What’s it gonna take to improve /prioritize our run defense?

[dayman]

Recall, in addition to the defensive scheme comments, that our offense scores points. Its really not an option for other teams to just pound it out all game unless they hold us on offense which nobody does.

 

 The one thing is if the whole song doesn’t click and we do pull a physical team on offense that can run and a defense that holds us the loss looks ugly—best example being the whipping Cincinnati gave us in the playoffs. More recently Baltimore.

 

I would rather see KC than Baltimore (obviously), but even Pittsburg is dubious in the playoffs.

Edited December 7 by dayman

[Kirby Jackson]

This year has been amazing!! There are very few areas to nitpick. Seeing number 13 on this list this morning was a little annoying:

 

 

[Einstein]

On 12/3/2024 at 9:13 AM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

A little off topic, but the comments that Andy Reid made after the bills game makes me think he is going to basically run the ball 40 times against us if we play them again.

 

Wouldnt surprise me at all. And im surprised more teams don’t do that.

 

Its how Belichick beat us with Mac freaking Jones.

[WideNine]

On 12/6/2024 at 8:02 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

It's by design, and I'm not even mad about because it works and we keep winning.

 

The 9ers ran all over us... and scored 3 points off it. We let teams run all the time, and we're 10-2 and have a +131 point differential!

 

We're good.

 

Tough to use the niners game as a measuring stick.

 

A lot of factors in that win including that generally we were able to tighten up in the red zone and force kicks.

 

Also that forced fumble at the goal line was huge in flipping the script. The niners also looked cold and miserable out there trying to execute in the elements which they did not do very well (I felt like they were ready to head for the bus pretty early on in the contest).

 

They remind me of the Bills when we had too much salary locked up in players who can't play. They need to jettison load up on draft capital and rebuild.

 

In better conditions (dome) against teams that are good at running the ball and better in the red zone, letting them waltz down the field and still score will be an issue.

I am not as worried giving up rushing yards either (if we are just looking at numbers) as long as we can shut teams down enough in the red zone.

 

If we can limit teams that can run the ball to field goals, I trust our offense to get traction and score and our defense to force turnovers - they have been great at that all year and I like our chances when we get any team chasing our score.

 

Having all our starters stay healthy is huge too with the amount of play action and motion good teams are using...defenses need that veteran savvy to not get fooled and still be able to quickly click and close after diagnosing plays.

 

Been tough playing with so many backups the past few seasons down the stretch. Appreciate their effort, just an experience thing.

 

I like the pipeline of defensive talent this team is developing. Still need DTs that can anchor and get some push to be stout against the run.

 

DQ is getting long in the tooth and if this team wants to live with 4-man fronts and light boxes (considering the numbers advantage with good teams that use a lot of heavier personnel packages) McD needs to invest in a young slobberknocker or two for that front 4 rotation.

 

[In Summary]

The Bills continue to construct their defense to be able to handle the top qb's and passing games. They like their 3-techs to be penetrators. 1-tech is not a high priority. Just my opinion. 

[WideNine]

53 minutes ago, In Summary said:

The Bills continue to construct their defense to be able to handle the top qb's and passing games. They like their 3-techs to be penetrators. 1-tech is not a high priority. Just my opinion. 

 

When you look at pure yp/g teams that rush the ball well seem most likely to be those that make the post season. So when I consider run defense I am thinking what tweaks could lend to more post-season defensive success that has often alluded us.

 

I also feel we need to get more heat on Mahomes than we have in past playoffs...he gets way to much time to throw. Babich had a great first outing keeping him hemmed in and getting pressure on him. Pacheco will be back and he will be a factor we did not have to deal with last time.

 

That being said, KC and Buffalo don't have great yp/g numbers in either category, but have good red zone defense and good offensive balance and good records... although KC has had just a crap ton of luck in tight games they should have lost.

 

Our defense has been opportunistic and usually good in the red zone area where it needs to be to live in their world of light boxes and defending the deep strike.

 

Buffalo's red-zone defense allows touchdowns on just 50.0% of trips (eighth) and just 1.79 points per drive (also eighth).

 

 

Top passing offenses and W/L records are:

Cin 4-8

Sea 7-5

Det 12-1

Bal 8-5

Atl 6-6

TB 12-1

 

Buffalo 17th

KC 12th

 

 

Top rushing offenses:

Phi 10-2

Bal 8-5

Wa 8-5

Det 12-1

GB 9-4

Az 6-6

 

Buffalo 11th

KC 19th

 

 

Edited December 7 by WideNine

[Kelly to Allen]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This year has been amazing!! There are very few areas to nitpick. Seeing number 13 on this list this morning was a little annoying:

 

 

Isn't that account kinda just an opinion? 

 

I think Oliver and Jones were banged up early in the year. You could tell. 

 

Again they completely dominated the interior oline of KC. 

 

Take that for what you will. 

 

Oliver looked like an all pro vs KC just saying 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Wouldnt surprise me at all. And im surprised more teams don’t do that.

 

Its how Belichick beat us with Mac freaking Jones.

NE was one of the best teams in the league at running the football that year, the chiefs can’t even come close to those kind of numbers even against light boxes.  
 

i still think that’s one of the flukiest games of all time and nobody should be modeling their gameplan around that lol but that’s another discussion.  

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Wouldnt surprise me at all. And im surprised more teams don’t do that.

 

Its how Belichick beat us with Mac freaking Jones.

Dude that was in 60 mph winds LOL 

 

You can't just do that every single game it takes extreme circumstances and McDermott was still willing to let Josh try and cook

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Dude that was in 60 mph winds LOL 

That makes it even more absurd that we allowed it!

We knew the Patriots could not pas and we STILL allowed them to run all over us.
 

[Kelly to Allen]

17 hours ago, dayman said:

Recall, in addition to the defensive scheme comments, that our offense scores points. Its really not an option for other teams to just pound it out all game unless they hold us on offense which nobody does.

 

 The one thing is if the whole song doesn’t click and we do pull a physical team on offense that can run and a defense that holds us the loss looks ugly—best example being the whipping Cincinnati gave us in the playoffs. More recently Baltimore.

 

I would rather see KC than Baltimore (obviously), but even Pittsburg is dubious in the playoffs.

Would you honestly rather see KC than Baltimore??

 

That's kind of a weird opinion.

 

I have a lot more respect in a playoff matchup vs mahomes compared to Lamar 

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

That makes it even more absurd that we allowed it!

We knew the Patriots could not pas and we STILL allowed them to run all over us.
 

And then they got obliterated in the playoffs 

[Buffalo716]

50 minutes ago, Einstein said:

That makes it even more absurd that we allowed it!

We knew the Patriots could not pas and we STILL allowed them to run all over us.
 

X + y does not always equal z 

 

Just because some teams have success running occasionally versus the bills... Doesn't mean every single team will always have success running versus the bills

 

We saw them a few weeks later in the playoffs and they got 80 rushing yards for like 3.3 yards per carry

 

Damian Harris ripped off of 65 yarder in the wind game which inflated his stats.. 

 

Sean doesn't care as much about running between the twenties because we buckle down in the red zone... When the team buckles down they stop the run

 

We just tried to actually throw the ball occasionally and was sloppy on offense... What happened when we saw them a few weeks later on the playoffs and we scored on every possession? 

 

That week 15 game means nothing

 

 

Edited December 7 by Buffalo716

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Isn't that account kinda just an opinion? 

 

I think Oliver and Jones were banged up early in the year. You could tell. 

 

Again they completely dominated the interior oline of KC. 

 

Take that for what you will. 

 

Oliver looked like an all pro vs KC just saying 

It is kind of an opinion but it’s pretty annoying. Last year the Bills had Ford and he was inactive. This year, he’s playing at a Pro Bowl level. 

[Kelly to Allen]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It is kind of an opinion but it’s pretty annoying. Last year the Bills had Ford and he was inactive. This year, he’s playing at a Pro Bowl level. 

Carter is active!!!!

[WideNine]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It is kind of an opinion but it’s pretty annoying. Last year the Bills had Ford and he was inactive. This year, he’s playing at a Pro Bowl level. 

 

True, but I never thought Ford was a good fit for our spread, shotgun, pass-heavy offense back when.

 

A bit slow-footed so not the best in pass pro, or pulling which we asked our OL to do quite a bit, but a mauler on runs.

 

...and frankly until recently with Kromer I don't think we had the right OL coaching staff to recognize and develop offensive lineman.

 

I still remember when we traded Teller to the Browns only to watch him very quickly become a pro bowl guard. Just a poor ability to recognize OL talent and/or develop it.

 

I feel so much better about our OL this year and that the pipeline of talent for the next man up stepping in without too much drop from that unit.

 

They have done a great job coaching up this position group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, WideNine said:

 

True, but I never thought Ford was a good fit for our spread, shotgun, pass-heavy offense back when.

 

A bit slow-footed so not the best in pass pro, or pulling which we asked our OL to do quite a bit, but a mauler on runs.

 

...and frankly until recently with Kromer I don't think we had the right OL coaching staff to recognize and develop offensive lineman.

 

I still remember when we traded Teller to the Browns only to watch him very quickly become a pro bowl guard. Just a poor ability to recognize OL talent and/or develop it.

 

I feel so much better about our OL this year and that the pipeline of talent for the next man up stepping in without too much drop from that unit.

 

They have done a great job coaching up this position group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think he means poona Ford. 

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

True, but I never thought Ford was a good fit for our spread, shotgun, pass-heavy offense back when.

 

A bit slow-footed so not the best in pass pro, or pulling which we asked our OL to do quite a bit, but a mauler on runs.

 

...and frankly until recently with Kromer I don't think we had the right OL coaching staff to recognize and develop offensive lineman.

 

I still remember when we traded Teller to the Browns only to watch him very quickly become a pro bowl guard. Just a poor ability to recognize OL talent and/or develop it.

 

I feel so much better about our OL this year and that the pipeline of talent for the next man up stepping in without too much drop from that unit.

 

They have done a great job coaching up this position group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poona Ford

[ganesh]

20 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Fair point but red zone D is solid and they are not giving up a lot of points. I assume they tweak it a bit if a team just pounds it. But I have confidence in half time adjustments like the Colts game. Is it potentially a problem? Sure, but each team has weaknesses. The Bills haven’t lost playoff games due to run game dominance as far as I recall. 

The Bills lost to the Bengals at Orchard Park, because they couldn't stop the run.  Mixon had a 100 yard game.

[Kelly to Allen]

13 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The Bills lost to the Bengals at Orchard Park, because they couldn't stop the run.  Mixon had a 100 yard game.

 

 

We lost to the Bengals because of the emotional issues surrounding Hamlin and the off-season from hell...

 

It doesn't help if your entire dline is banged up or not playing, your cb1 is not the same, or both safeties are hurt or out along with Allen playing with a torn throwing elbow....

 

I knew we would lose vs Cincy unless we got a few turnovers.

 

If we played Cincy now we would blow them out

If we played Cincy at the beginning of 22 we would've blown them out 

Edited December 7 by Kelly to Allen

[Sierra Foothills]

On 12/3/2024 at 6:06 AM, I'm Spartacus said:

Tell McDermott we don't like his scheme.

 

Maybe we should start a petition!

 

On 12/3/2024 at 6:38 AM, mushypeaches said:

Our bad rushing defense exists only so that fans like the OP have something to complain about when we're riding a 7 game winning streak

 

No... actually that's what Damar Hamlin is for.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 6:40 AM, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’ve gotta see the lions game before I can judge how bad it is.  To me that’s a game where you want to load up against the run and trust benford to take st brown out of the game without a ton of help 

 

The Lions game will really tell the story about how much concern to place in our run D... especially because we won't play Philly in the regular season.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 7:44 AM, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I gotta be honest I would love the chiefs trying to pound the run all game in the playoffs…that’s likely gonna lead to a lot of 3rd and medium passing situations and with those OTs they have I don’t trust them to pick a lot of those up. 

 

outside of the ravens nobody is particularly great at running the football on the afc playoff side 

 

Be careful what you wish for. When they beat us in the divisional round last year the Chiefs ran 24 times for 146 yards... an average of 6.1 yards per carry. It wasn't the only reason we lost but it was one of them.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 8:53 AM, boyst said:

If that score wasn't made on the first play we would have had an entirely different game. The Bills seemingly gave up just down 1 TD. 

 

This is not accurate. The long Henry TD run was not the turning point in the game. Bills were still competitive up until midway through the 3rd until the failed trick play. In fact it really wasn't until Bass missed the FG attempt at the end of the 3rd that the Bills finally folded their tents.

 

On 12/3/2024 at 12:08 PM, Peace Frog said:

We need Ted Washington & Pat Williams 2.0 as our DTs.

  

 

"The Williams Wall!!!"

 

On 12/3/2024 at 12:19 PM, notpolian said:

It can be a problem if a team really sticks with pounding the rock.  I just re-watched most of the 49ers game and Rapp saved us multiple times with last line of defense diving tackles.  The DL interior linemen have to be better.  Lions game is the ultimate test IMO.

 

While I have concerns about our run D, that game lacked meaning as far as running or stopping the run. Neither team could stop the run in that snow storm on the slick field.

 

On 12/4/2024 at 3:49 AM, peterpan said:

When talking heads say “take what the defense gives you….”  That means run against the bills.  That’s what we give you.  I’ve been made fun of on here saying the Bills purposely have a poor run D, but that’s really the choice we have made.  And it’s proven to be a good choice.  Try keeping up with Allen and 30+ points a game without passing.

 

No. We make fun of you because of that silly outfit you insist on wearing.

 

On 12/6/2024 at 6:13 AM, Kelly to Allen said:

When we shut down the Rams and Lions run game will ppl still be skeptical?

 

Well now that's a rhetorical question isn't it. How many yards to you think the Lions will rush for?

 

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

Wouldnt surprise me at all. And im surprised more teams don’t do that.

 

Its how Belichick beat us with Mac freaking Jones.

 

I see some people here have poo poo'd your post.

 

There are games (the Pats game cited here, the Divisional Round loss to Cinci, the Divisional Round loss to the Chiefs) where our soft run defense contributed to the loss.

 

I have faith that the return to health of the defense and the addition of Babich will alleviate this problem but it would be premature to assume our run D won't be exploited by teams such as Detroit or Philly when we reach the Super Bowl.

 

I don't lose sleep at night thinking about it but the Bills run D is a legit concern.