Ladd McConkey

[T master]

16 hours ago, HansLanda said:

see: Khalil Shakir. I get it with the production as a rookie, but let's just see how Keon plays out as that is the next natural question. 

 

Right now Keon has 22 rec. for 417 yds and he's missed 3 games i believe he was a good get & will continue to produce for this team for a long while .

 

And i think when back healthy will contribute to help this team in ways that will make the fans glad he's a Buffalo Bill ...

 

GO BILLS !!! 

[BADOLBILZ]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. But you can find Tank Dells in the 3rd and Khalil Shakirs in the 5th.

 

It's why for me I wouldn't use a 1st round pick on a guy I thought was a slot only. I know in the end we didn't use a 1st round pick on anyone. But it is about the opportunity cost of not using 1st round picks on Quarterbacks or the guys who have to win 1v1s outside in the NFL- franchise LT, #1WR, #1CB, DE.

 

I had McConkey above Coleman fwiw, he was my WR8, Keon was WR9. But I wouldn't have spent a first round pick on either for different reasons.

 

 

There are still a lot of people who just can't understand the VALUE of being able to win matchups at edge/island positions.   

 

McConkey is a slot WR.   That's it.  His value is akin to that of a starting RB because LOTS of WR can get open and make plays with free releases and nickel CB matchups.   Just like lot's of RB's can produce with good blocking in front of them.   And an abundance of guards who can block good DT's in tight spaces(LOL at All Pro G Joe Thuney at LT the other night).  

 

Ultimately, it's just supply and demand.   

[MJS]

Yeah, he is a Shakir clone. We already have one of those.

18 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Coleman's size and ability to play outside was certainly a factor in drafting him, however Beane's other moves at WR diminishes that argument.  Don't forget his big FA signings were the 5'11 Curtis Samuel who plays the slot, 6'4" Mack Hollins who plays outside and then traded for 6'1 Amari Cooper to also play outside.  Had he drafted McConkey, who can play both inside and outside, he may not have needed to sign Samuel and could have used that money elsewhere and still traded for Cooper. 

 

Watching Ladd for the LAC, he is being utilized exactly as he was at UGA.  He plays inside and outside, and unlike many Bills receivers, he always finds a way to get separation or find a crease in the defense.   

Free agency happens BEFORE the draft. Samuel would have been signed regardless.

[Magox]

Pure nastiness

 

 

 

Best rookie route runner. Can win so many ways.

 

 

[DCofNC]

I did not see him being this good, I don’t care if you think “we already have Shakir”. The kid is better than Shakir, as a rookie and perhaps more importantly, would be under contract longer, cheaper.  Oh AND you could throw him and Shakir on the field at the same time.  I like Coleman, but early returns, no doubt the Bolts stole one.

[JerseyBills]

He's excellent but Shakir has that role on this team. 

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

I did not see him being this good, I don’t care if you think “we already have Shakir”. The kid is better than Shakir, as a rookie and perhaps more importantly, would be under contract longer, cheaper.  Oh AND you could throw him and Shakir on the field at the same time.  I like Coleman, but early returns, no doubt the Bolts stole one.

Better than Shakir? Ya okay. Shakir has the best catch % in the league 

[DCofNC]

47 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

 

Better than Shakir? Ya okay. Shakir has the best catch % in the league 

That’s one of the dumbest stats in the world and indicative of exactly nothing.   Would you say that Shakir is the best WR in the league?  Nobody in their right mind would agree.

 

Ladd has more yards, better average catch by a wide margin, more TDs, all as a rookie.  He is better than Shakir already and the only delusional Bills fans would even attempt to argue otherwise.

Edited December 29, 2024 by DCofNC

[Mikie2times]

I feel like the debate is more about moving up to get Thomas Jr. but the reality is this will prove to be one of the better WR drafts in a long time. Our guy is pretty good as well. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

That’s one of the dumbest stats in the world and indicative of exactly nothing.   Would you say that Shakir is the best WR in the league?  Nobody in their right mind would agree.

 

Ladd has more yards, better average catch by a wide margin, more TDs, all as a rookie.  He is better than Shakir already and the only delusional Bills fans would even attempt to argue otherwise.

Catch rate is pretty important for slot receivers imo…a lot of their catches are really hard fought drive saving third down conversions.  Not trying to say Shakir is better or not but to downplay his catch rate is a little too strong in the opposite direction 🤣

 

 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I did not see him being this good, I don’t care if you think “we already have Shakir”. The kid is better than Shakir, as a rookie and perhaps more importantly, would be under contract longer, cheaper.  Oh AND you could throw him and Shakir on the field at the same time.  I like Coleman, but early returns, no doubt the Bolts stole one.

His skillset is the same as Shakir’s.

 

That alone limits his value to this Bills team. 

[notpolian]

McConkey produced in college at a very high level program.  No surprise he produces in the pros.

[DCofNC]

40 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Catch rate is pretty important for slot receivers imo…a lot of their catches are really hard fought drive saving third down conversions.  Not trying to say Shakir is better or not but to downplay his catch rate is a little too strong in the opposite direction 🤣

 

 

Ok, it’s a stat that says you catch the ball, that’s the job.  Just for everyone who has a big hard on over Shakir having the “best in the NFL” he no longer does, it’s St. Brown, Godwin and then Shakir, and McConkey is a whopping 3% lower, so perspective there, it’s 2 freaking catches a year difference.   It’s a stupid stat.  Justin Jefferson is at 68.7% vs Shakir at 77.8, guess the Vikes would trade Jefferson to us for Shakir, right?  

12 minutes ago, notpolian said:

McConkey produced in college at a very high level program.  No surprise he produces in the pros.

He really didn’t do all that much at Georgia.

46 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I feel like the debate is more about moving up to get Thomas Jr. but the reality is this will prove to be one of the better WR drafts in a long time. Our guy is pretty good as well. 

Yes, that 3rd rounder wasted on Cooper would have represented the difference in value to go up for BTJ, but Beane couldn’t live without another rotational (back-up) DL, so giving up a 3rd last year was out of the question.  Now we get to go into the next draft with the same hole and no 3rd rounder..  

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

His skillset is the same as Shakir’s.

 

That alone limits his value to this Bills team. 

Because there is no advantage at all to having identical production and skill sets under cost controlled contracts for an extra 3 or 4 years. MIght as well pay the big bucks. 

[Bangarang]

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

He's excellent but Shakir has that role on this team. 

Better than Shakir? Ya okay. Shakir has the best catch % in the league 

 

The high catch % is very much helped by his aDOT which is among one of the lowest in the league by a WR with his target share. 

[GASabresIUFan]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

His skillset is the same as Shakir’s.

 

That alone limits his value to this Bills team. 

Actually it's not.  Shakir is a possession receiver catching short throws over the middle.  McConkey is bigger, faster, is better at getting open down the field and has just as good of hands.  McConkey is more of the Nacua and St Brown type "slot" receiver.  

 

Compare (through 15 games)  Note: YBC (yards before catch)

St Brown 101 rec, 1126 yards, 11.1 yards/rec, 7.4 YBC/Rec, 3.8 YAC/rec

McConkey 69 rec, 960 yards, 13.9 yards/rec, 9.2 ybc/rec,  4.7 YAC/rec

Shakir 73 rec, 796 yards, 10.9 yards/rec, 3.0 YBC/rec, 7.9 YAC/rec

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

His skillset is the same as Shakir’s.

 

That alone limits his value to this Bills team. 

 

I don't think "the skillset" is the same. It is similar but I think McConkey is a route runner whereas Shakir is a space finder and Ladd has a bit more pop to get vertical which is why he generally catches the ball further down the field than Khalil. However, they both have to be deployed primarily from the slot. Does McConkey give you a bit more split wide than Shakir? I think so. But he isn't a viable down in and down out outside receiver. 

 

Going into the draft the Bills had Shakir and Samuel (both guys who really need to be deployed from the slot) as the consensus top two receivers on their depth chart with their primary outside receiver being Mack Hollins. Drafting another slot guy would have been difficult to fathom, let alone spending a 1st round pick on one (and yes, I know, we picked 33rd in the end).

[GASabresIUFan]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think "the skillset" is the same. It is similar but I think McConkey is a route runner whereas Shakir is a space finder and Ladd has a bit more pop to get vertical which is why he generally catches the ball further down the field than Khalil. However, they both have to be deployed primarily from the slot. Does McConkey give you a bit more split wide than Shakir? I think so. But he isn't a viable down in and down out outside receiver. 

 

Going into the draft the Bills had Shakir and Samuel (both guys who really need to be deployed from the slot) as the consensus top two receivers on their depth chart with their primary outside receiver being Mack Hollins. Drafting another slot guy would have been difficult to fathom, let alone spending a 1st round pick on one (and yes, I know, we picked 33rd in the end).

You are getting to hung up on calling someone a "slot" receiver.  Yes the Bolts primarily use Ladd in the slot to start plays, but at GA Ladd lined up all over the field and has done so with the Bolts.  Also starting in the slot doesn't mean you aren't running deep or boundary patterns.  Unlike Shakir, Ladd is a deep threat.  He easily could have been drafted by the Bills and utilized just like Diggs was with probably better results.

 

2024 McConkey - 69 rec, 960 yards, 13.9 yards/rec, 9.2 ybc/rec,  4.7 YAC/rec (15 games)

2023 Diggs - 107 Rec, 1183 yards, 11.1 yards/rec, 7.3 YBC/rec, 3.7 YAC/rec (17 games)

 

 

[FireChans]

58 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Because there is no advantage at all to having identical production and skill sets under cost controlled contracts for an extra 3 or 4 years. MIght as well pay the big bucks. 

Where are you getting extra 3 to 4 years?

 

Are you under the assumption that we are paying a slot WR big bucks right now? Or that we need to?

 

FWIW, Ladd will be more expensive than Shakir in cap dollars this year and next. 
 

Sure if the Chargers called and said they would trade Ladd for Shakir straight up, I think that’s probably a no-brainer. If they said they would trade us Ladd for 2 seconds, I would not bother. 
 

as good as he is been, I think we are seeing around his ceiling as far as production goes. The Chargers will of course target more receiving help and if they are successful, they will eat into Ladd’s numbers. 
 

Slot guys are nice. Great running backs are nice. Great linebackers are nice. But that’s all they are.

[FireChans]

47 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Actually it's not.  Shakir is a possession receiver catching short throws over the middle.  McConkey is bigger, faster, is better at getting open down the field and has just as good of hands.  McConkey is more of the Nacua and St Brown type "slot" receiver.  

 

Compare (through 15 games)  Note: YBC (yards before catch)

St Brown 101 rec, 1126 yards, 11.1 yards/rec, 7.4 YBC/Rec, 3.8 YAC/rec

McConkey 69 rec, 960 yards, 13.9 yards/rec, 9.2 ybc/rec,  4.7 YAC/rec

Shakir 73 rec, 796 yards, 10.9 yards/rec, 3.0 YBC/rec, 7.9 YAC/rec

 

 

Our OC can’t figure out how to get Samuel/Cooper and Shakir involved. Now you think he’s gonna figure out how to get Ladd 70 balls too when he’s already got another a lot guy on the roster?

 

Ladd would not be having this kind of year on the 2024 Bills. I think that’s pretty obvious at this point 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

You are getting to hung up on calling someone a "slot" receiver.  Yes the Bolts primarily use Ladd in the slot to start plays, but at GA Ladd lined up all over the field and has done so with the Bolts.  Also starting in the slot doesn't mean you aren't running deep or boundary patterns.  Unlike Shakir, Ladd is a deep threat.  He easily could have been drafted by the Bills and utilized just like Diggs was with probably better results.

 

2024 McConkey - 69 rec, 960 yards, 13.9 yards/rec, 9.2 ybc/rec,  4.7 YAC/rec (15 games)

2023 Diggs - 107 Rec, 1183 yards, 11.1 yards/rec, 7.3 YBC/rec, 3.7 YAC/rec (17 games)

 

 

 

I know he is more of a deep threat than Shakir. I said as much. But he is still a slot receiver and no, the Bills could not "use him like they used Stefon Diggs with probably better results." 

 

McConkey cannot be a down in and down out boundary receiver. He doesn't have the skillset to do it. I know you hate that but it is the truth.