OT: what did you think of the hit on Lawrence?

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

When that guy body slammed McMahon he knew exactly what he was doing 

 

I guarantee you before that play started that guy just was running around at 100% not thinking he's going to kill Trevor Lawrence

 

He was playing football at full speed

Yup and he WAS probably looking to put a little fear in him, but as I said, when the QB is sliding, it can create a weird angle and any contact in that spot can have your noggin bounce off the turf very hard. I really don't think he was trying to hurt him as it played out. Scare the crap out of him? Knock him around a little? Sure. Very bad end result. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

When that guy body slammed McMahon he knew exactly what he was doing 

 

I guarantee you before that play started that guy just was running around at 100% not thinking he's going to kill Trevor Lawrence

 

He was playing football at full speed

We’ll never know. Maybe he saw red and lost his mind.
 

What do know is that 99% of defenders let up when a QB slides and don’t forearm shiver their heads into the turf. 
 

Conflating this with the bang bang “defender doesn’t have enough time to completely avoid contact” plays is just excusing bad behavior. And you’re wrong. Which is why virtually all NFL players, media, coaches all disagree with you. Despite what the “game was like” with black and white television.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We’ll never know. Maybe he saw red and lost his mind.
 

What do know is that 99% of defenders let up when a QB slides and don’t forearm shiver their heads into the turf. 
 

Conflating this with the bang bang “defender doesn’t have enough time to completely avoid contact” plays is just excusing bad behavior. And you’re wrong. Which is why virtually all NFL players, media, coaches all disagree with you. Despite what the “game was like” with black and white television.

Not all football players disagree with me 

 

There are plenty of coaches and players who think this was just and unfortunate incident that occurs on the football field 

 

Our old GM Whaley even said it himself ... Humans should not be playing football 

 

It is a very very very very very violent game... And that's why it's a penalty because they're trying to take some of the violence away 

 

So yes it was a penalty, and could even be an ejection according to the rules 

 

But that doesn't always equate to dirty which means intent... Dirty players have intent to be dirty

 

Conrad dobler

Edited yesterday at 01:06 AM by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

Intentional cheap shot from a player with past form. He looks right at Trevor's head as he is flying in and decides at that point to lead with a forearm. 

 

Rarely do I see an NFL hit that actually angers me because I think it was dirty and designed to injure. But that one was IMO. Disgraceful.

[BananaB]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Al-shaair literally looked like he lowered his body a bit to line up the headshot lol getting out of the way was very possible. I see tacklers jump over the qb there consistently 

Trevour Lawrence had plenty of time to give himself up on the run but he was pushing the limits trying to get as much as possible. Closer he gets to a defender more likely ***** gonna happpen. Simple as that. 
 

They made this rule to protect the QB but does it? Would it be better off him bracing himself and taking a hit? Trevour is running one place and the defender is trying to get there as soon as possible, ***** happens. Like I said, you don’t want to get hit give your self up earlier. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Not all football players disagree with me 

 

There are plenty of coaches and players who think this was just and unfortunate incident that occurs on the football field 

 

Our old GM Whaley even said it himself ... Humans should not be playing football 

 

It is a very very very very very violent game... And that's why it's a penalty because they're trying to take some of the violence away 

 

So yes it was a penalty, and could even be an ejection according to the rules 

 

But that doesn't always equate to dirty which means intent... Dirty players have intent to be dirty

 

There is not a single doubt in my mind he had intent to injure there. Not a one. I almost never think that about NFL hits. But I do on that play. He knew 100% what he was doing. It was designed to hurt an opponent.

[QCity]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

Intentional cheap shot from a player with past form. He looks right at Trevor's head as he is flying in and decides at that point to lead with a forearm. 

 

Rarely do I see an NFL hit that actually angers me because I think it was dirty and designed to injure. But that one was IMO. Disgraceful.

 

Haven't you heard Jim McMahon got slammed on his head 40 years ago so this is all within the game now.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Not all football players disagree with me 

 

There are plenty of coaches and players who think this was just and unfortunate incident that occurs on the football field 

 

Our old GM Whaley even said it himself ... Humans should not be playing football 

 

It is a very very very very very violent game

I just don’t see it…doesn’t even look like he’s closing at anywhere near full speed when he comes into the frame.  I’d be a little more accepting of his actions if that was the case.  Looks like the lightbulb goes off when he knows Lawrence is gonna slide and he’s thinking he’s gonna teach him a lesson and lunges at him.  
 

He almost comes to a stop right when Lawrence starts his slide to line up a better hit imo.  If he was flying in out of control full speed id understand it a little 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I just don’t see it…doesn’t even look like he’s closing at anywhere near full speed when he comes into the frame.  I’d be a little more accepting of his actions if that was the case.  Looks like the lightbulb goes off when he knows Lawrence is gonna slide and he’s thinking he’s gonna teach him a lesson and lunges at him.  
 

He almost comes to a stop right when Lawrence starts his slide to line up a better hit imo.  If he was flying in out of control full speed id understand it a little 

 

This is exactly what happened. He isn't flying full speed to make a tackle he sees the slide start, then raises his forearm and launches himself.

 

100% intentional.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

There is not a single doubt in my mind he had intent to injure there. Not a one. I almost never think that about NFL hits. But I do on that play. He knew 100% what he was doing. It was designed to hurt an opponent.

At the speed of the game.. it's impossible to judge intent 

 

These guys are not going 3 miles an hour..  you're going 20 miles an hour with 22 bodies flying around the field 

 

If Trevor Lawrence wanted to guarantee his safety he could have slid one or two yards earlier 

 

Late sliding is inviting a hit... Again watch Jim McMahon get body slammed on his head 

 

That is dirty on the field... This is not that 

 

You can make the case that he didn't do enough to try to protect Lawrence... But until you're running around 20 miles an hour with 22 other grown men on the field it's tough to judge intent 

 

I really doubt that guy wanted to seriously injure Lawrence because most football players are not evil

[TBBills Fan]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It was dirty when that player ran behind Jim McMahon picked him up and dumped him on his head 30 years ago 

 

This was within the bounds of what happens on a football field over the last 30 40 50 60 70 years 

 

It was dirty when the hauschka was walking off the field versus the Jets and he got blindsided out of the play 

 

This is a penalty, but at the speed of the game it happens.. I don't think that dude woke up today and said I'm going to kill Trevor Lawrence

 

 

No, he made a choice to do that. What does what happened to him McMahon have to do with it?

 

When I played HS football I planted my helmet on plenty of guys, but that has nothing to do with this either 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is exactly what happened. He isn't flying full speed to make a tackle he sees the slide start, then raises his forearm and launches himself.

 

100% intentional.

Yea I am just plain baffled…I think people have a bone to pick with the whole sliding process in general…what they’re describing definitely happens some plays and it sucks for both parties involved but this particular play did not look anything like that to me..  Al-Shaair EASILY could’ve avoided causing that hit 

 

he wanted Trevor to think twice next time he ran the football for sure.  I don’t know that the primary goal was to injure that’s impossible to say, but if he was trying to that’s exactly how it would’ve looked 🤣

Edited yesterday at 01:13 AM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[TBBills Fan]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

30 years ago Trevor Lawrence would be on jacked up 

 

And they would be celebrating

 

30 years ago woman were beat and told to shut up, then laughed at by cops. 

 

150 years ago, people owned people.  

 

Your point is not intelligent or relevant to today's game 

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Yea I am just plain baffled…I think people have a bone to pick with the whole sliding process in general…what they’re describing definitely happens some plays and it sucks for both parties involved but this particular play did not look anything like that to me..  Al-Shaair EASILY could’ve avoided causing that hit 

Exactly. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

No, he made a choice to do that. What does what happened to him McMahon have to do with it?

 

When I played HS football I planted my helmet on plenty of guys, but that has nothing to do with this either 

Because one is a true dirty play which has no basis in football 

 

And the other there are a thousand instances of quarterbacks sliding and getting hit ... The speed of the game has milliseconds to react... He could have slid two yards earlier and it would have been avoided... But he slid late which did invite a potential late hit

 

Yes it was a hard hit on a sliding quarterback which is against the rules but to make it full on this guy tried to kill Trevor Lawrence... That's a lot 

 

Coming out to hurt people is dirty ... There is zero proof that he goes out there with the intent to hurt people 

 

It happened on the play

Edited yesterday at 01:14 AM by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

At the speed of the game.. it's impossible to judge intent 

 

These guys are not going 3 miles an hour..  you're going 20 miles an hour with 22 bodies flying around the field 

 

If Trevor Lawrence wanted to guarantee his safety he could have slid one or two yards earlier 

 

Late sliding is inviting a hit... Again watch Jim McMahon get body slammed on his head 

 

That is dirty on the field... This is not that 

 

You can make the case that he didn't do enough to try to protect Lawrence... But until you're running around 20 miles an hour with 22 other grown men on the field it's tough to judge intent 

 

I really doubt that guy wanted to seriously injure Lawrence because most football players are not evil

 

Watch it again. This is not a guy flying at full speed out of control. He slows up, adjusts and then launches forearm first as he sees Trevor slide.

 

I think you are guilty of not wanting to think a player would do that do giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

He doesn't deserve it. That was 100% intentional. It was 100% dirty.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Watch it again. This is not a guy flying at full speed out of control. He slows up, adjusts and then launches forearm first as he sees Trevor slide.

 

I think you are guilty of not wanting to think a player would do that do giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

He doesn't deserve it. That was 100% intentional. It was 100% dirty.

So you think of Trevor slid two yards earlier he still gets his head taken off? 

 

He doesn't

[Success]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is not a single doubt in my mind he had intent to injure there. Not a one. I almost never think that about NFL hits. But I do on that play. He knew 100% what he was doing. It was designed to hurt an opponent.

 

I disagreed w/ this - MAYBE it's true that he had intent to injure.  I don't think it's obvious, or clear.  These plays happen so fast - guys are flying around and many of them play at a very high speed. 

 

I just don't think the mind works that quickly for a thought like that, for intent on something like that.

  

[Orlando Buffalo]

That hit was at minimum trying to send a message, at worst trying to injured. The message the guy sent is that he can't be trusted and CJ Stroud must be thinking that if he does it again the other defense might come for him

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

So you think of Trevor slid two yards earlier he still gets his head taken off? 

 

He doesn't

 

No because the opportunity doesn't exist if he slides 2 yards earlier. For it to be intentional it doesn't require him to have decided pre snap that he is going to try and take Lawrence's head off. At the moment he sees Lawrence start to slide and the opportunity arise his intention is "hurt him here". It is clear as day when you watch the way he adjusts his approach and launches. 

 

I'd be on your side on this if we were looking at any other play I have seen this season. But that was not a normal football play. That was a player intentionally seeking to hurt an oppponent when the opportunity arose to do so.

3 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I disagreed w/ this - MAYBE it's true that he had intent to injure.  I don't think it's obvious, or clear.  These plays happen so fast - guys are flying around and many of them play at a very high speed. 

 

I just don't think the mind works that quickly for a thought like that, for intent on something like that. 

 

Well I haven't played competitive football but I have played competitive soccer to a pretty good standard and trust me when you are about to fly into a 50:50 challenge your brain has plenty of time to decide what your priorities in that challenge are. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

So you think of Trevor slid two yards earlier he still gets his head taken off? 

 

He doesn't

I don’t see how that’s relevant to this situation honestly…I can follow you on the it’s a calculated risk that you’re gonna get hit by someone who physically can’t pull up in time.  100% with you there.  But to me al-shaair once he sees Lawrence is going to the ground nearly stops to readjust his attack angle so he can lay the wood on him while he slides.  That should never ever happen.  If he can adjust his hit like that he could easily avoid elbow dropping the qb in the head lol

 

Has the vibe to me like he was frustrated he didn’t close in time and gave up the first and took it out on Lawrence.   

Edited yesterday at 01:22 AM by Generic_Bills_Fan