What’s it gonna take to improve /prioritize our run defense?

[Ben]

Draft deonne walker dt Kentucky with pick 32 in April 

[MiracleAtRich1393]

I know just the thing that would solve it. Pre-pec injury DaQuan Jones 😭

[GASabresIUFan]

1 hour ago, YattaOkasan said:

Show me a game where we lost cause of the run? 

Besides this year’s Baltimore game where we were run out of the building?

[gonzo1105]

41 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Best explanation of the situation I have read.  

 

I would only add that it is a part of the Bills script to play complimentary football.  It’s harder for teams to rely on the run game when they are behind by more than one score.

I always find it interesting that NFL coaches are supposedly the cream of the crop but over the last almost now 40 years that it was the college coaches who innovated and created new ideas in the game and the NFL guys essentially started copying them 

[HappyDays]

McDermott's philosophy pretty much requires a great 1T because for better or worse he refuses to emphasize stopping the run with scheme. Unfortunately the investments we've made there over the years just haven't worked out for the most part. Star never lived up to his contract and took the covid year off. When DQ was still in his prime the run defense notably got much better for a while, but now he has clearly lost a step and the run defense is poor again. It really is that simple. I'm sure they will use a relatively high draft pick on the position this year.

[GASabresIUFan]

4 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I always find it interesting that NFL coaches are supposedly the cream of the crop but over the last almost now 40 years that it was the college coaches who innovated and created new ideas in the game and the NFL guys essentially started copying them 

More opportunity to try things in college.  There are more teams and teams with less “talent” have an incentive to try new things in order to gain an edge.  The successful innovators move up.  Take Brady for example; college OC to NFL passing coordinator to NFL OC too soon to be NFL HC.

[DJB]

27 minutes ago, Ben said:

Draft deonne walker dt Kentucky with pick 32 in April 

Yup. 
 

Over the years I’ve been asking to go get Tvondre Sweat, Jordan Davis etc

 

An impactful 1T is essential to this D since we don’t scheme to stop the run. We need someone that can do it. 
 

1T has to be every high on our priorities this offseason 

[GASabresIUFan]

As I’m sitting here eating my lunch and thinking about what McD can do to help stop the run if necessary.  Getting and staying healthy on defense will help.  Having healthy starters like Milano playing well is the first step.  Having some bigger packages would also help like playing 3 LBs on obvious running downs now that Dorian Williams has shown he can also play the pass would also help.  
 

I doubt we’ll see 8 in the box. 
 

Of course scoring early and often and forcing our opponents to play from behind is the best medicine to stop the run.  Hard to call runs when you fall quickly behind.

Edited December 3 by GASabresIUFan

[gonzo1105]

14 minutes ago, DJB said:

Yup. 
 

Over the years I’ve been asking to go get Tvondre Sweat, Jordan Davis etc

 

An impactful 1T is essential to this D since we don’t scheme to stop the run. We need someone that can do it. 
 

1T has to be every high on our priorities this offseason 

It’s another thing with this regime is they don’t draft 1T high or even really at all. They drafted Phillips at the end of round 3. They seem to like to fill this role with veterans. 
 

Could that change of course but I’d look for a free agent 1T next offseason to make Jones a backup. I know a lot of people think Jones will be cut but his cap hit is solid so if I recall. We might eat it tho as I think 2026 is the next reset per say 

Edited December 3 by gonzo1105

[PoundingDog]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

As I’m sitting here I’m thinking about what McD can do to help stop the run if necessary.  Getting and staying healthy on defense will help.  Having healthy starters like Milano playing well is the first step.  Having some bigger packages would also help like playing 3 LBs on obvious running downs now that Dorian Williams has shown he can also play the pass would also help.  
 

I doubt we’ll see 8 in the box. 
 

Of course scoring early and often and forcing our opponents to play from behind is the best medicine to stop the run.  Hard to call runs when you fall quickly behind.

My guess is no change at all scheme/personnel wise. Sure Milano, if healthy, will replace Williams. McDermott has already gave us the answer during the bye week: fundamentals. Specifically for run defense, shed and tackle better. And I agree with him at this stage. Just do the basic things better than opponents; practice that.

[Nephilim17]

It's going to take early leads. As it's been said, philosophically, we just don't choose to play 3 LBs so you've got 2 light LBs and Taron on that level. 

Limit back-breaking runs and make them grind down the field on 12 or 15 plays to score. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

What’s ironic is that both Poona ford and tim settle are having great years. Not sure why we could never get that same production out of those guys when they were here. 

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Stopping the run has to be a priority for the Bills D, and I have to believe that McD/Babich understand that. The toughest matchup for the Bills are the teams that run the ball well. Even the crappy Lolphins kept the game close with Achane as their best offensive weapon. The Ravens are probably the toughest matchup the Bills have in the league. Other teams match up better with the ravens, and hopefully we won't have to face them in the playoffs.

 

If the Bills make it to the SB, the Lions, and the Eagles are both exceptional at running the ball, with Gibbs, and Barkley. IMO, it comes down to the D-line. With the exception of Groot, they have to do a better job of controlling the run at the LOS. 

 

Milano returning to form would also be huge in this regard. Tackling RBs in the secondary has to be better. When McCaffrey went down the other night, the 9ers lost about 40% of their offense. We have to believe that game would have been much closer, had not been injured. 

Tua's 125 passer rating felt like the reason why they kept it close.  Mostert and Achane were more efficient as pass catchers (90 yards on 10 targets versus 119 yards on 22 carries).  I would still make stopping the pass the priority. 

 

Ravens and Lions have great rushing ability but they also have great passing efficiency.  Its the passing efficiency that gets more yards and adds more points as measured by EPA. 

 

I agree the rush defense will come down to the D-line controlling the line of scrimmage. 

 

Disagree on tackling in the secondary needing to be better.  Some MT% in the secondary for reference (Rapp: 1.6%, Douglas: 3.9%, Benford: 2.2%, Johnson: 0.0%!!!!!, Hamlin: 7.9% worst of starters, Lewis: 11.3%).  These are tremendous numbers (Bills are currently 2nd in missed tackles with only 40% coming from secondary players).  Last year they needed to do better as White, Douglas, and Hyde were all above 10% (Benford, Johnson, Rapp were all doing worse than this year too).  Basically every secondary position has a lower missed tackle percent than last year with the exception of Safety Hamlin versus Poyer and Dime backer Lewis versus Rapp.  

Edited December 3 by YattaOkasan

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Besides this year’s Baltimore game where we were run out of the building?

Sorry I was focused on the playoffs as I think that was in your post.  Not stacking the box does cost them plays (probably worst at number of explosive runs in the past few years) and games (Balt and Indy 2021 as great examples).  But when it comes to the playoffs its that we let Mahomes play out of his mind against us (and it really is only us as his other numbers in other games are good but not great).  

Edited December 3 by YattaOkasan

[Rocky Landing]

6 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Tua's 125 passer rating felt like the reason why they kept it close.  Mostert and Achane were more efficient as pass catchers (90 yards on 10 targets versus 119 yards on 22 carries).  I would still make stopping the pass the priority. 

 

Ravens and Lions have great rushing ability but they also have great passing efficiency.  Its the passing efficiency that gets more yards and adds more points as measured by EPA. 

 

I agree the rush defense will come down to the D-line controlling the line of scrimmage. 

 

Disagree on tackling in the secondary needing to be better.  Some MT% in the secondary for reference (Rapp: 1.6%, Douglas: 3.9%, Benford: 2.2%, Johnson: 0.0%!!!!!, Hamlin: 7.9% worst of starters, Lewis: 11.3%).  These are tremendous numbers (Bills are currently 2nd in missed tackles with only 40% coming from secondary players).  Last year they needed to do better as White, Douglas, and Hyde were all above 10% (Benford, Johnson, Rapp were all doing worse than this year too).  Basically every secondary position has a lower missed tackle percent than last year with the exception of Safety Hamlin versus Poyer and Dime backer Lewis versus Rapp.  

In context though, i suspect those tackling numbers represent a lot more WRs, than RBs. Our secondary had a tough time against Henry, and CMC, and even Achane. Even after the tackle, Henry, and CMC would drag the tackler another three-five yards...

 

I think it's the balanced attack we've had the most trouble with. Achane/Mostert were running really well in the first Miami game too, and we destroyed them in that game. But I have a lot more faith in our secondary defending the leagues best passing offenses than the best running offenses, though I certainly don't have any stats to back that up. 

[YattaOkasan]

3 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

In context though, i suspect those tackling numbers represent a lot more WRs, than RBs. Our secondary had a tough time against Henry, and CMC, and even Achane. Even after the tackle, Henry, and CMC would drag the tackler another three-five yards...

 

I think it's the balanced attack we've had the most trouble with. Achane/Mostert were running really well in the first Miami game too, and we destroyed them in that game. But I have a lot more faith in our secondary defending the leagues best passing offenses than the best running offenses, though I certainly don't have any stats to back that up. 

Yeah would love to see the splits with WR vs RBs (maybe its buried in there somewhere).  Can look closer for yards after contact that would be interesting and agree that Henry was dragging folks.  I will note that I didnt mention LBs and DL.  They are involved in the run game are not the best at missed tackles.

 

I agree i trust our secondary more to defend the best passers more than best rushing attack, but thats what they are there for.  To your earlier point if we want to stop the best rushing attacks we need to control the LOS with the DL better.  Baltimore was the only game I thought we definitively (and ultimately decisively) lost the LOS.  At worst in other games I think we played the LOS to a draw, which with light boxes means yards.  

Edited December 3 by YattaOkasan

[Green Lightning]

The 4-2-5 is solid during the regular season but if we get in against a powerhouse downfield running team, it's a match up nightmare. The worst match up I see would be Philly.  That would be a pounding. Not crazy about Pacheco being back with KC. My kingdom for Ted Washington in his prime.

[Rocky Landing]

3 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Yeah would love to see the splits with WR vs RBs (maybe its buried in there somewhere).  Can look closer for yards after contact that would be interesting and agree that Henry was dragging folks.  I will note that I didnt mention LBs and DL.  They are involved in the run game are not the best at missed tackles.

 

I agree i trust our secondary more to defend the best passers more than best rushing attack, but thats what they are there for.  To your earlier point if we want to stop the best rushing attacks we need to control the LOS with the DL better.  Baltimore was the only game I thought we definitively (and ultimately decisively) lost the LOS.  At worst in other games I think we played the LOS to a draw, which with light boxes means yards.  

Perhaps by the time we have to face then likes of Henry, or Montgomery/Gibbs (or, hopefully Barkley, or Montgomery/Gibbs in the Super Bowl 🙏), Milano will be 100%. 

[Peace Frog]

We need Ted Washington & Pat Williams 2.0 as our DTs.

  

[Matt_In_NH]

They are not going to stop with the light boxes because overall the strategy is successful.  The scheme is to allow runs to some degree to focus on pass defense above all.  Fire the coach is what it would take to change it.  I would not do that.