Ladd McConkey

[gonzo1105]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Ladd's ceiling isn't high enough.

 

I felt that way then and I feel that way now.

 

He's on pace for 79 catches and 1049 yards. That's a really good season for a rookie. IMO, it will likely be one of the best seasons of his career.

 

If your going to tell me that I can get 80 catches and 1,050 yards I'm going to take it as a high 2nd round pick and you have absolutely zero clue if it will be his best season.  Please feel free to share the pace of the rest of the guys drafted this year.

[GASabresIUFan]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Ladd's ceiling isn't high enough.

 

I felt that way then and I feel that way now.

 

He's on pace for 79 catches and 1049 yards. That's a really good season for a rookie. IMO, it will likely be one of the best seasons of his career.

LOL, talk about a statement with zero evidence to support it.  How on G-d's green Earth can we possibly know what this kid's ceiling is?  What is Shakir's ceiling?  The 150 yards he had as a rookie?  McConkey literally can do anything he's asked to do.  He can play inside or outside.  He's fast.  He runs excellent routes.  He has excellent hands.  He can make tacklers miss or outrun them.  He is also a good blocker.  The only thing holding him back at all is injuries, which he's successfully playing through.  The Bills should be so lucky to have a player with his skillset.  

 

I understand why the Bills drafted Coleman and don't mind the pick, but McConkey was the better player in college and is the better player in the NFL.

 

Here are some Ladd highlights from last season at UGA.

 

Edited December 1 by GASabresIUFan

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

If your going to tell me that I can get 80 catches and 1,050 yards I'm going to take it as a high 2nd round pick and you have absolutely zero clue if it will be his best season.  Please feel free to share the pace of the rest of the guys drafted this year.

 

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

LOL, talk about a statement with zero evidence to support it.  How on G-d's green Earth can we possibly know what this kid's ceiling is?  What is Shakir's ceiling?  The 150 yards he had as a rookie?  McConkey literally can do anything he's asked to do.  He can play inside or outside.  He's fast.  He runs excellent routes.  He has excellent hands.  He can make tacklers miss or outrun them.  The only thing holding him back at all is injuries, which he's successfully playing through.  The Bills should be so lucky to have a player with his skillset.  

 

I understand why the Bills drafted Coleman and don't mind the pick, but McConkey was the better player in college and is the better player in the NFL.

so offended about an opinion on your favorite player! Sorry for sharing.

[BillsFanForever19]

It just wasn't a fit. We needed Outside guys. We had Khalil Shakir who lives in the Slot, Dalton Kincaid who is in the Slot more than at TE, and Curtis Samuel who is 50/50 inside outside. On the Outside, we had Curtis Samuel 50% of the time, Mack Hollins.... and that's it.

 

Would have made no sense to add another Slot WR and take reps away from Shakir when we had that covered and desperately needed help on the Outside. As it is, even with Drafting Coleman - we STILL needed to add another Outside guy in Cooper. McConkey's a great player, but he wasn't what we needed. It would be like us Drafting a Nickel CB this coming Draft with Taron Johnson in house and needing to find a replacement for Rasul Douglas.

[GASabresIUFan]

15 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

It just wasn't a fit. We needed Outside guys.

Coleman's size and ability to play outside was certainly a factor in drafting him, however Beane's other moves at WR diminishes that argument.  Don't forget his big FA signings were the 5'11 Curtis Samuel who plays the slot, 6'4" Mack Hollins who plays outside and then traded for 6'1 Amari Cooper to also play outside.  Had he drafted McConkey, who can play both inside and outside, he may not have needed to sign Samuel and could have used that money elsewhere and still traded for Cooper. 

 

Watching Ladd for the LAC, he is being utilized exactly as he was at UGA.  He plays inside and outside, and unlike many Bills receivers, he always finds a way to get separation or find a crease in the defense.   

Edited December 1 by GASabresIUFan

[FireChans]

Here was my comment about Ladd pre-draft, and I stand by it:

 

 

Edited December 1 by FireChans

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

45 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

LOL, talk about a statement with zero evidence to support it.  How on G-d's green Earth can we possibly know what this kid's ceiling is?  What is Shakir's ceiling?  The 150 yards he had as a rookie?  McConkey literally can do anything he's asked to do.  He can play inside or outside.  He's fast.  He runs excellent routes.  He has excellent hands.  He can make tacklers miss or outrun them.  He is also a good blocker.  The only thing holding him back at all is injuries, which he's successfully playing through.  The Bills should be so lucky to have a player with his skillset.  

 

I understand why the Bills drafted Coleman and don't mind the pick, but McConkey was the better player in college and is the better player in the NFL.

 

Here are some Ladd highlights from last season at UGA.

 

Love McConkey. 

 

It's a misconception that he slot only.

 

You're looking at the next Cooper Kupp

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

 

Watching Ladd for the LAC, he is being utilized exactly as he was at UGA.  He plays inside and outside, and unlike many Bills receivers, he always finds a way to get separation or find a crease in the defense.   

 

Let's deal in facts for a moment. 72% of his snaps in the slot. Over 80% of his production from the slot.

 

(Both those numbers going into this week). 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Let's deal in facts for a moment. 72% of his snaps in the slot. Over 80% of his production from the slot.

 

(Both those numbers going into this week). 

What is Shakir for comparison? I tried to find the numbers.

[GASabresIUFan]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Let's deal in facts for a moment. 72% of his snaps in the slot. Over 80% of his production from the slot.

 

(Both those numbers going into this week). 

Please post your source.  

 

Also lets compare usage and patterns.  Ladd's average AIR per reception is 14.7 yards.  Shakir's is 4.2.  This means that Shakir is working much closer to the line of scrimmage and Ladd is running deeper patterns more similar to Chase (13.1 yards of AIR per reception) than Shakir.

 

By the way, no key receiver in the NFL works closer to the line than Shakir.  Of the receivers with 40 or more catches, the only players close to Shakir are Wan'Dale Robinson (6.4), Chris Godwin (7.1) and Damario Douglas (8.6).

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-wr.php

 

Honestly, it's a better comparison to look at where they catch the ball vs where they start the play.

Edited December 1 by GASabresIUFan

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

What is Shakir for comparison? I tried to find the numbers.

 

76% slot and almost 90% production from there.

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Please post your source.  

 

It's PFF Premium Stats. Not the play grades. The premium stuff you have to pay for.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Please post your source.  

 

Also lets compare usage and patterns.  Ladd's average AIR per reception is 14.7 yards.  Shakir's is 4.2.  This means that Shakir is working much closer to the line of scrimmage and Ladd is running deeper patterns more similar to Chase (13.1 yards of AIR per reception) than Shakir.

 

Yea their average depth of target is 10.4 for McConkey and 4.0 for Shakir. 

 

But I have never made the argument that they are exactly the same player or used exactly the same way in their offenses (Bills and Chargers offenses are very different). Just that they are both slot receivers who do almost all their best work from the slot. 

[gonzo1105]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

76% slot and almost 90% production from there.

 

It's PFF Premium Stats. Not the play grades. The premium stuff you have to pay for.

 

I'm looking at his snaps as well. If you actually look at his % of snaps he has 3 times more in the slot which you have already established. He has 170 yards as an outside WR and 531 yards as slot. Now, obviously we can't assume that he would have the same production of course but if you reversed the roles and X3 of 170 yards he would have 510 yards if he was given the same snap % outside as he does inside. Would he be as productive? No idea but the #'s he has produced outside with the snap %s would indicate that his stats would be close and very similar without diving more into the analytics of it.

Edited December 1 by gonzo1105

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

I agree, he was my # 1 guy who would be available but you couldn’t have a conversation around here last off-season if the name wasn’t Brian Thomas, Xavier Legette, or Adonai Mitchell with a little Xavier Worthy sprinkled in. 
 

I honestly don’t believe the Bills cared a ton about size necessarily. They took the upside player in Coleman which isn’t surprising when you look at their draft history 

He was my #1 as well

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

I'm looking at his snaps as well. If you actually look at his % of snaps he has 3 times more in the slot which you have already established. He has 170 yards as an outside WR and 531 yards as slot. Now, obviously we can't assume that he would have the same production of course but if you reversed the roles and X3 of 170 yards he would have 510 yards if he was given the same snap % outside as he does inside. Would he be as productive? No idea but the #'s he has produced outside with the snap %s would indicate that his stats would be close and very similar without diving more into the analytics of it.

 

It is fair to say there isn't a big difference in terms of production per snap inside and out. Slight favour for the slot, but not a ton. 

 

I just don't know that you can extrapolate though. It's different using a guy out there a bit when you can scheme cleverly than doing it anything like consistently when teams will start making him win more convetnionally.

[gonzo1105]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is fair to say there isn't a big difference in terms of production per snap inside and out. Slight favour for the slot, but not a ton. 

 

I just don't know that you can extrapolate though. It's different using a guy out there a bit when you can scheme cleverly than doing it anything like consistently when teams will start making him win more convetnionally.

 

Right I understand that but you also have no proof that he couldn't based on your own information either besides what you believe in your scouting of the player. Its clear that the Chargers prefer him in the slot but the slot % vs the outside % based on his production as a rookie is very similar. The Stats show if given the opportunity its possible he could be as capable outside as in.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

 

Right I understand that but you also have no proof that he couldn't based on your own information either besides what you believe in your scouting of the player. Its clear that the Chargers prefer him in the slot but the slot % vs the outside % based on his production as a rookie is very similar. The Stats show if given the opportunity its possible he could be as capable outside as in.

 

I agree, I don't have proof of that. But I don't think the stats show that either. They just show at this split rate between slot and wide he is capable of producing at broadly equivalent rates. Everything after that is speculation. 

 

And it is speculation that we will likely never get an answer too. Because he is going to be a 70% plus slot guy his entire career. 

 

[Jay_Fixit]

Is a player for the Chargers.

[starrymessenger]

McConkey reminds me of JSN. Everybody expected both these guys to be good from the get go. JSN was the first receiver off the board in 2023. He would not have been in 2024. Not nearly.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

If your going to tell me that I can get 80 catches and 1,050 yards I'm going to take it as a high 2nd round pick and you have absolutely zero clue if it will be his best season.  Please feel free to share the pace of the rest of the guys drafted this year.

If we didn’t have Shakir drafting mcconkey would’ve made a lot more sense. Having Kincaid/shakir/mcconkey and no outside wr wouldve been a little nuts lol