Raiders @ Chiefs — Black Friday — 3 PM Eastern — Prime Video

[BUFFALOTONE]

8 hours ago, RiotAct said:

a 49-yarder???  No way… going for some more yards was the right call there.

You had no TOs and 15 seconds… anywhere but out of bounds and the game is over…they were at the 31 yard line… hardly a difficult kick. 

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Except he wasn't going for extra yards.  Just wanted to burn a few more seconds off the clock.  Here's the Raiders head coach (I think still) after the game, 

 

“We was gonna snap the ball and really just throw the ball out of bounds and just — the ball’s at the 32 yard line. We were gonna kill four or five more seconds and kick a 49-yard field goal."

 

Just very bad situational football.  If AOC just waited 10 seconds to spike the ball it would ensure the kick was the last play of the game.  However, he didn't.  At that point since you don't have timeouts to clearly explain what you want your QB to do then you just send the field goal offense out with 15 seconds left on the clock.  I mean it's highly unlikely that Mahomes can drive down the field with 6 or 7 seconds left.  13 maybe but not 6 or 7.

Bingo… horrible call to go for it

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

 +50ish net points for a 1 loss team has to be a massive outlier and I’d think their record would more closely line up with that as the sample size gets bigger.

 

i can’t see a typical one loss team this far into the season having any less than +100 net points really 

[Chicken Boo]

10 hours ago, Virgil said:

In all of the game reviews, there's no mention of their kicker going 1-4.  I find that bizarre. 

 

Chiefs are the luckiest team this season by far.  It's a joke that they have the 1 seed

 

My best friend and I were watching the game during the final drive and joking about how LV was gonna f this up.

 

It was a forgone conclusion, the only question was how they were going to lose it. 

[SaulGoodman]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

I agree with you 99% of the time, but not here.

 

This Chiefs team is different than the other years.

 

No other year have I seen the Chiefs look so darn crappy. Last year was the closest, but even then they looked worlds better.

Silly talk. Last year they lost at home to the same Raiders team, on Christmas, and looked way worse in the process. In ‘21, they lost 27-3 to the Titans to drop to 3-4. 
 

It’s probably a moot point anyway. They have a new LT on the way, plus 

Hollywood Brown.  Pacheco and Omenihu are working their way back into the fold. Watson might even be back for the playoffs. The team could look much different soon.

 

[SaulGoodman]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

The ‘23 Eagles won again yesterday and are on their way to finishing out doing nothing this year.

 

…and it is not going to be pretty or delightful for them when they fall later this season.

 

it is going to be bitter and ugly and I am so here for it. 
 

This is just them climbing higher on the ladder.  
 

I will so very much enjoy the “SPLAT!”

 

 

And what were your thoughts last Christmas? That team’s going to win it all in a few weeks?

[RunTheBall]

12 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

People bring up this "most interceptions overturned" thing a lot....you do realize that the vast majority of those are free plays, right? That Mahomes sees the flag and lobs up a risky pass? Maybe the refs are psychic. 

 

One stat that is legit: Mahomes has by far the most TDs nullified by penalty of any QB since he entered the league. 

Wrong.

 

Through Sept of 2024, in his career Mahomes has had 29 turnovers reversed by a defensive penalty (21 int, 8 fumbles). Of those 29, only 9 have been the result of defensive Offside, 7 picks and 2 fumbles. So out of Pat’s 29 turnovers that were reversed, you can use that “free play” for 7 of them.

 

Mahomes has BY FAR benefited the most from the overturning of his turnovers.

 

Show me the numbers of Mahomes having TDs call back by penalty. I highly doubt that.

 

[Einstein]

58 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

Silly talk. Last year they lost at home to the same Raiders team, on Christmas, and looked way worse in the process.

 

 

No they didn’t.

 

In fact, your own fan message board has a poll up right now asking which team was more vulnerable - last year or this year. The overwhelming winner in your own fans polling is this years team.

[thewookie1]

I've watched it a few more times and I have come to a conclusion.

 

The proper call was made in regards to the penalty however the play should of been nullified or called a false start anyway due to what happens at the top of the view.

 

The line judge watches the snap and immediately throws his flag and is already a yard or two on the field while waiving his arms before the Chiefs recover. That would signify an intention to whistle and call the play dead. Even though the ref is technically wrong; he has actively affected the play thus making the play null.

 

In that circumstance the refs should have called the play dead on whistle intent and called either penalty with the Raiders retaining possession. We see fumbles called back all the time due to whistles being early or a ref intending to whistle but being unable for some reason. 

 

Lastly this entire sequence gives the NFL a black eye and calls into question their legitimacy as a proper sporting competition. 

[SaulGoodman]

36 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

No they didn’t.

 

In fact, your own fan message board has a poll up right now asking which team was more vulnerable - last year or this year. The overwhelming winner in your own fans polling is this years team.

 

CP members have always been prisoners of the moment. Trust me, there was far more negativity last Christmas. 

 

Their first 3 drives in that game: 

 

3 plays, -11 yds

3 plays, -7 yds

5 plays, 8 yds

 

After a scoring drive, their next six were:

 

1 play, fumble TD

1 play, INT TD

Missed FG

Turnover on downs

3 plays, 1 yd, punt

Turnover on downs

 

It was easily the worst game a Chiefs offense has had in the Mahomes era, and it happened a month later in the season. 

 

Humphries is going to shore up LT soon. They're just waiting for him to get up to speed. He probably starts the LAC game 9 days from now. And Hollywood Brown will bring more explosiveness to the offense soon. 

 

The only real concern a rational KC fan should have is that the secondary has looked vulnerable since Watson went down. But there are no teams w/out weaknesses, especially in the AFC. 

 

[North Buffalo]

Chefs are the luckiest ref protected team in the league... gotta be up by more than a TD within 2 min or refs will screw your team... still  cant panic then anyway and kicker had missed 2... Raiders are a bad team and played them tough... Chefs O line is meh... 

[Livinginthepast]

13 hours ago, Billl said:

Cool.  Just show me a video clip with sound.  (I’ve watched it 50 times.  No whistle was blown.)

Whether he blew the whistle or didnt blow it doesnt matter in the end because I dont think they gurus in the replay booth ever review sound as evidence of a whistle or anything else. What the replay assist should have been looking at is whether a legit play ever happened. A false start or the line not being set or even not having a lineman on the line usually means no play. Which means the fumble and recovery never happened. 

 

All this being said it looked like on replay like the LV line was set and everybody in position and there was NO false start. So what was the original call on the flag? And why was it quickly overturned? I didnt see if the receivers moved early but the ref from the side calls a false start. At the end of the officials huddle and call an illegal shift (which also doesnt appear to have happened) but crucially a penalty that allows KC to decline and end the game because they recovered the ball. Of course the players on the field are all confused because some think there was a play and others thought it was blown dead!

 

This guy has an interesting review of it all:

 

https://fansided.com/did-refs-save-chiefs-with-sketchy-late-call-vs-raiders

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

sweet message from the one and only "kingdom queen"  

 

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

CP members have always been prisoners of the moment. Trust me, there was far more negativity last Christmas. 

 

I’ve been a member of that forum for a decade. This is the worst i’ve seen it in the Mahomes era.

 

Last year, you guys lost some games and looked bad at times, but there were easy reason for optimism. For example - tons and tons of dropped passes. Those are easy to clean up.

 

An you had an elite defense.

 

Right now - the defense is getting gashed by garbage teams like the Panthers and there is no easy fix for the offense.

The Chiefs are simply not a good team right now.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

Whether he blew the whistle or didnt blow it doesnt matter in the end because I dont think they gurus in the replay booth ever review sound as evidence of a whistle or anything else. What the replay assist should have been looking at is whether a legit play ever happened. A false start or the line not being set or even not having a lineman on the line usually means no play. Which means the fumble and recovery never happened. 

 

All this being said it looked like on replay like the LV line was set and everybody in position and there was NO false start. So what was the original call on the flag? And why was it quickly overturned? I didnt see if the receivers moved early but the ref from the side calls a false start. At the end of the officials huddle and call an illegal shift (which also doesnt appear to have happened) but crucially a penalty that allows KC to decline and end the game because they recovered the ball. Of course the players on the field are all confused because some think there was a play and others thought it was blown dead!

 

This guy has an interesting review of it all:

 

https://fansided.com/did-refs-save-chiefs-with-sketchy-late-call-vs-raiders

There’s no mystery to unravel here, and no call was overturned quickly nor otherwise.  The ref from the side called illegal formation, not false start.  The officials got together and determined that there were multiple players moving at the same time which requires all 11 players to be set for a full second before the snap.  This didn’t happen, and an illegal motion trumps the illegal formation because the motion happened before the snap whereas the formation, by definition, occurs during the snap.  

 

Regardless of which was called, they are enforced identically.  The play is allowed to continue, and the defense then has the opportunity to accept a 5 yard penalty and replay the down or decline the penalty and accept the result of the play.  

 

Ultimately, the refs had absolutely nothing to due with the way the game ended.  The Raiders botched the snap, and Kansas City recovered.  Game over, end of story.  People can look at the play like they’re analyzing the Zapruder film all they want, but there was no conspiracy.  Vegas snapped the ball before the QB was ready.  The QB wasn’t ready because he didn’t call for the snap.  He didn’t call for the snap because he was waiting for everyone to get set.  The Guard thought he saw the QB signal for the snap, so he tapped the Center to hike it.  Vegas wasn’t set, so there was an illegal shift flag thrown.  AOC wasn’t ready for the snap, so there was a fumble.  Kansas City recovered and declined the penalty.

[Billl]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I've watched it a few more times and I have come to a conclusion.

 

The proper call was made in regards to the penalty however the play should of been nullified or called a false start anyway due to what happens at the top of the view.

 

The line judge watches the snap and immediately throws his flag and is already a yard or two on the field while waiving his arms before the Chiefs recover. That would signify an intention to whistle and call the play dead. Even though the ref is technically wrong; he has actively affected the play thus making the play null.

 

In that circumstance the refs should have called the play dead on whistle intent and called either penalty with the Raiders retaining possession. We see fumbles called back all the time due to whistles being early or a ref intending to whistle but being unable for some reason. 

 

Lastly this entire sequence gives the NFL a black eye and calls into question their legitimacy as a proper sporting competition. 

The ref didn’t blow a whistle.  Even if he did, there was a clear and obvious recovery of the fumble.  The funny part of the fan fiction above is that, if they had ruled the play dead due to an inadvertent whistle, the game would have ended right then and there and the same people complaining that the officials got it right would be complaining that they got it wrong.  An inadvertent whistle during a live ball requires a 10 second runoff, and that would have ended the game.

[Andrew Son]

@Billl is a whisker away from arguing with Bill Nye about natural gas law

[Motorin']

4 hours ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

You had no TOs and 15 seconds… anywhere but out of bounds and the game is over…they were at the 31 yard line… hardly a difficult kick. 

Bingo… horrible call to go for it

 

They were so dumb to spike it with 15 secs left. The HC needs to make sure he takes it down to 3 seconds before the spike.

 

Now, the Chiefs probably realizes this a call TO with 12 seconds left ...

 

But that gives the Raiders ample time to get the FG unit out there and setup for the kick. 

[Billl]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

No they didn’t.

 

In fact, your own fan message board has a poll up right now asking which team was more vulnerable - last year or this year. The overwhelming winner in your own fans polling is this years team.

Well yeah.  They’ve got the benefit of hindsight and know that last year’s team won the Super Bowl.  There’s nobody who felt better about the team last year when they were 8-6 than they currently do about this year’s team at 11-1.  The funny thing is that this team would likely get more credit if they were 9-3.  Instead, they’re being criticized for winning consecutive games they led for a combined 100+ minutes of game time.

[4merper4mer]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

The ref didn’t blow a whistle.  Even if he did, there was a clear and obvious recovery of the fumble.  The funny part of the fan fiction above is that, if they had ruled the play dead due to an inadvertent whistle, the game would have ended right then and there and the same people complaining that the officials got it right would be complaining that they got it wrong.  An inadvertent whistle during a live ball requires a 10 second runoff, and that would have ended the game.

The ref was signaling false start, which implies a whistle.  How would that be inadvertent?

 

Why did zero refs signal a fumble recovery by the Chiefs?  Does that seem odd at all to you?

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

Whether he blew the whistle or didnt blow it doesnt matter in the end because I dont think they gurus in the replay booth ever review sound as evidence of a whistle or anything else. What the replay assist should have been looking at is whether a legit play ever happened. A false start or the line not being set or even not having a lineman on the line usually means no play. Which means the fumble and recovery never happened. 

 

All this being said it looked like on replay like the LV line was set and everybody in position and there was NO false start. So what was the original call on the flag? And why was it quickly overturned? I didnt see if the receivers moved early but the ref from the side calls a false start. At the end of the officials huddle and call an illegal shift (which also doesnt appear to have happened) but crucially a penalty that allows KC to decline and end the game because they recovered the ball. Of course the players on the field are all confused because some think there was a play and others thought it was blown dead!

 

This guy has an interesting review of it all:

 

https://fansided.com/did-refs-save-chiefs-with-sketchy-late-call-vs-raiders

 

Bowers was moving at the time of the snap. He was waving his arms telling the outside wr to back off the line. 

 

I guess the question is, if there's a illegal shift and at the same time a wr on the line is moving at the time of the snap, is that not also a false start?