McD: Has your view changed?

[SinceThe70s]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I have always thought McD was in the top 10ish when it came to current NFL coaches.

 

Thats not different today. 
 

I have also had questions whether he and Beane were the right guys to get us past Reid and Mahomes. 

 

That’s also not different today. 
 

If you said, the Bills need a coach to win a random game, who are you taking, imo, McD is high on that list.

 

If you said, the Bills need a GM/HC combo to execute a strategic vision over 4 years culminating in the SB victory, I feel less strongly about their position on that less.

 

If they win one, great. Rooting for all the success in the world. But I have doubts.

 

Interesting perspective. Are there any teams currently that you feel strongly have the GM/HC that are capable?

 

 

[klos63]

When we ran the table to win the division last season and how the team looks this year,  I'm convinced more than ever that he's a top 5 coach in the league and we would suffer with a coaching change.

If we were remotely healthy last season in the playoffs,  I think we win it all. 

We haven't had a healthy Miller in the playoffs yet,  he was a big key to having us win it all.  

This team is so well run,  it's amazing to me. Watching coaching meltdowns this season further shows how valuable he is to the team. 

All the key personnel changes this season and we might be better than ever. 

 

[JGMcD2]

It's just really hard to follow along with this. McDermott isn't Andy Reid or Bill Belichick, so let's fire him? The guys who are #3 and #4 all time in wins in NFL history. 

 

There have been 7 Super Bowls since McDermott became the head coach of the Buffalo Bills, Reid and Belichick have represented the AFC in 6/7 and have won 4/7. The likelihood that we find the next Reid or Belichick is so small.

 

If we're lucky we end up with Zac Taylor or Doug Pederson... someone who catches lightning in a bottle, but hopefully we don't end up with the version of a Taylor/Pederson type who severely under performs in the regular season and misses a chance at the dance all together - you know, like the version of them that shows up more often than not. 

 

 

AFC

 

Andy Reid (4 appearances, 3 wins)

Bill Belichick (2 appearances, 1 win)

Zac Taylor (1 appearance, 0 wins)

 

 

NFC

 

Sean McVay (2 appearances, 1 win)

Doug Pederson (1 appearance, 1 win)

Bruce Arians (1 appearance, 1 win)

Kyle Shanahan (2 appearances, 0 wins)

Nick Sirianni (1 appearance, 0 wins)

 

McDermott has been impeded directly by Belichick and Reid - he had to play in the same division as Belichick and Reid's Chiefs have eliminated the Bills 3 out of the last 4 seasons. It's going to take some breaks to get there and "win one Championship" when you're going against arguably the greatest ever each season. 

 

Out of the remainder of those Conference Champion caliber coaches, who would people most want? McVay and Shannahan? I would be thrilled to have someone like McVay or Shanahan, as I view them as the next closest tier down from Belichick and Reid over the last decade. The problem is they haven't been very good at taking down Belichick and (more importantly) Reid either.

 

McVay vs Belichick and Reid (2-2)

 

11/19/2018 Rams beat Chiefs 54-51

2/3/2019 Patriots beat Rams 13-3 (Super Bowl)

12/10/2020 Rams beat Patriots 24-3

11/27/2022 Chiefs beats Rams 26-10

 

Shanahan vs Belichick and Reid (1-5)

 

9/23/2018 Chiefs beat 49ers 38-27

2/2/2020 Chiefs beat 49ers 31-20 (Super Bowl)

10/25/2020 49ers beat Patriots 33-6

10/23/2022 Chiefs beat 49ers 44-23

2/11/2024 Chiefs beat 49ers 25-22 (Super Bowl)

10/20/2024 Chiefs beat 49ers 28-18

 

They're 3-7 combined and 0-3 in the playoffs. 

 

For comparison sake...

 

McDermott vs Belichick and Reid (12-12)

 

7-8 vs Belichick (1-0 in the playoffs)

5-4 vs Reid (0-3 in the playoffs)

 

12-12 and 1-3 in the playoffs. 

 

There are FAR MORE guys like Zac Taylor and Doug Pederson than there are Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. Then there are FAR MORE guys who are worse than Zac Taylor and Doug Pederson. I feel like I'm being pretty objective here when I say that Sean McDermott is a better coach than Zac Taylor or Doug Pederson, and seeing that head coach hiring is an imperfect science, tells me it's more likely we get a Zac Taylor/Doug Pederson type... and maybe even worse.
 

BONUS:
 

As I stated above, I think McVay and Shanahan are in that next tier behind Belichick and Reid this decade. I also believe that McDermott is in that same tier, as he has played in the much more challenging conference. 

 

McDermott is currently 4-0 when matched up against McVay and Shanahan and he gets a crack at McVay again this weekend. 

[philholbroo]

reminder to come back and answer this on feb 10th

[Matt_In_NH]

They win the SB or the pitchforks come out.  

[Mango]

My views have been that Terry is an historically bad NHL owner and showed similar behaviors/patterns in Orchard Park before hiring McBeane.

 

Because of that I am forever in the “keep McBeane until they decide to hang it up camp.” I don’t want Terry to have to make any more NFL decisions.
 

If that means 10-7 from Josh Allen retirement until I die then so be it. 

EDIT: To add on, anybody else notice Terry’s with the depth chart and play call sheets with a pen on SNF? The reason the Bills are successful and the Sabres aren’t is because the GM/HC have a prior working relationship. Imagine both those positions being independently hired and both equally rolling up to Terry. That’s the Buffalo Sabres and that’s how bad the Buffalo Bills can be. 

Edited December 4 by Mango

[FireChans]

26 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Interesting perspective. Are there any teams currently that you feel strongly have the GM/HC that are capable?

 

 

GM/HC? 

Maybe Shanny/Lynch. Obviously Reid/Veach. 
 

I would go as far as say Howie/Sirianni, even though I really don’t like Sirianni, but I like Howie a lot. 

[BeastMaster]

He's a defensive coach, and it's his D that has failed Josh year after year in the playoffs.

 

That is what he must do to prove something to me

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

I have not wavered in my appreciation for both Coach McDermott and GM Beane. We are blessed to be able to enjoy this era of Bills and I don't respect the writings of those who want to tear our coach's great work down. 

This is the best HC and GM ever in Buffalo, and it's only a matter of time before we see an NFL Championship Lombardi trophy in Buffalo!

 

 

PS Take a long hard look at the 49ers this season to see what injuries can do to a Super Bowl team as last season they were in the big dance.

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

It's just really hard to follow along with this. McDermott isn't Andy Reid or Bill Belichick, so let's fire him? The guys who are #3 and #4 all time in wins in NFL history. 

 

There have been 7 Super Bowls since McDermott became the head coach of the Buffalo Bills, Reid and Belichick have represented the AFC in 6/7 and have won 4/7. The likelihood that we find the next Reid or Belichick is so small.

 

If we're lucky we end up with Zac Taylor or Doug Pederson... someone who catches lightning in a bottle, but hopefully we don't end up with the version of a Taylor/Pederson type who severely under performs in the regular season and misses a chance at the dance all together - you know, like the version of them that shows up more often than not. 

 

 

AFC

 

Andy Reid (4 appearances, 3 wins)

Bill Belichick (2 appearances, 1 win)

Zac Taylor (1 appearance, 0 wins)

 

 

NFC

 

Sean McVay (2 appearances, 1 win)

Doug Pederson (1 appearance, 1 win)

Bruce Arians (1 appearance, 1 win)

Kyle Shanahan (2 appearances, 0 wins)

Nick Sirianni (1 appearance, 0 wins)

 

McDermott has been impeded directly by Belichick and Reid - he had to play in the same division as Belichick and Reid's Chiefs have eliminated the Bills 3 out of the last 4 seasons. It's going to take some breaks to get there and "win one Championship" when you're going against arguably the greatest ever each season. 

 

Out of the remainder of those Conference Champion caliber coaches, who would people most want? McVay and Shannahan? I would be thrilled to have someone like McVay or Shanahan, as I view them as the next closest tier down from Belichick and Reid over the last decade. The problem is they haven't been very good at taking down Belichick and (more importantly) Reid either.

 

McVay vs Belichick and Reid (2-2)

 

11/19/2018 Rams beat Chiefs 54-51

2/3/2019 Patriots beat Rams 13-3 (Super Bowl)

12/10/2020 Rams beat Patriots 24-3

11/27/2022 Chiefs beats Rams 26-10

 

Shanahan vs Belichick and Reid (1-5)

 

9/23/2018 Chiefs beat 49ers 38-27

2/2/2020 Chiefs beat 49ers 31-20 (Super Bowl)

10/25/2020 49ers beat Patriots 33-6

10/23/2022 Chiefs beat 49ers 44-23

2/11/2024 Chiefs beat 49ers 25-22 (Super Bowl)

10/20/2024 Chiefs beat 49ers 28-18

 

They're 3-7 combined and 0-3 in the playoffs. 

 

For comparison sake...

 

McDermott vs Belichick and Reid (12-12)

 

7-8 vs Belichick (1-0 in the playoffs)

5-4 vs Reid (0-3 in the playoffs)

 

12-12 and 1-3 in the playoffs. 

 

There are FAR MORE guys like Zac Taylor and Doug Pederson than there are Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. Then there are FAR MORE guys who are worse than Zac Taylor and Doug Pederson. I feel like I'm being pretty objective here when I say that Sean McDermott is a better coach than Zac Taylor or Doug Pederson, and seeing that head coach hiring is an imperfect science, tells me it's more likely we get a Zac Taylor/Doug Pederson type... and maybe even worse.
 

BONUS:
 

As I stated above, I think McVay and Shanahan are in that next tier behind Belichick and Reid this decade. I also believe that McDermott is in that same tier, as he has played in the much more challenging conference. 

 

McDermott is currently 4-0 when matched up against McVay and Shanahan and he gets a crack at McVay again this weekend. 

The way you talk it's almost as if Brady wasn't behind Belichick or Mahomes behind Reid. Is it a coincidence that that the best coaches of all time just happened to align with two of the best QB's of all time? We sort of have one of those guys as well right? How difficult was it to partner Tom with a new coach and grab a Super Bowl? Not very it would seem. Reids playoff record with Mahomes is 15-3, before Mahomes, 11-13. 

 

I'm not saying your post doesn't have a factual basis. But so much is not fully understood between the relationship of players, systems, and coaches, specifically at QB. Nobody on this forum is going to clear that up either. QB records the last 3 years with a 65 or better QBR (excluding Allen) are 119-43 73.5% in the regular season. We know great QB's are a massive advantage and Josh is probably a tick or two even higher than massive and great. Sean does an amazing job keeping this team grounded. Playing fundamental football. But I'm not going to pretend to know what that looks like without him. The cubbard isn't exactly bare and to think the ceiling is drastically lower than the divisional round just isn't accurate in my opinion. 

 

The purpose of the post was to gauge public opinion more than anything. It seems it's fairly lined up with where it has been. Not much has changed. Sean has done a great job this year and he will be the coach of the Bills for a very long time regardless. But we need to make some progress in the playoffs or this stuff will keep following him. 

[Preds]

He needs to prove himself in the playoffs to me.  The high pressure moments when the biggest decisions need to be made is where he has repeatedly failed time and time again.  He needs to prove he can succeed when things matter most for me to forgive and forget.  Till then, I stand by the fact that he never should have survived 13 seconds.  Absolutely a fireable moment.

I hope he proves me wrong and brings home a Super Bowl championship, I really do.

Edited December 4 by Preds

[Buffalo Boy]

This is an easy No and No.

   Recency Bias on display, which I fully admit I’m prone to falling for.

   It’s like having a girlfriend/boyfriend when you are young, that you start out crazy in love with but the you grow. You see the things that aren’t right but you still have those heart strings tugging at you.

   Waking up to Snow Angels ( went to bed with 7 minutes left) was enjoyable as heck. Seeing the locker room speech and him quoting Marv literally had me on the verge of tears.

    I WANT this to be the year!!!! It looks like it is shaping up amazingly. BUT, I’ve seen/felt/billieved/wanted this before. 
    He has to win a Lombardi for me to switch. Because, as enjoyable as all these regular season wins are, it doesn’t mean a hill of beans if we don’t win a SB with Josh as our QB. Quite the opposite, it’s as damning an indictment as Shula not winning one with Marino. 
   

  

[JimmyNoodles]

I like McD and think he is overall an excellent coach.  On the negative side, he makes mistakes at critical times that has cost the team in big games.  I personally hate the defense we run.  Because the defense won’t change as long as he is here, I would still like a change.  Of course, nothing would make me happier than to win it all this year and then he can stay forever and I’ll worship at the shrine that will be constructed in his honor!

[GoBills808]

Not in the slightest

[zow2]

There are too many players on the current team and former Bills players that talk about the amazing job McD has done to create a winning culture.  and several mention how it’s different here. So no matter what anyone thinks about the lack of hardware, the man has done a great job.

[RiotAct]

26 minutes ago, Mango said:

EDIT: To add on, anybody else notice Terry’s with the depth chart and play call sheets with a pen on SNF? 

oh Jesus… what?  😂

[Buffalo716]

29 minutes ago, Mango said:

My views have been that Terry is an historically bad NHL owner and showed similar behaviors/patterns in Orchard Park before hiring McBeane.

 

Because of that I am forever in the “keep McBeane until they decide to hang it up camp.” I don’t want Terry to have to make any more NFL decisions.
 

If that means 10-7 from Josh Allen retirement until I die then so be it. 

EDIT: To add on, anybody else notice Terry’s with the depth chart and play call sheets with a pen on SNF? The reason the Bills are successful and the Sabres aren’t is because the GM/HC have a prior working relationship. Imagine both those positions being independently hired and both equally rolling up to Terry. That’s the Buffalo Sabres and that’s how bad the Buffalo Bills can be. 

The sabers are bad.. because outside of this year.. they've had terrible goal tending for years 

 

They draft 19 year old kids bring them right up to the NHL.. and then let them leave when they're 25 and they go off and be studs for other teams like Reinhardt 

 

And we're in what would be considered the SEC of hockey 

 

The bills are good because we have a steady head coach and GM which the sabres don't have ... Josh Allen 

 

And home field advantage means a lot more in football than it does in hockey 

 

We're not perennially good without Josh Allen despite having a good roster 

 

Josh made us contenders year in and year out

 

.

 

 

Edited December 4 by Buffalo716

[ghostwriter]

Until McD gets that first Super Bowl win, no, my mind has not changed. He’ll have that monkey on his back. If he does win a Super Bowl however, he will be untouchable.

[Mango]

Just now, RiotAct said:

oh Jesus… what?  😂

Yeah, they showed him in his suite with what was clearly the depth chart and a bunch of other papers (that I assume were play calls) with a pen taking notes while watching the game. 
 

He’s not Jerry Jones. I think he means well. But he’s not a great organizational leader.

[SinceThe70s]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

GM/HC? 

Maybe Shanny/Lynch. Obviously Reid/Veach. 
 

I would go as far as say Howie/Sirianni, even though I really don’t like Sirianni, but I like Howie a lot. 

 

Thanks. I don't wanna hijack the thread, but a few quick thoughts

 

Each combo you picked have at least been to a SB (I also thought of McVay/Snead who went all-in and won it all).

 

A more interesting question might have been what's the realistic GM/HC combo you would want going forward - and would it include either McD or Beane? Topic for another thread.

 

For the record I'm a fence-sitter when it comes to McD. I'm unconvinced we're incapable of winning it all with him - but I can't dismiss the comparisons to Schottenheimer