McD: Has your view changed?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

I just watched Andy Reid who is supposedly a genius make one of the dumbest decisions I’ve ever seen that should’ve coughed the 1 seed up for the chiefs and he got bailed out by dumb luck lol 

 

I watched Dan Campbell go full meathead in the NFC championship and coach his team right out of the game..  I’m over 13 seconds at this point 

 

 

[HappyDays]

40 minutes ago, Mango said:

It is 100% an organizational thing because the owner made it one. And when the Bills missed for 17 years straights it’s because they had an owner in his 80’s and 90’s. A big pet of the draught was Ralph’s inability to lead. That’s almost unanimously agreed upon. 
 

Let’s not forget Terry’s secret meetings with  Darcy Regier when he first took over and when questioned his response was “nobody has a monopoly on hockey knowledge”

 

Nobody answers to anybody but Terry. He’s super open about that. He has preached flag management since day one. We saw it with the Bills when he hired a HC against his GM’s wishes. Then fired him without consulting him. There’s loads of examples like this at KBC.

 

Terry Pegula is so much more culpable than just accidentally hirng the wrong HC/GM 100% off the time.

 

Think about that. At very best Terry Pegula has made the wrong GM/HC hire 100% of the time for 13 straight years. And dozens and dozens and dozens of NHL players refuse to come here.

 

Here is a set of insane Pegula lead Sabres stats. The day Pegula purchased that Sabres they had the 4th highest P% in the history of the league. From 1971 to the date of purchase only 3 other franchises had been better via P%. They’re now 13th. If you took Scotty Bowmmans best 10 years ever. Not best 10 year span, but best 10 seasons and linked them together starting next year, the Sabres still would not get back to 4th over all in P%.
 

Think about that. The 10 best years from the best coach to ever coach the game still wouldn’t be enough to right the wrongs of Terry Pegula.

 

The Sabres also used to average 99%+ attendance, near the top of the league, and were 82% last year, 4th from

the bottom.
 

What Terry Pegula has done to hockey in Buffalo is possibly irreparable.  

 

Hes maybe the worst owner the NHL has ever seen and we’re incredibly lucky that McBeane have been able to play him like a fiddle. For that I’ll be forever free grateful. 

 

I have zero interest in hockey and only a casual interest in seeing the Sabres become good again, so I have to say this post was sickly satisfying. You really laid it out... When I first heard that Lindy Ruff was hired for a second go-around, my immediate reaction (as, again, someone that doesn't really follow the sport) was that it reeked of an owner who had utterly lost confidence in himself to make good decisions for his franchise. Trying to re-capture lightning in a bottle never works out.

 

I will say though the NFL is not the NHL. No coach in the modern era signs on without being handed total control of the organization and Terry knows that. He would have a consulting firm run the hiring process and then his only job would be to write blank checks for the new regime, as he's done for McBeane. His mismanagement of the Sabres doesn't even enter the discussion for me. But I understand if you follow the Sabres closely and care about them the way that you do about the Bills, it would be hard to ignore the comparison.

[Mister Defense]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yes yes yes.

 

Or, "Yes sir, can I have some more of that delicious hate! Love me some serious Pegula hate! More more more please!"

[FireChans]

Just now, Mister Defense said:

 

Or, "Yes sir, can I have some more of that delicious hate! Love me some serious Pegula hate! More more more please!"

Do you still get Sabres seasons or nah lol

[LEBills]

I certainly like McD the person and have appreciated what he has built. 7 years of excellent football has been a joy…until January.

 

McD has always been a culture guy but I think one area he lacked a united vision is with his coordinators. Leslie was older and had more experience than McD, they have a similar D philosophy but I think McD left things to Frazier too much. On offense, I think he was a bit lost with where to go with it when he got the job as a defensive guy. So he gave Dennison  try then stumbled onto Daboll where they had a lot of success. But McD always seemed to want to have a more balanced offense and Daboll didn’t. We have seen how much the two liked each other.
 

Now with Babich and Brady (after detouring to just not a good OC in Dorsey), McD has coordinators that he can dictate his vision better to. I think that is just making the talent that was acquired by Beane with McDs vision in mind now work better on the field than past versions of the Bills. And I think you see that harmony and joy in the way players talk about this team and how loose McD has been lately (snow angels?!)

 

In the end, McD will be remembered either as a Super Bowl champ or the guy who wasted Joshs prime. But I do think this is the version of the team that can do it. If they don’t get out of the divisional round, I will be shocked. If that’s the case a change would be necessary. Because if I believe the best version of the McD Bills is this and we fall short, we have to try something different…

[Coach Tuesday]

57 minutes ago, Mango said:

It is 100% an organizational thing because the owner made it one. And when the Bills missed for 17 years straights it’s because they had an owner in his 80’s and 90’s. A big pet of the draught was Ralph’s inability to lead. That’s almost unanimously agreed upon. 
 

Let’s not forget Terry’s secret meetings with  Darcy Regier when he first took over and when questioned his response was “nobody has a monopoly on hockey knowledge”

 

Nobody answers to anybody but Terry. He’s super open about that. He has preached flag management since day one. We saw it with the Bills when he hired a HC against his GM’s wishes. Then fired him without consulting him. There’s loads of examples like this at KBC.

 

Terry Pegula is so much more culpable than just accidentally hirng the wrong HC/GM 100% off the time.

 

Think about that. At very best Terry Pegula has made the wrong GM/HC hire 100% of the time for 13 straight years. And dozens and dozens and dozens of NHL players refuse to come here.

 

Here is a set of insane Pegula lead Sabres stats. The day Pegula purchased that Sabres they had the 4th highest P% in the history of the league. From 1971 to the date of purchase only 3 other franchises had been better via P%. They’re now 13th. If you took Scotty Bowmmans best 10 years ever. Not best 10 year span, but best 10 seasons and linked them together starting next year, the Sabres still would not get back to 4th over all in P%.
 

Think about that. The 10 best years from the best coach to ever coach the game still wouldn’t be enough to right the wrongs of Terry Pegula.

 

The Sabres also used to average 99%+ attendance, near the top of the league, and were 82% last year, 4th from

the bottom.
 

What Terry Pegula has done to hockey in Buffalo is possibly irreparable.  

 

Hes maybe the worst owner the NHL has ever seen and we’re incredibly lucky that McBeane have been able to play him like a fiddle. For that I’ll be forever free grateful. 

The worst job I ever had was in college my junior year summer.  Buddy and I got a job working at at a kiosk in a mall trying to get people to sign up for free tickets to win something related to a time share.  Got paid based on number of verified real signups.  We tried many different strategies for getting strangers to fill out their real names and addresses.  One day the soul sucking job got to us and we went and got drunk at the Ruby Tuesdays and left the tickets out on the desk, came back to the most signups ever.  So that was the day we realized that the less involved we were, the less we tried to insert ourselves into the process, the better we did.

 

The Sabres’ only hope is for Terry to some day come to that same realization.

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

The way you talk it's almost as if Brady wasn't behind Belichick or Mahomes behind Reid. Is it a coincidence that that the best coaches of all time just happened to align with two of the best QB's of all time? We sort of have one of those guys as well right? How difficult was it to partner Tom with a new coach and grab a Super Bowl? Not very it would seem. Reids playoff record with Mahomes is 15-3, before Mahomes, 11-13. 

 

I'm not saying your post doesn't have a factual basis. But so much is not fully understood between the relationship of players, systems, and coaches, specifically at QB. Nobody on this forum is going to clear that up either. QB records the last 3 years with a 65 or better QBR (excluding Allen) are 119-43 73.5% in the regular season. We know great QB's are a massive advantage and Josh is probably a tick or two even higher than massive and great. Sean does an amazing job keeping this team grounded. Playing fundamental football. But I'm not going to pretend to know what that looks like without him. The cubbard isn't exactly bare and to think the ceiling is drastically lower than the divisional round just isn't accurate in my opinion. 

 

The purpose of the post was to gauge public opinion more than anything. It seems it's fairly lined up with where it has been. Not much has changed. Sean has done a great job this year and he will be the coach of the Bills for a very long time regardless. But we need to make some progress in the playoffs or this stuff will keep following him. 

I am going to disagree with you pretty strongly on this point, the cupboard is quite bare when it comes to finding coaching talent. If it were easy and quality candidates were hanging off trees, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. 

 

There have been 55 head coach changes (bolded) dating back to 2017 when McDermott was hired. By my count, only 128 unique individuals have interviewed for those roles. How many names on this list inspire confidence? 
 

Sean McDermott

Harold Goodwin 

Frank Reich*

Kris Richard

Vance Joseph

Anthony Lynn

Kyle Shanahan

Dave Toub

Doug Marrone

Tom Coughlin

Chip Kelly

Mike Smith

Josh McDaniels

Sean McVay

Teryl Austin

John Fassel

Matt Patricia

Sean Payton

Steve Wilks

Mike Vrabel

Tom Cable

 

Keith Armstrong

John DeFilippo

James Bettcher

Brian Flores

Jim Schwartz

Pat Shurmur 

Mike Munchak

Matt Nagy

George Edwards

Vic Fangio

Jim Bob Cooter

Winston Moss

Leslie Frazier

Dan Campbell

Matt Rhule

Steve Spagnuolo

Eric Studesville 

Jon Gruden

Bobby Johnson

Tee Martin

Matt LaFleur 

 

Kliff Kingsbury

Jim Caldwell

Adam Gase 

Zac Taylor

Eric Bieniemy

Mike McCarthy

Hue Jackson

Bill Lazor

Todd Monken

Darren Simmons

Shane Waldron

Freddie Kitchens

Matt Eberflus
Nick Sirianni

Kevin Stefanski

Gregg Williams 

Pete Carmichael

Pat Fitzgerald

Chuck Pagano

Joe Philbin

Dennis Allen 

Dowell Loggains

Darren Rizzi

Matt Campbell 
Bruce Arians 

 

Perry Fewell

Brian Daboll

Mike McDaniel

Urban Meyer 

Greg Roman

Robert Saleh

Marvin Lewis 

Joe Judge

Jason Garrett

Don Martindale

Ron Rivera

 

Todd Bowles

Joe Brady

Nathaniel Hackett

Raheem Morris

Arthur Smith

Darrell Bevell

David Culley

Josh McCown

Brandon Staley 

Ryan Day

Aaron Glenn 

Patrick Graham

Mike Kafka

Jerod Mayo

Lincoln Riley

Duce Staley

 

Byron Leftwich

Doug Pederson

Dan Quinn

Brian Callahan

Jonathan Gannon

Luke Getsy

Kellen Moore

Kevin O’Connell

Joe Lombardi

Lovie Smith 

Hines Ward

Rich Bisaccia

Bill O’Brien

Jim Harbaugh

DeMeco Ryans

Thomas Brown

Lou Anarumo

 

Ejiro Evero

Ken Dorsey 
Ben Johnson

Shane Steichen

Jerry Rosburg 

David Shaw 

Jeff Saturday 

Bubba Ventrone

 

Brian Johnson 

Mike Macdonald

Antonio Pierce

Bobby Slowik

Anthony Weaver

Dave Canales

Frank Smith

Chris Tabor 

Giff Smith

 

By my count, there are 12 Head Coaches there that inspire some level of confidence:

 

Sean McDermott 

Sean McVay

Kyle Shannahan

Sean Payton

Mike Vrabel (Unemployed)

Dan Campbell

Matt LaFleur

Nick Sirianni

Bruce Arians (Retired)

Kevin O’Connell

Jim Harbaugh

DeMeco Ryans

 

That’s 22% of all hires dating back to 2017 and less than 10% of all interview candidates. 

Edited December 4 by JGMcD2

[MJS]

Nope. I have always been a McDermott supporter and continue to be. I think he is a top 5 head coach in the NFL and is perfectly capable of bringing a Lombardi Trophy to Buffalo.

 

The time may come in the future when we move on from him. He will immediately go to another franchise and turn them into a contender as well.

[Buffalo ill]

I'm guilty of anti McDermott outbursts after ugly or bone headed loses.  However he, and the team are preparing a big serving of crow for me.  But, the dish is not yet finished.

 

This is trending towards being the best season yet for his team.  If the Bills lay an egg in the playoffs none of it will matter.  Lombardi trophy or bust.

 

I would be honored to write Sean an apology/congratulations letter in the event he wins it all.

[PauleeeWalnuts]

Has to win when the games matter most, and he hasn’t been able to do that yet. I appreciate what he’s done for the resurgence of this organization and fan base, but right now he’s Marty Schottenheimer 2.0. I like the guy a lot, I like what they started here, but I’m tired of always being let down in January. 

Edited December 4 by PauleeeWalnuts

[Joe Mama]

Would you really like to get back on the merry-go-round of Rex, Jauron, Mularkey, Doug Moron, etc,? I kinda liked Chan Gailey, but McD is much better. If McD were fired, he would be at the top of the list for every HC opening.

 

[Mikie2times]

50 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

John Rauch, Harvey Johnson, Jim Ringo, Kay Stephenson, Hank Bullough, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron, Perry Fewell, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan, Anthony Lynn or their ghosts all say "Hi".

 

 

 

I bet naming the QB's looks worse

[Dr. K]

I suspect this is a thread mostly useful to those in group 4 who can vent and tell us they have not changed their opinion. 

[Mikie2times]

34 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I am going to disagree with you pretty strongly on this point, the cupboard is quite bare when it comes to finding coaching talent. If it were easy and quality candidates were hanging off trees, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. 

 

There have been 55 head coach changes (bolded) dating back to 2017 when McDermott was hired. By my count, only 128 unique individuals have interviewed for those roles. How many names on this list inspire confidence? 
 

Sean McDermott

Harold Goodwin 

Frank Reich*

Kris Richard

Vance Joseph

Anthony Lynn

Kyle Shanahan

Dave Toub

Doug Marrone

Tom Coughlin

Chip Kelly

Mike Smith

Josh McDaniels

Sean McVay

Teryl Austin

John Fassel

Matt Patricia

Sean Payton

Steve Wilks

Mike Vrabel

Tom Cable

 

Keith Armstrong

John DeFilippo

James Bettcher

Brian Flores

Jim Schwartz

Pat Shurmur 

Mike Munchak

Matt Nagy

George Edwards

Vic Fangio

Jim Bob Cooter

Winston Moss

Leslie Frazier

Dan Campbell

Matt Rhule

Steve Spagnuolo

Eric Studesville 

Jon Gruden

Bobby Johnson

Tee Martin

Matt LaFleur 

 

Kliff Kingsbury

Jim Caldwell

Adam Gase 

Zac Taylor

Eric Bieniemy

Mike McCarthy

Hue Jackson

Bill Lazor

Todd Monken

Darren Simmons

Shane Waldron

Freddie Kitchens

Matt Eberflus
Nick Sirianni

Kevin Stefanski

Gregg Williams 

Pete Carmichael

Pat Fitzgerald

Chuck Pagano

Joe Philbin

Dennis Allen 

Dowell Loggains

Darren Rizzi

Matt Campbell 
Bruce Arians 

 

Perry Fewell

Brian Daboll

Mike McDaniel

Urban Meyer 

Greg Roman

Robert Saleh

Marvin Lewis 

Joe Judge

Jason Garrett

Don Martindale

Ron Rivera

 

Todd Bowles

Joe Brady

Nathaniel Hackett

Raheem Morris

Arthur Smith

Darrell Bevell

David Culley

Josh McCown

Brandon Staley 

Ryan Day

Aaron Glenn 

Patrick Graham

Mike Kafka

Jerod Mayo

Lincoln Riley

Duce Staley

 

Byron Leftwich

Doug Pederson

Dan Quinn

Brian Callahan

Jonathan Gannon

Luke Getsy

Kellen Moore

Kevin O’Connell

Joe Lombardi

Lovie Smith 

Hines Ward

Rich Bisaccia

Bill O’Brien

Jim Harbaugh

DeMeco Ryans

Thomas Brown

Lou Anarumo

 

Ejiro Evero

Ken Dorsey 
Ben Johnson

Shane Steichen

Jerry Rosburg 

David Shaw 

Jeff Saturday 

Bubba Ventrone

 

Brian Johnson 

Mike Macdonald

Antonio Pierce

Bobby Slowik

Anthony Weaver

Dave Canales

Frank Smith

Chris Tabor 

Giff Smith

 

By my count, there are 12 Head Coaches there that inspire some level of confidence:

 

Sean McDermott 

Sean McVay

Kyle Shannahan

Sean Payton

Mike Vrabel (Unemployed)

Dan Campbell

Matt LaFleur

Nick Sirianni

Bruce Arians (Retired)

Kevin O’Connell

Jim Harbaugh

DeMeco Ryans

 

That’s 22% of all hires dating back to 2017 and less than 10% of all interview candidates. 

I meant our talent level. How many of those guys could get as far as we have with Josh Allen at QB? Probably a lot. It's not like we have this incredibly high ceiling to aspire to reach unless your ceiling is built on division titles and consistency. 

 

I feel like our success is more based on Allen than McD but as I said that is a point that could be debated forever and I really don't want to take it down that path. 

2 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I suspect this is a thread mostly useful to those in group 4 who can vent and tell us they have not changed their opinion. 

Well, we have seven other ones available if this one isn't your thing

[eball]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't know how old folks typically are here, but I'm old enough to have followed the Bills through most of the team's existence. This regime is as good if not better than we've ever had. You can cling to your negatives if you want. We are in the Golden Age of Bills football. Appreciate it. It's not going to be this way forever. Look at New England.

Surprisingly, some of McD’s and Beane’s most vocal critics on this board are guys who are old enough to know better. 
 

I can’t for the life of me understand how true Bills fans can’t sit back and enjoy this ride. Doing so doesn’t mean you think everything they do is perfect; it’s just enjoying life and appreciating things over which you have no control but bring you joy. 
 

Go Bills!!!

 

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

What a pointless and silly OP, one that will be for the haters, to give them another forum to spout their irrational nonsense.

 

Like I have said again and again, when the Bills win the  Super Bowl, anyone who has been on this site for long enough knows perfectly well that the haters, while they may lie low for a short while, confused and furious, very soon they will begin the attacks again.

 

It is inevitable. 

 

We should have a secret contest to see who can best predict some of their post Super Bowl win bizarre attacks.

 

And at the risk of making them foam at the mouth, I say we may find out very shortly how they react to the Bills' ultimate success.

 

 

I'm with you. Everybody on here should be thankful for everything Sean has given us. Any disagreement is a sign of irrational nonsense and most likely an unholy upbringing.    

14 minutes ago, eball said:

Surprisingly, some of McD’s and Beane’s most vocal critics on this board are guys who are old enough to know better. 
 

I can’t for the life of me understand how true Bills fans can’t sit back and enjoy this ride. Doing so doesn’t mean you think everything they do is perfect; it’s just enjoying life and appreciating things over which you have no control but bring you joy. 
 

Go Bills!!!

 

You think we aren't enjoying it? 

[Beast]

No, it hasn’t changed. I still feel he’s a good coach that has yet to beat a team on the same level as his team in the playoffs. 

[JGMcD2]

47 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I meant our talent level. How many of those guys could get as far as we have with Josh Allen at QB? Probably a lot. It's not like we have this incredibly high ceiling to aspire to reach unless your ceiling is built on division titles and consistency. 

 

I feel like our success is more based on Allen than McD but as I said that is a point that could be debated forever and I really don't want to take it down that path. 

Sean Payton had 1 instance in 16 seasons in New Orleans with a future HOF QB where he won more than 1 playoff game in a given season. 
 

Matt LaFleur had a future HOF QB in GB and hasn’t won more than 1 playoff game in a given season. 
 

Kevin O’Connell lost to Daniel Jones in the Wild Card round and has never won a playoff game. 
 

Nick Sirianni has lost in the Wild Card round twice in 3 playoff appearances. 
 

Mike Vrabel who was fired by Tennessee. 

 

Jim Harbaugh… he’s not going to last. He doesn’t like the pressure and health won’t hold up. 

Ryans probably shouldn’t even be in that category - he has plenty to prove. 
 

So yeah, they guys with less obvious warts are…

 

Kyle Shanahan who has never beat Andy Reid and the Chiefs, but has made it work with limited QBs. I’d take him. 
 

Sean McVay who has had a ton of success, after he upgraded from Goff to a future HOF QB. Otherwise, it’s been a pretty mixed bag. 

 

Dan Campbell who I love and would probably be the other guy I’d take over McDermott on that list. 

Thanks for making me narrow down the group and help further my point.
 

3/55 hires so about 6% of the hires I’d take over McDermott and about 2% of the candidate pool over the past 7 seasons. 
 

I should I also probably point out that only 1 of those non-McDermott coaches (Vrabel) was in the AFC competing with Belichick and Reid. Who ended Vrabel’s improbably playoff run in 2019? Oh yeah, Mahomes and Reid. 
 

Payton and Harbaugh are there now, so we’ll see what happens in the AFC West moving forward.

 

Our ceiling is plenty high, arguably higher than any non Reid/Mahomes combo in the league, but that is the point fans get wrong. It’s about the floor in any given year - you need to get to the dance. Once you’re there it’s somewhat unpredictable. By firing McDermott you’re advocating for what would likely be a Doug Pederson, Zac Taylor, Doug Marrone, Mike Vrabel type hot streak in the playoffs that propels you close to a championship. The problem is those guys are extremely volatile (low floor) and you have an even greater chance of missing the dance all together. 
 

Has nobody paid attention to what the Chiefs have done/been doing the past 3 seasons? Floor is high, they get to the dance and grind it out. 

Edited December 4 by JGMcD2

[GunnerBill]

I wasn't in any of those categories. I was in darn fine football coach who hasn't got us over the hump in the playoffs mainly because he hasn't beaten Mahomes and Reid. And he is far from the only one. 

 

13 seconds is a legit stick to beat him with and that is just what it is. But I have never been a "he needs to change to get it done" or "he can't get it done in the playoffs" or any of those things. 

 

I'd go as far as saying he is criminally underrated by most Bills fans. 

 

44 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I suspect this is a thread mostly useful to those in group 4 who can vent and tell us they have not changed their opinion. 

 

It is totally that.

 

EDIT: I have also set out the two scenarios in which my mind would be changed to "we need to move on" and they are:

 

1. We lose playoff games to clearly less talented teams. Losing to the Chiefs and a really good Bengals team doesn't qualify. If we start getting upset in the wildcard or even this year if we were beaten in the playoffs by a Houston for example I'd think that falls more to coaching.

 

2. We miss the playoffs in a season where Josh Allen is healthy. One game knockout football is way more susceptible to luck than most admit. Especially between similarly talented teams. But over 17 games with an elite Quarterback it takes more than bad luck to miss the post season. Getting into the tournament is the absolute minimum expectation.

Edited December 4 by GunnerBill

[Since1981]

He has proven by facts/wins/AFCE to be top 12. Which I will take with the flaw that he is NOT a top 4 (AFCC). With maturity and experience his QB/OC can get them to SB.