What’s it gonna take to improve /prioritize our run defense?

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

agree 100% with our offense they really are ok with score touchdowns give up field goals... to this point save 1 game where Baltimore just ran on us like we werent there its worked.  I think that once you get inside the 20 the field compresses and you no longer have to worry about getting beat deep... 

Exactly. And with Baltimore, you hate to see it but you're talking about the absolute unicorn of RBs back there. Only way to keep him contained is all 11 players on defense have to be perfect on every snap. That's a lot to ask. Especially when keeping an eye on Lamar and the TEs and Flowers. No shame in getting run over by a likely top 5-10 all time back when all is said and done with his career.

[SoonerBillsFan]

33 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

 

I disagree.  I'd say the #1 problem against the ravens was Williams, Spector, and lewis starting instead of milano, bernard, and johnson.  Rapp also played 16 snaps and was replaced by bishop.  

 

I disagree with your disagreement lol.  It starts with DL.  They have to plug the run and keep guys like Henry getting to our LB's at full speed.

24 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

And if we don't?

Then I will exercise my constitutional right to whine about it.😁

[JaCrispy]

Replace Ed Oliver

[agilen]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Score more points in the first half so teams need to abandon the run

This is the answer. Make them game plan to run, then the OC panics after we are up by 2 scores. This works when your offense puts up 30+ per game.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, co_springs_billsfan said:

Can you link it?  I'd be interested to read

this was the comment that stood out to me:

 

"I probably could call some more runs, when it was all said and done," Reid said. "When we had opportunities, we did a pretty nice job with it, with the exception of the short-yardage."

[ganesh]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Unfortunately the actual answer is get a top 1-tech DT that has a good pass rushing skillset. Those guys are difficult to come by. 

annd you have to draft them at the top of the 1st round

[Buffalo Junction]

Just now, ganesh said:

annd you have to draft them at the top of the 1st round

Or take a shot on character or injury concerns. 

[Starr Almighty]

Adams and Fat Pat get"er done

[ganesh]

4 minutes ago, agilen said:

This is the answer. Make them game plan to run, then the OC panics after we are up by 2 scores. This works when your offense puts up 30+ per game.

A ferocious pass rush and an offense that can consistently put up 30 points is what is required to win in the playoffs and the Super Bowl.   Go Bills !!!

[transplantbillsfan]

A choice to prioritize it. We don't.

 

This has been covered a lot.

 

Joe Marino had Bruce Nolan on his podcast last week and the analogy Nolan used was rock, paper, scissors.

 

Every play is a game of rock, paper, scissors between offense and defense. You can't win all the time. The trick is making sure each is as strong as possible so that when they throw rock your scissors stands a chance.

 

That's kinda why CBs who can tackle in our scheme are so important and Taron might be the 2nd most important player on our team. And noticed that although Douglas isn't getting the turnovers he's become a monster in the run game.

 

On a play to play basis the Bills are actually very good at stopping the run when compared with the rest of the league. We're just one of the worst in the league at giving up explosive runs.

 

It's a choice by the coaching staff. Taron actually said that in his post-game PC against the Phins.

[SoMAn]

32 minutes ago, mannc said:

The Bills have made a conscious decision NOT to draft these kind of DTs, opting for Ed Oliver over, say, Dexter Lawrence and Jeffrey Simmons…I’m guessing they would also have passed on T’Vondre Sweat, that huge DT from Texas, if he had been available at 60 last year…

Ed flashes at times, but he’s frequently manhandled by bigger, stronger O-linemen. The big-bodied DT often occupies 2 blockers, which can free up other defenders, increase the impact of the guy on the edge or blitzing safeties/LBs. 

The Bills are weak right in the middle. Baltimore exposed that weakness. The teams the Bills should fear most are those with power RBs like Derrick Henry. 
 

[Mat68]

14 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Exactly. And with Baltimore, you hate to see it but you're talking about the absolute unicorn of RBs back there. Only way to keep him contained is all 11 players on defense have to be perfect on every snap. That's a lot to ask. Especially when keeping an eye on Lamar and the TEs and Flowers. No shame in getting run over by a likely top 5-10 all time back when all is said and done with his career.

No Benard, Johnson and Milano.  Not having any part of the starting second level of the defense greatly impacted their ability to slow down Henry. 

[PoundingDog]

It is not a problem until it is a problem. But let's face it, it is THE place where an offensive guru like Reid will look to explore. And I'll add it is NOT just defending the run, it is also defending passing games derived from the run concept like the Bills were able to do this year with great success.

 

It's OK to say I don't mind you run on us. It's another you give up 10+ yard run on regular basis. And this year, people noticed we have done that -- 10+ yards and the passes of 10+ yard off the run concept given up. To the opposing offense, it is the same thing like we have been saying of our offense prior to this year, when you can't run with some success, everything looks hard, even for great QBs like Mahomes and Allen; they have to make exceptional plays one after another. One game, sure. Two games in a row, OK (maybe). Three games in a row, less likely, especially in playoffs with increasingly stronger opponent.

 

I don't believe McDermott is going to change his schemes. Finding a stud on D line or a MLB (above Bernard level) is critical and so far, we have not done that. They invested heavily on DE but really not much in DT. Oliver and Carter are the only draft picks in Beane and McDermott era and I found that puzzling. Maybe the requirement for DT in this defense is so high that they don't believe any of the later round picks in the past few years could develop into that guy in their eyes so they opted to sign known veterans. I hope the Carter pick starts the change of that philosophy.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

No Benard, Johnson and Milano.  Not having any part of the starting second level of the defense greatly impacted their ability to slow down Henry. 

 

And their blocking scheme was entirely designed to do that. They regularly let a Bills defensive lineman penetrate for the benefit of having a bigger bodies lineman downhill on pour backup second level guys. 

 

And then they got Babich to panic and go "big" with a 4-3 and Morrow in the game. At which point they Justice Hill'd us to death for two drives to go up 21-3. That was the critical passage in the game IMO. The Bills should have stayed patient in their nickel base. 

[appoo]

I can almost guarantee you beane isnt going to spend a first round pick on a 1T, when EDGE is a much much bigger need.  
 

And depending on how FA goes WR and CB are behind Edge and ahead of 1T

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

In the regular season and that's the issue.  How do we take the next step if good teams can run the ball down our throats in the playoffs and limit our possessions.  

Show me a game where we lost cause of the run?  What I see as common in our PO losses is inability to stop the pass (Rating by year: '23 Mahomes 131; '22 Burrow 101, '21 Mahomes 123, '20 Mahomes 127).  The best evidence that our run defense is an issue in the playoffs is '22 when Burrow ONLY had a rating of 101.  Meanwhile there are quite a few games you wouldve expected teams to lean on the run to beat us ('23 Steelers w/ back up QB, '22 Miami w/ back up QB, '21 Pats w/ Mac and after hurricane bowl showing were soft, '20 Balt in elements w/ LJ).  If our run defense were truely a problem why did we win all these games while giving up <20 points (exception being '22 Miami where Josh went YOLO with TOs).  

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

We are going to beat the Lions…

 

I don't share your optimism there.  I think the Detroit game is the "medicine" game before the playoffs where they are humbled and realize they need to take things up a notch for the stretch run.  The Bills aren't really built to stop an offense like that one but they'll need to find some solutions before they face Baltimore and KC (with Pacheco and Humphries this time) in January.

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And their blocking scheme was entirely designed to do that. They regularly let a Bills defensive lineman penetrate for the benefit of having a bigger bodies lineman downhill on pour backup second level guys. 

 

And then they got Babich to panic and go "big" with a 4-3 and Morrow in the game. At which point they Justice Hill'd us to death for two drives to go up 21-3. That was the critical passage in the game IMO. The Bills should have stayed patient in their nickel base. 

Lewis and Ingram were getting bodied.  You have to try and stop it at that point.  Hard to play Nickel with back ups at nickel, both linebakers and safety vs Baltimore. 

[boyst]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And their blocking scheme was entirely designed to do that. They regularly let a Bills defensive lineman penetrate for the benefit of having a bigger bodies lineman downhill on pour backup second level guys. 

 

And then they got Babich to panic and go "big" with a 4-3 and Morrow in the game. At which point they Justice Hill'd us to death for two drives to go up 21-3. That was the critical passage in the game IMO. The Bills should have stayed patient in their nickel base. 

We walked in to a trap by penetration already hobbling with injury and already wounded from the first play.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Mat68 said:

Lewis and Ingram were getting bodied.  You have to try and stop it at that point.  Hard to play Nickel with back ups at nickel, both linebakers and safety vs Baltimore. 

 

I don't think you do if the best option you have is Nicholas Morrow who is utterly terrible. You were still taking off better players to bring on a worse one. 

Just now, boyst said:

We walked in to a trap by penetration already hobbling with injury and already wounded from the first play.

 

That is EXACTLY what we did. Monken set the trap and Babich walked right into it.