PFF Rankings

[jayg]

3 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

I know, I know, but still.  If the PFF rankings are accurate, the Bills should be 0 - 12 this year.  Josh Allen - 6th ranked QB.  Cool.

 

Unrelated.  I'm not knowledgeable enough to know why the Bills were getting gashed up the middle so badly.  Scheme?  DTs? Bernard?  Is that something that has to wait until the All-22's come out?  Kinda hoping Carter comes back and solidifies the middle a bit.

 

3 hours ago, appoo said:

Pff has elite data collection. Generally their grades are more questionable 

 

3 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

I was laughing during the broadcast when they called out the offense and the PFF ranking for every offensive player was basically horrible, like out of the top 15. Only Spencer Brown was in the top 10 besides Allen.

 

We sure are doing a lot of winning for a bunch of PFF scrubs. 2nd best PPG in the league with mostly guys outside of the top 15 in every position. Seems like the rankings might just be BS. 

 

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

Annual post to remind people that PFF is actually great, and the NFL uses it, but grading a player is subjective. 
 

Grades between elite NFL games range as well. Bill Polian, one of the greatest GM’s ever, had bad grades on players who ended up great and good grades on players that ended up being terrible.

 

29 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I stopped paying attention to PFF as soon as I knew CC was involved.  I did not imagine how bad some of the rankings could be until I saw Tre White ranked as one of the worst 5 CBs in the league in the intro to the NO game where he got hurt.  At that point basically no team ever tried throwing in his direction and he regularly shut everything down but he was something like 98/102.

 I thought I heard somethihng a few weeks ago about Cris Collinsworths association with PFF but never looked it up until now. Here's what the Google machine says:

My question.... Does Cris Collinsworth have an interest in Pro Football Focus?

 

Yes, Cris Collinsworth is the majority owner of Pro Football Focus (PFF): 

Purchase

In 2014, Collinsworth, a former NFL player and current sportscaster, bought a majority interest in PFF

Edited December 2 by jayg

[34-78-83]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

People still wondering why they get run on at ease sometimes? 
 

Its scheme.
 

Also, It’s nearly impossible to keep it up every series of downs. So the Bills believe that you’ll make a mistake at some point. Even if you don’t make a mistake as the field gets s

small the safeties start to fill faster. FGs won’t beat Josh Allen.

 

It’s a great system until you play a team that does stop Allen.

Agreed! On top of that, ZERO D linemen on ANY team in the league were going to look or grade out good in those conditions. It was explained many times over the entire course of the game broadcast (Yes I've now watched the entire broadcast after witnessing the game live, LMAO!).

[4th&long]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

People still wondering why they get run on at ease sometimes? 
 

Its scheme.
 

Also, It’s nearly impossible to keep it up every series of downs. So the Bills believe that you’ll make a mistake at some point. Even if you don’t make a mistake as the field gets s

small the safeties start to fill faster. FGs won’t beat Josh Allen.

 

It’s a great system until you play a team that does stop Allen.

Honestly I’m not sure why people don’t understand this yet? This is what the bills give the other team, they do not want to get killed by the big pass play. 
 

and with how slippery the field was I think it was obvious the offense has the big advantage. The bills ran for 80 more yards and had a higher average per carry. 
 

The bios will always get run on. their muddle lb isn’t much bigger than a strong safety!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Agreed! On top of that, ZERO D linemen on ANY team in the league were going to look or grade out good in those conditions. It was explained many times over the entire course of the game broadcast (Yes I've now watched the entire broadcast after witnessing the game live, LMAO!).

True. Those conditions favored running the football. We don’t give enough credit to the tackle Taylor Rapp made on McCaffery. 

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

People still wondering why they get run on at ease sometimes? 
 

Its scheme.
 

Also, It’s nearly impossible to keep it up every series of downs. So the Bills believe that you’ll make a mistake at some point. Even if you don’t make a mistake as the field gets s

small the safeties start to fill faster. FGs won’t beat Josh Allen.

 

It’s a great system until you play a team that does stop Allen.

 

They are willing to trade some runs for a few TFL's to put tems in 2nd and 3rd and long situations so they can tee off on the pass rush.

[machine gun kelly]

IDK know how this turned into trash the best defensive player we have on the team and the people that count voted him as 1st team all pro.  Bill Polian states Milano changes the entire scope of this defense before the last injuries.  He was out in 15 degree weather with 15 mph winds on a sloppy surface, and “he’s rusty”.  Give me a break.  Trade bait.  First, the Bills will never do that ina million years and his contract is untradeable. He’s also invaluable when he’s out there for a reason. Thank god, McBeane are smarter than some knuckleheads on this board.

 

He probably won’t get an extension, but that’s not for another 2.5 years.  He’ll play with us through 2026 and he’s earned it.  Wait until you see him on a nice surface against the Rams, and the Lions, two domed teams.  Since the Cheats, Jests, and Cheats are toast, Williams will get some time in those weeks.

 

Were going to need a well oiled Milano for the Lions game, amd thankfully we cam out of Sunday night with no one going into the blue tent, amd by the Lions should have Coleman and Kinkaid back and humming.  This is the game of the year for the NFL.  The ratings will be through the roof.

[LABILLBACKER]

50 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

I thought Rapp played excellent, 

 

Rapp has been pretty damn good this year. He is wayyy more versatile than I thought he would be based on his play last year. 

Rapp has been exceptional. He saved 2 tds last night with huge plays.  The question going forward will be what to do with Bishop?  They basically play the same position. We're going to have to find a way to keep Rapp.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

Annual post to remind people that PFF is actually great, and the NFL uses it, but grading a player is subjective. 
 

Grades between elite NFL games range as well. Bill Polian, one of the greatest GM’s ever, had bad grades on players who ended up great and good grades on players that ended up being terrible.

There isn’t anything subjective about grading Geno Smith as having the better game than Allen when they played a few weeks ago.  That’s called a flaw.

[Joe Mama]

I wonder what PFF grade Torrence got for the JA17 TD run. The 49er defender was face down in the snow with 350 lbs. on top of him.

[Einstein]

33 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

There isn’t anything subjective about grading Geno Smith as having the better game than Allen when they played a few weeks ago.  That’s called a flaw.

 

Its called being wrong.

 

Like the GM of the Jets was wrong for taking Darnold over Allen.

 

 

[BigAl2526]

5 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

I know, I know, but still.  If the PFF rankings are accurate, the Bills should be 0 - 12 this year.  Josh Allen - 6th ranked QB.  Cool.

 

Unrelated.  I'm not knowledgeable enough to know why the Bills were getting gashed up the middle so badly.  Scheme?  DTs? Bernard?  Is that something that has to wait until the All-22's come out?  Kinda hoping Carter comes back and solidifies the middle a bit.

And yet, Josh Allen is Chris Collinsworth's fantasy QB.

[Royale with Cheese]

46 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Its called being wrong.

 

Like the GM of the Jets was wrong for taking Darnold over Allen.

 

 

Darnold over Allen is hindsight.  

Geno over Allen is a flaw.  The PFF Analysts went over the game and they determined Geno was better.  Their formula and grading system they use is terribly flawed.  

The last time I looked up the grades, Allen was outside the top 10 for QB’s with Aaron Rodgers ahead of Allen.  That is flawed.

 

How can you say PFF is great when you yourself disagree with a lot from them?  

Edited December 2 by Royale with Cheese

[Don Otreply]

What pff does with the data isn’t necessarily backed up by the data…, 

[Einstein]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

How can you say PFF is great when you yourself disagree with a lot from them?  

The same way physicists can disagree on the results of an experiment yet still have great respect for the others opinion.

[BearNorth]

As someone who has been doing sports stats at the HS and College level since the 1960's While I'm glad that tools like PFF exist, they may not have enough sensitivity to accurately reflect how some players impact the game. 

 

I find it difficult to believe for example; that Josh, who they have graded in the 90's in each of the past 4 years, has suddenly dropped down to the #6 QB in their rankings behind Lamar, Burrow, Daniels, Herbert, and Carr, none of whom play for a team with a better record than the Bills. 

 

He has 1 game this season [KC] that is at the level he has averaged for each of the past 4 seasons.  Is Josh playing worse, not that I can see, but his grades are not reflective of how well he is playing or his leadership.

 

Last night his PFF grade was 80.7 even tho he posted a nearly perfect passer rating, and scored a TD on the ground and threw for two more, including one to himself on the hook and lateral with Coleman.

 

I think their scale on grading plays may not be sensitive enough to properly credit extraordinary plays such as the run vs. KC or the Allen to Coleman to Allen play last night. I also don't think they weight game changing plays heavily enough, for example the Rapp forced fumble which IMHO turned the entire game into a rout.

Edited December 3 by BearNorth

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Darnold over Allen is hindsight.  

Geno over Allen is a flaw.  The PFF Analysts went over the game and they determined Geno was better.  Their formula and grading system they use is terribly flawed.  

The last time I looked up the grades, Allen was outside the top 10 for QB’s with Aaron Rodgers ahead of Allen.  That is flawed.

 

How can you say PFF is great when you yourself disagree with a lot from them?  

Pff sucks 

 

They have great advanced stats and analytics that coaches can use....

 

Their grading system is completely flawed and biased even... It's a tool , not the bar that should be set

 

Anybody who understands football doesn't need someone else to tell them what they see... Eyes don't lie typically... I don't need their arbitrary grade 

 

Take away the nuance and it's not hard to tell who is getting their ass kicked and who's doing the kicking typically

 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

8 hours ago, Aesop said:

Bills still ran heavy Nickle, which should shock no one at this point. It is the McD modus operandi. Until the Bills have a dominate 1 tech they will always get gashed on the ground against good rushing teams, which SF is...also the snow plays a role in this. Its hard enough to read and react, aka play defense. Its even harder to do so when you dont have your footing. Go Bills!

That nickle is going to let BOTH Lions RB's get 125+ yards and 2+ td's on us.  There won't be any bend, not breaking against them.

[Aesop]

57 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

That nickle is going to let BOTH Lions RB's get 125+ yards and 2+ td's on us.  There won't be any bend, not breaking against them.

I dont disagree with this. Really comes down to inside the 20s. McD defense is usually pretty stout in the redzone. Less grass to cover, safetys can creep up more. The Lions certaintly will be the ultimate test.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

The same way physicists can disagree on the results of an experiment yet still have great respect for the others opinion.

LOL, this isn’t at that or anywhere near that level.  
 

This isn’t brilliant minds debating a complex subject.  The casual fan can see Allen played better than Geno.  There isn’t argument to be made that Allen played worse than Geno that day.  
 

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Pff sucks 

 

They have great advanced stats and analytics that coaches can use....

 

Their grading system is completely flawed and biased even... It's a tool , not the bar that should be set

 

Anybody who understands football doesn't need someone else to tell them what they see... Eyes don't lie typically... I don't need their arbitrary grade 

 

Take away the nuance and it's not hard to tell who is getting their ass kicked and who's doing the kicking typically

 

 

Yeah it does suck.

[GASabresIUFan]

Worrying about PFF grades from this past game is a waste of time.  
Game conditions gave the rushing games a huge advantage and the Bills still won 35-10.  Winning the turnover battle 3-0 helped us significantly but we also were able to pass the ball more often and more successfully than SF. 
 

Time to move to the next two games where we’ll have good field conditions on the road and we’ll see how our run defense holds up.