McD: Has your view changed?

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't discount that. But it's also true that if Garappolo and Purdy played at even a 75% playoff Josh Allen level the 49ers would have two Super Bowls right now. And so to me it seems that with the 49ers the QB gap has been significantly larger than the coaching gap, and with us it's been the opposite. The 49ers defense this past Super Bowl held the Chiefs to 3 points in the 1st half and then intercepted Mahomes at midfield to start the 2nd half. Can you imagine if we ever had a playoff result like that against them? We're winning by two scores at least. The problem was Purdy couldn't hit a single throw from a messy pocket. It isn't reasonable to look at that result and say "Shanahan can't beat Reid," while simultaneously looking at our result against the Chiefs in the divisional round and say "McDermott got unlucky." The Bills defensive stats in the playoffs are what they are. The goofy coaching decisions in some of our playoff losses are what they are. You can't just hand wave that all away. Eventually McDermott just has to get it done with this QB. I think it is more than reasonable to want a change if he can't get it done this season or next.

 

I think it's much easier to say McDermott got unlucky because unlike Shanahan, McDermott has actually shown he can beat Reid in the regular season at least. And has done it 4 times. Shanahan on the other hand in regular season and Super Bowl I believe is 0-4 against him. I would say McDermott has gotten unlucky 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

The point isn’t that complicated. Jimmy G is playing against one of the best of all time in most that sample. You’re absolutely off your meds if you think McD is taking Jimmy G and Brock Purdy to the playoffs 7 of 8 seasons. 

 

Where did I say that? Totally irrelevant to my point. 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't discount that. But it's also true that if Garappolo and Purdy played at even a 75% playoff Josh Allen level the 49ers would have two Super Bowls right now. And so to me it seems that with the 49ers the QB gap has been significantly larger than the coaching gap, and with us it's been the opposite. The 49ers defense this past Super Bowl held the Chiefs to 3 points in the 1st half and then intercepted Mahomes at midfield to start the 2nd half. Can you imagine if we ever had a playoff result like that against them? We're winning by two scores at least. The problem was Purdy couldn't hit a single throw from a messy pocket. It isn't reasonable to look at that result and say "Shanahan can't beat Reid," while simultaneously looking at our result against the Chiefs in the divisional round and say "McDermott got unlucky." The Bills defensive stats in the playoffs are what they are. The goofy coaching decisions in some of our playoff losses are what they are. You can't just hand wave that all away. Eventually McDermott just has to get it done with this QB. I think it is more than reasonable to want a change if he can't get it done this season or next.

 

 

I'm not the one hand waving away coaching failures. You are. Just not equally. For the Bills failures they are what they are and for the 49ers failures there is context. It just doesn't wash. 

Edited December 6 by GunnerBill

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

In Shannahan's defense, Lance can't even beat out Cooper Rush for the backup job in Dallas. That has to obviously say something 

 

I am absolutely not making the argument that Trey Lance got hosed. He is a bust. But if you are pulling the plug on a guy you traded way up for (and Kyle has a level of personnel control there way above most first time Head Coaches) after 3 games realistically what would the rope be for any rookie who comes in and struggles early? 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't discount that. But it's also true that if Garappolo and Purdy played at even a 75% playoff Josh Allen level the 49ers would have two Super Bowls right now. And so to me it seems that with the 49ers the QB gap has been significantly larger than the coaching gap, and with us it's been the opposite. The 49ers defense this past Super Bowl held the Chiefs to 3 points in the 1st half and then intercepted Mahomes at midfield to start the 2nd half. Can you imagine if we ever had a playoff result like that against them? We're winning by two scores at least. The problem was Purdy couldn't hit a single throw from a messy pocket. It isn't reasonable to look at that result and say "Shanahan can't beat Reid," while simultaneously looking at our result against the Chiefs in the divisional round and say "McDermott got unlucky." The Bills defensive stats in the playoffs are what they are. The goofy coaching decisions in some of our playoff losses are what they are. You can't just hand wave that all away. Eventually McDermott just has to get it done with this QB. I think it is more than reasonable to want a change if he can't get it done this season or next.

 

 

Maybe I am missing something here, but your 49ers defense of losing to the Chiefs is the 2 guys that Shanahan and Lynch have picked to be QBs aren’t as good as the guys McD picked and if they were they would have won - ok, but that choice has always been on them and who they wanted at QB.

 

The second part you praise the 49ers D under an offense coach and blame the failure on the offense and then Hammer McD because the Bills offense has been sound and the defense failed.  How does this not ring exactly the same for both of them.  
 

If the Bills are being outcoached because the strength of the Bills coaching is defense and that is being beat - then I would argue the 49ers suffered the same thing by playing great defense and the handpicked QBs failed.

 

If Purdy can’t play from a messy pocket - isn’t it Shanny job to adjust and fix that - roll outs, extra protection, quicker routes, etc, but you blame the QB for the failure and leave the offensive guru as a by product.  When 13 seconds occurred - everyone blames McD implicitly even though Wallace and Poyer have both come out and stated they had a miscommunication and the players messed up the call and were not in the correct position.

 

For the Bills it is coaching and a McD failure - for SF it is his QBs that he picked that is the failure.  It makes no sense.

 

I guess for me the loss is the loss and Shanny has never beaten KC (regular or postseason) and he has also been outplayed and beaten by the Bills in their match-ups.  

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Maybe I am missing something here, but your 49ers defense of losing to the Chiefs is the 2 guys that Shanahan and Lynch have picked to be QBs aren’t as good as the guys McD picked and if they were they would have won - ok, but that choice has always been on them and who they wanted at QB.

 

The second part you praise the 49ers D under an offense coach and blame the failure on the offense and then Hammer McD because the Bills offense has been sound and the defense failed.  How does this not ring exactly the same for both of them.  
 

If the Bills are being outcoached because the strength of the Bills coaching is defense and that is being beat - then I would argue the 49ers suffered the same thing by playing great defense and the handpicked QBs failed.

 

If Purdy can’t play from a messy pocket - isn’t it Shanny job to adjust and fix that - roll outs, extra protection, quicker routes, etc, but you blame the QB for the failure and leave the offensive guru as a by product.  When 13 seconds occurred - everyone blames McD implicitly even though Wallace and Poyer have both come out and stated they had a miscommunication and the players messed up the call and were not in the correct position.

 

For the Bills it is coaching and a McD failure - for SF it is his QBs that he picked that is the failure.  It makes no sense.

 

I guess for me the loss is the loss and Shanny has never beaten KC (regular or postseason) and he has also been outplayed and beaten by the Bills in their match-ups.  

 

To sum up your post (which I agree with)

 

- Sean McDermott to blame for UDFA Levi Wallace's failure

- Kyle Shanahan not to blame for Mr Irrelevant Brock Purdy's failure

 

Edited December 6 by GunnerBill

[TheFunPolice]

This season has definitely changed how I view McDermott. 

 

I was in the "we need to be better" camp lately, but when you look around the league McDermott is just as good as almost anyone else, IMO. Andy Reid is a class of his own, but there's only 1 Andy Reid. I still say he's the uncrowned GOAT. 

 

Last night during the Lions/Packers game I was ranting about how much I cannot stand LeFleur, and how he squandered back to back MVP seasons by Rodgers and his teams never show up in the playoffs, and someone watching the game with me said "well, you could say all the same things about McDermott..."

 

To some degree, but there are a couple huge caveats:

 

1. Allen was and is still early in his career. Rodgers was an established HOF level player (thus back to back MVP seasons)

2. McDermott's defenses typically enter the playoffs decimated with injuries. Lefleur's offenses did not. 

3. McDermott has never had the #1 seed. Packers did. 

4. McDermott has to compete in a much tougher conference, especially in recent memory. Most of the top QBs are in the AFC, although there are some young and up and coming QBs in the NFC. We have to get past Jackson, Mahomes, and Burrow, let alone the 2nd tier guys.

 

The main thing people can legitimately say against McDermott is that he hasn't found a way to get past the Chiefs dynasty in the playoffs. I think he will this year, but that remains to be seen.

 

If you take emotion out of it, there is a LOT of mediocre to bad coaching in the NFL. There's also quite a few flash in the pan type guys like Doug Pederson, who caught lightning in a bottle once, looked like great coaches, then flamed out. 

 

In fact, Pederson is a great example of "just get to the game." If you get to the Super Bowl you have a chance to win it, no matter what. But you have to just get there. 

 

I would go this far, with the NFL the way it is, so much talent, single elimination, the way a game can shift on a penalty, fumble, missed kick...: you could regather a 4 win team in February, get everyone back in town, and put them in the Super Bowl against either conference champion, and I think it would be a hell of a game still. 

 

So, you just need to get there, and McDermott is definitely good enough to get there. More to the point, he's good enough to get there more than once, and the more times you're IN the Super Bowl, the more times you have a chance to win the Super Bowl. 

[Mister Defense]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

Can somebody else have an opposing view than you and not be a hater, little kid, no life experience, irrational, bizarre, ignorant, and you expect to have this turn into an intelligent conversation?  Wow. Sounds good.

 

I will try to be more open minded to the haters’ opinions, using your open mindedness  as a guide to address those with differing opinions than mine.

 

I will simply use your more generous words and simply imply that that they are mentally ill and “absolutely off their meds” when posters disagree with me.

 

Sick of how this forum has devolved.  It seems almost every thread,  and even the most positive of OPS, is soon taken over by those who find no good at all in our superb team. Only a tiny percentage of posters are involved, but they are on a mission to undermine.

 

And like I have said, when the Bills are most successful they become even more aggressive, hateful.

 

[FireChans]

23 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Yes they acquired them as draft picks and now that they have to pay them

They have paid them. Bosa is locked up. Aiyuk is locked up. They are likely gonna cut Deebo but he’s old and washed. 
 

Even if they pay Purdy (I wouldn’t but that’s a different discussion), they aren’t gonna feel his cap hit like we didn’t feel Josh’s for about 3 years after he gets a contract.

 

This stuff is really overblown imo.

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I will try to be more open minded to the haters’ opinions, using your open mindedness  as a guide to address those with differing opinions than mine.

 

I will simply use your more generous words and simply imply that that they are mentally ill and “absolutely off their meds” when posters disagree with me.

 

Sick of how this forum has devolved.  It seems almost every thread,  and even the most positive of OPS, is soon taken over by those who find no good at all in our superb team. Only a tiny percentage of posters are involved, but they are on a mission to undermine.

 

And like I have said, when the Bills are most successful they become even more aggressive, hateful.

 

 

You're wrong, and incredibly over-sensitive. The vast majority of us who are willing to discuss issues and provide criticisms are nothing like what you perceive if you'd actually read posts instead of writing people off immediately and then calling them names.

 

I do agree that it is sad to see your type of posting devolve this forum.

 

 

Edited December 6 by DrDawkinstein

[Mikie2times]

 

3 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I will try to be more open minded to the haters’ opinions, using your open mindedness  as a guide to address those with differing opinions than mine.

 

I will simply use your more generous words and simply imply that that they are mentally ill and “absolutely off their meds” when posters disagree with me.

 

Sick of how this forum has devolved.  It seems almost every thread,  and even the most positive of OPS, is soon taken over by those who find no good at all in our superb team. Only a tiny percentage of posters are involved, but they are on a mission to undermine.

 

And like I have said, when the Bills are most successful they become even more aggressive, hateful.

 

If you can't understand why some of us don't like what has evolved and can only summarize it as being a hater, I really don't know what to tell you. We have had a lot of success in this franchises history in similar ways to what we have now without having ever won a Super Bowl. On the front page alone we have tons of threads dedicated to Sean being discussed for coach of the year and talking about the Super Bowl. Focus your attention on those if you don't like opposing views. 

[JerseyBills]

Lot of ppl are eating crow on here saying McD is not the answer. I've always defender him, thought he's 1 of the best in the game , proven year after year and now with 1 of the highest dead cap in the league,  still has a SB contender and arguably best team in nfl. 

Should be COTY

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Lot of ppl are eating crow on here saying McD is not the answer. I've always defender him, thought he's 1 of the best in the game , proven year after year and now with 1 of the highest dead cap in the league,  still has a SB contender and arguably best team in nfl. 

Should be COTY

I would imagine literally zero posters on this forum didn't trust him in the regular season. Lets celebrate the crow eating over a Super Bowl or hell, getting to one, or hell getting to a conference championship game. Not regular season success. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I would imagine literally zero posters on this forum didn't trust him in the regular season. Lets celebrate the crow eating over a Super Bowl or hell, getting to one, or hell getting to a conference championship game. Not regular season success. 

 

Or even a road playoff win. 0-4 (Jac, Hou, KC x 2)

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I would imagine literally zero posters on this forum didn't trust him in the regular season. Lets celebrate the crow eating over a Super Bowl or hell, getting to one, or hell getting to a conference championship game. Not regular season success. 

 

I mean some of the people who would say that now were also predicting 7-9 wins before the season. Not all, granted. But there were people who are now arguing "ah its just the regular season" who were in the pre season predictions thread forecasting playoff misses and losing seasons in some cases.

[JGMcD2]

23 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I would imagine literally zero posters on this forum didn't trust him in the regular season. Lets celebrate the crow eating over a Super Bowl or hell, getting to one, or hell getting to a conference championship game. Not regular season success. 

This is still one of my main issues, what is the objective achievement that we're celebrating? If it's winning a Super Bowl, well then, you're saying 31 other teams are automatically failures every year. If it's getting to a Super Bowl, well then that seems odd, because commentary upthread was he's only a "good coach" if he never wins a Super Bowl. 

 

Your point boils down to the fact that you believe people cannot improve or improve significantly enough to make a difference. You must have loved Josh Allen on draft day... should I check the receipts?

Edited December 6 by JGMcD2

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

Are you saying you think McD would have gone to 3 NFCCG’s, and a SB with 4 seasons of Jimmy G and Brock Purdy at QB as HC of the Niners?

 

You’re welcome to that take but I do not agree.

Didn’t McD just go for a 4th and 2 to beat KC rather then let them get the ball back like 3 weeks ago?

Brock Purdy and Tua are not in the same ballpark when you are talking making off-schedule plays. 
 

How many Niners games have you watched in the last 2 years?

lol-  is that what you think I said?  
 

do you think that Shanahan would’ve gone to 3 AFCCGs and a SB in 4 seasons if he had to play the chiefs in 2 divisional rounds and 1 AFFCG?  

[GoBills808]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

This is still one of my main issues, what is the objective achievement that we're celebrating? If it's winning a Super Bowl, well then, you're saying 31 other teams are automatically failures every year. If it's getting to a Super Bowl, well then that seems odd, because commentary upthread was he's only a "good coach" if he never wins a Super Bowl. 

 

Your point boils down to the fact that you believe people cannot improve or improve significantly enough to make a difference. You must have loved Josh Allen on draft day... should I check the receipts?

not sure @GunnerBillwants to go there

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean some of the people who would say that now were also predicting 7-9 wins before the season. Not all, granted. But there were people who are now arguing "ah its just the regular season" who were in the pre season predictions thread forecasting playoff misses and losing seasons in some cases.

He is seems like a great leader and has done an incredible job this year. He's one of the most successful coaches in NFL history in the regular season. At least from my perspective any issues I have with him are in the postseason. From what I can tell most people on here feel similar. They don't think we can get it done in the postseason with him for various reasons. I don't know how you could knock what he's been able to do in the regular season. Even if your opinion is Allen is pulling more weight most great coaches have great QB's as well. 

[Einstein's Dog]

15 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I would imagine literally zero posters on this forum didn't trust him in the regular season. Lets celebrate the crow eating over a Super Bowl or hell, getting to one, or hell getting to a conference championship game. Not regular season success. 

What?  Literally zero?  Did you even look at the thread brought up that was preseason asking if the team was a playoff contender?  Many posters said the Bills wouldn't make the playoffs.   And the people who were worried about the playoffs weren't all anti-McDermott, a lot of it had to do with the talent of the team, the "retool", the digging out of the Diggs disaster and the cap restraints that came with it.

 

But now that we're safely in the playoffs the goal posts are trying to be moved.  It's some playoff type metric that needs to be met - be it divisional round, AFCCG, or SB appearance, or SB win - whatever it is that isn't accomplished it seems.

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Einstein's Dog said:

What?  Literally zero?  Did you even look at the thread brought up that was preseason asking if the team was a playoff contender?  Many posters said the Bills wouldn't make the playoffs.   And the people who were worried about the playoffs weren't all anti-McDermott, a lot of it had to do with the talent of the team, the "retool", the digging out of the Diggs disaster and the cap restraints that came with it.

 

But now that we're safely in the playoffs the goal posts are trying to be moved.  It's some playoff type metric that needs to be met - be it divisional round, AFCCG, or SB appearance, or SB win - whatever it is that isn't accomplished it seems.

 

no, the goal posts are not being moved. you just don't understand where they're supposed to be

 

the state of the afceast combined w Allen and a stable FO means we are going to be heavy favorites for the division every single year

 

and arguing that postseason success is such a crazy threshold to hold a HC is on its face ludicrous