?

[GoBills808]

Just now, Andrew Son said:

Would a SB win change your opinion of McD?

 

Or would it be more of Allen finally dragging that anchor across the finish line?

Of course it would. If we win the SB McDermott and co are made men and they get to stay forever

 

Unlike @GunnerBillI believe winning a championship is primarily what defines a coach's career

[Alphadawg7]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

McDermott is absolutely better than Pederson

 

A blind squirrel can find a nut 

 

Striking iron while it's hot 

 

Right place right time 

 

I could use a thousand analogies but Sean McDermott is a team builder and a winner and a  tactician

 

I would take McD over quite a few SB winning coaches TBH.  Just some quick ones that come to mind:  Ditka, Pederson, Switzer, Seifert, Gruden, McCarthy, Dungy, Kubiak, Billick

McD is a better coach and leader than all of them IMHO.  

 

 

[Andrew Son]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Of course it would. If we win the SB McDermott and co are made men and they get to stay forever

 

Unlike @GunnerBillI believe winning a championship is primarily what defines a coach's career

I don’t really want to delve into this discussion again, but that second paragraph doesn’t fit with my view of your takes.  Specifically your views on Belichick and Shanahan.

[Gregg]

8 minutes ago, Andrew Son said:

Would a SB win change your opinion of McD?

 

Or would it be more of Allen finally dragging that anchor across the finish line?

 

Both would get credit. Bill gets credit for being the GOAT HC but having the GOAT QB was a big reason he has all those Super Bowl wins. Right now, I would say McDermott is the 3rd best coach in Bills history with a chance to climb higher. He has already passed Knox and only trails Marv and Saban. Saban being #1 on the list as he is the only coach to bring back-to-back championships to Buffalo in 1964 and 1965.

Edited 10 hours ago by Gregg

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Of course it would. If we win the SB McDermott and co are made men and they get to stay forever

 

Unlike @GunnerBillI believe winning a championship is primarily what defines a coach's career

 

I believe it is what defines a career too. I just don't necessarily believe that every coach who wins a Superbowl is automatically a better coach than every coach that hasn't. It isn't that simple. I think a coach needs a championship to be regarded as great. But having a championship alone does not equal greatness. 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I believe it is what defines a career too. I just don't necessarily believe that every coach who wins a Superbowl is automatically a better coach than every coach that hasn't. It isn't that simple. I think a coach needs a championship to be regarded as great. But having a championship alone does not equal greatness. 

 

Barry Switzer is not a better HC than McD because he has a ring. 

[MikeSpeed]

Finding a good HC is difficult.

Here are all the HCs since Marv...

Wade Phillips 

Gregg Williams 

Mike Mularkey 

Dick Jauron 

Perry Fewell 

Doug Marrone 

Rex Ryan

Anthony Lynn

 

Enough said

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I believe it is what defines a career too. I just don't necessarily believe that every coach who wins a Superbowl is automatically a better coach than every coach that hasn't. It isn't that simple. I think a coach needs a championship to be regarded as great. But having a championship alone does not equal greatness. 

It's very easy for me to reconcile the concepts that winning a championship in pro football is one of the most difficult accomplishments in professional sports and that a HC who achieves it cannot logically be considered less than one who hasn't.

[TheFunPolice]

I think McDermott is definitely good enough to win a Super Bowl. 

 

I would absolutely say he's better than Doug Pederson or Mike McCarthy, who both won in the past. 

 

I think he's Tomlin with a top QB. Before you laugh, Tomlin with a top QB went to 2 Super Bowls and won 1. 

[amprov56]

14 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

John Rauch, Harvey Johnson, Jim Ringo, Kay Stephenson, Hank Bullough, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron, Perry Fewell, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan, Anthony Lynn or their ghosts all say "Hi".

 

 

 

Right on!

[SoonerBillsFan]

No. After 13 seconds he has to prove he is the guy to get us to a Superbowl let alone win it.

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

I've always loved him as an architect and a leader.  I've felt that his gameday management, especially in big games, was not optimal and that he wasn't buying into his own 'constant growth and improvement' mantra. 

 

I'm happy to say that I believe that has changed, and he has made changes to his approaches that so far are yielding results.  Haven't really noticed a 'coaching not to lose' situation this year.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It's very easy for me to reconcile the concepts that winning a championship in pro football is one of the most difficult accomplishments in professional sports and that a HC who achieves it cannot logically be considered less than one who hasn't.

 

I understand your take. But I genuinely don't think that logic holds. There is too much randomness, too many variables. 

[ToGoGo]

57 minutes ago, Real McClappy said:

They can, prove it.

 

I'm sure this thread in about 2 months will be hashed one way or another. 

 

I love how the line is drawn in this thread. You're either a hater (#4) or supporter? There is zero room in between.  

 

Most logical fans are grateful for the culture shift that McD has created and the numerous AFC East championships year over year. 

 

As @BarleyNY pointed out we are 0-6 against 1-4 AFC seeds during the playoffs. if that is not eye popping for some to date, I'm not sure what to say?  We have a straight up 1st ballot future HoF QB on our roster that has pretty much played lights out in the playoffs and still can't advance to the big show. Simple question, who's to blame? How long to we continue playoff loss circle with Allen while now in his Prime years? There are prob only 3-4 of them left in him at this phase.

 

The haters just want a Lombardi. How is that hard for some posters to extrapolate based off prior showings from our team?

 

 

You literally just proved my point.

 

"Prove it" and "I'll believe it when I see it" are the polar opposite of extrapolating future outcomes based on changing variables. You know, how every major business or oddsmaker bases their decisions. 

 

You then proceeded to list past outcomes. And I'm sure you're just as grateful for McDermott as the rest of us "McClappy". 

[amprov56]

2 hours ago, MikeSpeed said:

Finding a good HC is difficult.

Here are all the HCs since Marv...

Wade Phillips 

Gregg Williams 

Mike Mularkey 

Dick Jauron 

Perry Fewell 

Doug Marrone 

Rex Ryan

Anthony Lynn

 

Enough said

But out there somewhere is this mythical Offensive Genius that will create the greatest passing offense in history and immediately win a SB!

Edited 7 hours ago by amprov56

[CincyBillsFan]

My view of McD is in the process of changing.  He does seem to be coaching differently, his 4th down gambles come to mind, while still maintaining what he's always been good at - building a solid culture.

 

I also think McD may be benefiting from a shift in the NFL as it moves from total offensive domination to a more balanced defensive/offensive split.  Just look at the return of the RB to prominence and the diminished importance of having a stud WR.

 

 

[boyst]

Been avoiding this because being a big meanie ain't worth it but want to go on the record. No. I don't like him. When he can at least show up big in a big game I'll consider it. He needs to win when it matters in a game that matters when coaching makes a difference. 

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

The problem I have when people want to make a change is that you are trying to improve upon a top 3-4 level coach and a top 3-4 level GM and the chances of that are super slim.  And for the people that say get a top QB (like Allen) and anyone can make the playoffs - it just isn’t true - Burrow is going to miss the playoffs again - Tua is another guy that will be a failure - Lawrence in Jacksonville was widely considered a top prospect and they stink - Dak Prescott.  The list of top QBs that make the playoffs year after year are Allen, Mahomes, and Lamar and they are rock steady at the top.  You mess with that and any of those guys could be Burrow in Cincinnati and miss the playoffs 1/2 the time.

 

McDermott and Beane actually have two things going for them:

 

1) An elite QB who raises his level of play in the playoffs

2) An owner willing to write blank checks 

 

They're the only pair in the NFL that has both of those incredible advantages. Not even the Chiefs - the Hunts are not as willing to let their GM front load a bunch of money and cheat the cap a bit.

 

So you have to understand that for those of us who have been on the side of wanting a change, we recognize that McDermott and Beane have very unique advantages that don't apply to their competitors. And we wonder if a different regime could accomplish more given those advantages.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by HappyDays