Damar Hamlin leading pro bowl voting

[Brand J]

After week 13:

 

Damar Hamlin out of 86 qualifying safeties:

Coverage Grade: Hamlin's coverage grade of 59.8 ranks him 82nd out of 86 safeties, reflecting struggles in pass defense. He has allowed 16 receptions in coverage, with a passer rating of 68.6 when targeted. While the passer rating is respectable, his coverage grade indicates inconsistent play

PFF
StatMuse
.

Run Defense Grade: His run defense grade of 64.3 ranks 79th, showing difficulties in making impactful stops near the line of scrimmage compared to his peers

PFF
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Total Pressures and Pass Rush: Hamlin has recorded zero pressures and ranks 81st in pass-rush productivity, indicating a minimal impact when blitzing

PFF
.

Stops (Impactful Tackles): Hamlin ranks 28th with only 14 "stops" (defined as tackles that constitute a failure for the offense), suggesting limited effectiveness in creating negative plays for opposing offenses

PFF
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Missed Tackle Rate: As noted, his 13.1% missed tackle rate ranks 77th, reinforcing concerns about tackling reliability. If you take into account every possible safety, his ranking is 129th. 

StatMuse
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[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, Brand J said:

After week 13:

 

Damar Hamlin out of 86 qualifying safeties:

Coverage Grade: Hamlin's coverage grade of 59.8 ranks him 82nd out of 86 safeties, reflecting struggles in pass defense. He has allowed 16 receptions in coverage, with a passer rating of 68.6 when targeted. While the passer rating is respectable, his coverage grade indicates inconsistent play

PFF
StatMuse
.

Run Defense Grade: His run defense grade of 64.3 ranks 79th, showing difficulties in making impactful stops near the line of scrimmage compared to his peers

PFF
.

Total Pressures and Pass Rush: Hamlin has recorded zero pressures and ranks 81st in pass-rush productivity, indicating a minimal impact when blitzing

PFF
.

Stops (Impactful Tackles): Hamlin ranks 28th with only 14 "stops" (defined as tackles that constitute a failure for the offense), suggesting limited effectiveness in creating negative plays for opposing offenses

PFF
.

Missed Tackle Rate: As noted, his 13.1% missed tackle rate ranks 77th, reinforcing concerns about tackling reliability. If you take into account every possible safety, his ranking is 129th. 

StatMuse
.

 

Because you know, PFF really reflects how guys are coached to play.

[Mister Defense]

13 minutes ago, Brand J said:

After week 13:

 

Damar Hamlin out of 86 qualifying safeties:

Coverage Grade: Hamlin's coverage grade of 59.8 ranks him 82nd out of 86 safeties, reflecting struggles in pass defense. He has allowed 16 receptions in coverage, with a passer rating of 68.6 when targeted. While the passer rating is respectable, his coverage grade indicates inconsistent play

PFF
StatMuse
.

Run Defense Grade: His run defense grade of 64.3 ranks 79th, showing difficulties in making impactful stops near the line of scrimmage compared to his peers

PFF
.

Total Pressures and Pass Rush: Hamlin has recorded zero pressures and ranks 81st in pass-rush productivity, indicating a minimal impact when blitzing

PFF
.

Stops (Impactful Tackles): Hamlin ranks 28th with only 14 "stops" (defined as tackles that constitute a failure for the offense), suggesting limited effectiveness in creating negative plays for opposing offenses

PFF
.

Missed Tackle Rate: As noted, his 13.1% missed tackle rate ranks 77th, reinforcing concerns about tackling reliability. If you take into account every possible safety, his ranking is 129th. 

StatMuse
.

 

 

So, yes, he has a few minor areas he needs to sharpen up, to rise to his potential and become a perennial pro bowler.

 

 

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

So, yes, he has a few minor areas he needs to sharpen up, to rise to his potential and become a perennial pro bowler.

 

This is also true. 

I feel that Hamlin has been solid, not the "weakest link" on D.  He's not the PhD level safety that Hyde was in his prime, but even then - Hyde did make some game-losing gaffes, and he had fallen off last year.  Hamlin has exceeded my expectations (which, granted, were not high) and played solid,

 

That said, the idea of him being better than 62 other starting safeties in the league thus deserving of Pro Bowl status, kind of highlights that Pro Bowl is no longer the prestigious honor it once was.

[Mister Defense]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

This is also true. 

I feel that Hamlin has been solid, not the "weakest link" on D.  He's not the PhD level safety that Hyde was in his prime, but even then - Hyde did make some game-losing gaffes, and he had fallen off last year.  Hamlin has exceeded my expectations (which, granted, were not high) and played solid,

 

That said, the idea of him being better than 62 other starting safeties in the league thus deserving of Pro Bowl status, kind of highlights that Pro Bowl is no longer the prestigious honor it once was.

 

Well, though my post was tongue in cheek, I do agree that Hamlin has played better than expected--as he not been the major liability I had feared, has not seemed to cost the Bills' games.

 

Good for him, as I had thought he may struggle to find a roster spot in the league this year, and now will likely be a valuable back up for the Bills, or other teams, going forward.

 

 

[Einstein]

49 minutes ago, Brand J said:

After week 13:

 

Damar Hamlin out of 86 qualifying safeties:

Coverage Grade: Hamlin's coverage grade of 59.8 ranks him 82nd out of 86 safeties, reflecting struggles in pass defense. He has allowed 16 receptions in coverage, with a passer rating of 68.6 when targeted. While the passer rating is respectable, his coverage grade indicates inconsistent play

PFF
StatMuse
.

Run Defense Grade: His run defense grade of 64.3 ranks 79th, showing difficulties in making impactful stops near the line of scrimmage compared to his peers

PFF
.

Total Pressures and Pass Rush: Hamlin has recorded zero pressures and ranks 81st in pass-rush productivity, indicating a minimal impact when blitzing

PFF
.

Stops (Impactful Tackles): Hamlin ranks 28th with only 14 "stops" (defined as tackles that constitute a failure for the offense), suggesting limited effectiveness in creating negative plays for opposing offenses

PFF
.

Missed Tackle Rate: As noted, his 13.1% missed tackle rate ranks 77th, reinforcing concerns about tackling reliability. If you take into account every possible safety, his ranking is 129th. 

StatMuse
.

I've been saying this all season. He is not good.

McD & Babich are doing an incredible job hiding him.

He is not solid and he is BY FAR the weakest link on defense.

[Harold Jackson]

On 12/2/2024 at 1:19 PM, Warriorspikes51 said:

Pro Bowler used to be a meaningful designation.

Now it's just a popularity thing

And a stupid ass flag football game.

 

[Beck Water]

45 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Well, though my post was tongue in cheek, I do agree that Hamlin has played better than expected--as he not been the major liability I had feared, has not seemed to cost the Bills' games.

 

Good for him, as I had thought he may struggle to find a roster spot in the league this year, and now will likely be a valuable back up for the Bills, or other teams, going forward.

 

In 2022, what I saw was that Hamlin was ok to solid playing next to Poyer (better as he got a few games under his belt).  But when Poyer went out - first Mia game, Pittsburgh, Jets, Minnesota - there was a noticable fall off, not only in the safety play with Jaquan Johnson in 3 games then Cam Lewis playing safety vs the Vikes, but in Hamlin's play as well.  

 

And I think that may be what the Bills are worried about as shown by adding Hyde to the PS - if Rapp is now having neck problems after the 49ers game to add to his shoulder injury from the Chiefs game, and it kept him limited all week, the Bills may be feeling he's one wrong hit away from IR with a stinger, and the level of safety play might go from "Servicable" to "Not Good Enough".  Again, I note that Kareem Jackson, though a former 1st round pick, is actually 3 years older than Hyde is.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is also true. 

I feel that Hamlin has been solid, not the "weakest link" on D.  He's not the PhD level safety that Hyde was in his prime, but even then - Hyde did make some game-losing gaffes, and he had fallen off last year.  Hamlin has exceeded my expectations (which, granted, were not high) and played solid,

 

That said, the idea of him being better than 62 other starting safeties in the league thus deserving of Pro Bowl status, kind of highlights that Pro Bowl is no longer the prestigious honor it once was.

Who do you think has been the worst player on the defense 

[HappyDays]

My take is that just about every defense has a replacement level player starting. Having that one player be a safety isn't a terrible outcome. My fear with Hamlin was that he was below replacement level but it turns out he meets that threshold. If we lose in the playoffs it won't be because of safety play IMO.

[gonzo1105]

26 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Who do you think has been the worst player on the defense 

Daquan Jones imo

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

My take is that just about every defense has a replacement level player starting. Having that one player be a safety isn't a terrible outcome. My fear with Hamlin was that he was below replacement level but it turns out he meets that threshold. If we lose in the playoffs it won't be because of safety play IMO.

You can’t see a gigantic Xavier Worthy 60 yard TD in the playoffs with Hamlin 8 yards behind him just out of frame?

 

You are a more well-adjusted fan than me.

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You can’t see a gigantic Xavier Worthy 60 yard TD in the playoffs with Hamlin 8 yards behind him just out of frame?

 

You are a more well-adjusted fan than me.

 

Honestly no, I can't. The only TD like that the Bills have given up all year is when Bishop was in against Houston. The almost deep pass we gave up to Worthy I'm pretty sure was Benford's fault for not playing the right responsibility. I could see Hamlin hurting us by taking a bad angle as the last man in line to stop an explosive run as he's done a couple times this year but that doesn't keep me up at night.

[Sierra Foothills]

On 12/3/2024 at 11:01 AM, folz said:

I really don't understand the negativity towards Damar from fans around the country, but more importantly from Bills fans. He's a Buffalo Bill...why are so many people so down on him? Why aren't you just rooting for him like any other Bills player? It's got to be something psychological. I don't care whether he is worthy of a Pro-Bowl or not, but this season-long narrative that he sucks or is only starting because he's a good story is getting old, especially when he is playing well.

 

I mean, please show me or point out to me all of these big plays that he has given up. And then how many of them have cost us games or whatever? I just don't get it. Is he an All-Pro? No. But he's playing pretty darn well for a 6th rounder who was groomed in McD's system. And he now has 25 starts in the league.

 

Damar's stats for 2024

70 tackles (2nd on the team)

51 solo tackles

2 TFLs

2 (should be 3) INTs

5 passes defended

1 fumble recovery

1 QB hit

 

He is 10th among safeties in solo tackles (out of what, like 64 safeties?). And as a free safety, not a strong safety (though in McD's system, they are a bit interchangeable). And considering that he's generally the last line of defense, that's at least 51 times this season he helped the team out. He is a very sure tackler and he's not afraid of contact. Does he have elite size and speed? No...that's why he was a 6th rounder. But, he's getting the job done, imo. He held off Mike Edwards, he's held off 2nd round pick Cole Bishop. And we all know that McD doesn't just hand out starting positions, you have to earn it.

 

[Per Pro-Football Reference]

The Bills are 6th against the pass (yards), tied for 8th in passing TDs allowed

The Bills are 18th against the run (yards), but tied for 3rd in rushing TDs allowed

The Bills are tied for 5th overall in points allowed

The Bills are tied for 8th in Red Zone defense

The Bills are 9th in total yards allowed

 

If Damar was such a weak link, wouldn't he get picked on all of the time by our opponents? And if that were the case, shouldn't our defensive numbers be a lot worse? Could we really be a top 10 defense with a safety who sucks?

 

Again, I'm not saying that he is or should be a Pro-Bowler, but it's at least time that Bills fans started giving him some props for his contributions to the team this year.

 

Great post. Thank you.

 

It's sad that so many Bills fans here need to publicly state their negative beliefs about him. The one thing you didn't mention...

 

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

I've been saying this all season. He is not good.

McD & Babich are doing an incredible job hiding him.

He is not solid and he is BY FAR the weakest link on defense.

 

Virtually no one would argue that McDermott is a DB Whisperer and that Beane is a great talent evaluator.

 

No one would argue that NFL football is a bottom line, results-oriented, high stakes business.

 

So if Hamlin is as bad as his critics here insist, why would McDermott and Beane put the fortunes (wins and losses) of a billion dollar enterprise in the hands of someone who sucks?

 

Edited December 7 by Sierra Foothills

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Josh “led the voting” last year then didn’t even make it, turned down the later invite as an alternative. 

[Einstein]

16 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

So if Hamlin is as bad as his critics here insist, why would McDermott and Beane put the fortunes (wins and losses) of a billion dollar enterprise in the hands of someone who sucks?

 

 

There is a reason why they just signed Hyde…

and it’s not to be a feel-good story.

[Einstein]

50 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You can’t see a gigantic Xavier Worthy 60 yard TD in the playoffs with Hamlin 8 yards behind him just out of frame?

 

I can definitely see it happening, but it most likely won’t. And the reason is that McDermott and Babich have been hiding him very well, to avoid scenarios like this. On any pass play that has any reasonability of being a long shot, they have Hamlin playing so far freaking back that you would think he was heading to the locker room. The long play in the Texans game shows what happens when you have 2 bad safeties on the field (Rapp was out). The Texans caught the bills on first and 10, going deep, and we had Hamlin on the weak side of the field, within 15 yards of the LOS. they knew there was no way that Hamlin could provided any pass support whatsoever with his slow speed, so as soon as the receiver got past Douglas, it was over. Cole Bishop bit hard on the pump fake too so he obviously has major blame too, don’t get me wrong.On likely rundowns, you’ll also see it’s not uncommon for us to shift LB’s shifted toward his side, because they know there is a good chance he misses the tackle.

 

I’ve been telling people this all year, right on this forum, but no one likes to believe it. They think I’m just hating on Hamlin. I’m not. I have nothing against the guy whatsoever. He’s just not a good football player. 

 

I’ve made a few jokes about Elam over the years, but I’ve seen far more from him that I’ve ever seen from Hamlin.

Edited December 7 by Einstein

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

3 hours ago, Brand J said:

After week 13:

 

Damar Hamlin out of 86 qualifying safeties:

Coverage Grade: Hamlin's coverage grade of 59.8 ranks him 82nd out of 86 safeties, reflecting struggles in pass defense. He has allowed 16 receptions in coverage, with a passer rating of 68.6 when targeted. While the passer rating is respectable, his coverage grade indicates inconsistent play

PFF
StatMuse
.

Run Defense Grade: His run defense grade of 64.3 ranks 79th, showing difficulties in making impactful stops near the line of scrimmage compared to his peers

PFF
.

Total Pressures and Pass Rush: Hamlin has recorded zero pressures and ranks 81st in pass-rush productivity, indicating a minimal impact when blitzing

PFF
.

Stops (Impactful Tackles): Hamlin ranks 28th with only 14 "stops" (defined as tackles that constitute a failure for the offense), suggesting limited effectiveness in creating negative plays for opposing offenses

PFF
.

Missed Tackle Rate: As noted, his 13.1% missed tackle rate ranks 77th, reinforcing concerns about tackling reliability. If you take into account every possible safety, his ranking is 129th. 

StatMuse
.

I'm not surprised by this writeup 

 

The best thing Hamlin did all season was take tua out with that incredibly bruising tackle

Edited December 7 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Great post. Thank you.

 

It's sad that so many Bills fans here need to publicly state their negative beliefs about him. The one thing you didn't mention...

 

 

Virtually no one would argue that McDermott is a DB Whisperer and that Beane is a great talent evaluator.

 

No one would argue that NFL football is a bottom line, results-oriented, high stakes business.

 

So if Hamlin is as bad as his critics here insist, why would McDermott and Beane put the fortunes (wins and losses) of a billion dollar enterprise in the hands of someone who sucks?

 

Because the guys they brought in to replace him also sucked?

 

Here's the scenario.

 

Hamlin knows the defense because he's been here a while, he's cheap but he sucks.

 

The Bills draft a safety in the second round and bring in an FA who has started at a decent level in the NFL in Mike Edwards.

 

The rookie gets hurt and isn't ready. Edwards sucks more than Hamlim. Hamlin starts by default.

 

Hamlin still sucks. The guys they brought in to challenge him sucked more. So they bring in a semi-retired vet with his head falling off to replace him because they actually think he may be better.

[machine gun kelly]

On 12/2/2024 at 4:21 PM, Big Turk said:

He has been playing much better than anyone could have imagined going into the year but no way he deserves to be in the Pro Bowl, let alone leading the voting.

Some are living in the past as Rapp and Hamlin have been one of her highest Safety tandem groups in the league in 2024 per the advanced analytics.  Good for him, but Benford deserves consideration.