Raiders @ Chiefs — Black Friday — 3 PM Eastern — Prime Video

[Richard Noggin]

[RiotAct]

15 minutes ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

Just kick the FG on 3rd down… I’d fire AP before he got to the locker room. No time outs…absolutely horrific. 

a 49-yarder???  No way… going for some more yards was the right call there.

[The Wiz]

 

[Herc11]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Chiefs don't need to take risks to win these games. They trust their defense, or when all else fails their special teams. Why wouldn't they? Someone is going to step up and make the play, or the other team will wilt under the pressure.

Or he relies on the refs giving a favorable call or no-call 😂

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTYSdFksG/

[Herc11]

6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

The only player not ready for the snap was the QB.   They had a silent count and the guard tapped the center.   All the offensive players started when he snapped it.  How is that a penalty? 

 

It shoulda just been a fumble and KC ball.

 

It's whatever.   KC won't get out of the divisional round anyway.

 

Look again, I believe it was the TE who was turned to the WR waving his arm telling the Wr to back off the LOS. The ball is snapped, he has no idea, then turns and gets into a 3 point stance as everyone else is running by him. He was on the side the ref was that called false start and it absolutely should of been a false start as he was never set.

Edited November 30 by Herc11

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Chiefs don't need to take risks to win these games. They trust their defense, or when all else fails their special teams. Why wouldn't they? Someone is going to step up and make the play, or the other team will wilt under the pressure.

I don’t think their defense is gonna be able to carry them against the better teams the rest of the way…everyone is just picking on that other corner spot.  Those blitzes just aren’t hitting like they used to without sticky corners on both sides of the field.  On the flip side teams are bringing a ton of pressure and those offensive tackles just aren’t cutting it. 

 

Their good injury luck last year that was the driving force in their superbowl win last season has been evening out as it often does.  Crazy they went into this year which such bad corner depth…you’re pretty much destined to lose one 

Seems like a huge uphill battle for them X’s and O’s wise in the playoffs this year but you never know.  
 

Don’t need to take risks is weird thing to say…they were a totally unforced boneheaded raiders error away from probably coughing up the 1 seed.  I can understand saying that about a blocked fg…that’s your guys making a play on special teams.  but a botched silent snap count by your opponent is dumb luck.  I’m sure they know they played poorly and were fortunate to win today 

Edited November 30 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[MJS]

5 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Don’t consider their Dcrfense elite.   Top 12 but not rkite

I think it is elite. 8th in points against. 3rd in yards. 6th in yards per play. They have one of the top defenses in the league this year for sure. Their defensive coordinator routinely steps up in critical situations and games, too.

[90sBills]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think it is elite. 8th in points against. 3rd in yards. 6th in yards per play. They have one of the top defenses in the league this year for sure. Their defensive coordinator routinely steps up in critical situations and games, too.

They haven’t played like an elite defense the last few weeks. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

21 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

They haven’t played like an elite defense the last few weeks. 

Teams are really going after whoever they line up at cb2 as the season goes on…their corner depth was abysmal they lost Watson and have fallen off a cliff.  Looked like they benched Nazeeh Johnson midgame today.  Wheels are definitely starting to come off a little bit 

 

question is can the offense find another gear to keep winning games.  I think with their tackle situation probably not but you never know 

Edited November 30 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[90sBills]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Teams are really going after whoever they line up at cb2 as the season goes on…their corner depth was abysmal they lost Watson and have fallen off a cliff.  Looked like they benched Nazeeh Johnson midgame today.  Wheels are definitely starting to come off a little bit 

 

question is can the offense find another gear to keep winning games.  I think with their tackle situation probably not but you never know 

Yeah Watson gave them the flexibility to let Snead walked in the offseason. Now that Watson is hurt it’s a huge liability. They also benched their LT Morris during the game. Their offense will struggle unless that situation gets better.

[folz]

5 hours ago, Billl said:

Guess why this is a screenshot and not a video.  It’s because there was no whistle, and the refs got it correct.

 

2 hours ago, Billl said:

There is literally nothing to complain about here.

LOL, this screenshot of a ref supposedly blowing the play dead before it started was taken 3 seconds after the play was over.  You can see that Chiefs players are signaling first down, and the Raiders player is literally holding his hands over his face in disbelief.  

 

2 hours ago, Billl said:

You can’t see pre snap movement because there wasn’t any.  The ref from the far side was signaling illegal formation.  They discussed it and decided that it was an illegal shift.  When multiple players are moving at the same time prior to the snap, they all have to set for a full second prior to the snap or it’s an illegal shift.  That didn’t even come close to happening.  Either call would have had the exact same result, though.  The play continues, and the defense can accept or decline the penalty.  

 

They showed several replays, and it was clear that the officials got it 100% correct.  There was confusion amongst the players and even the commentators, but the way it was officiated isn’t even up for debate.

 

I get how there is confusion about what happened on this play. First of all, the TV coverage does not show us well what happened before the snap on the live play because they are in a close-up of O'Connell until AFTER the ball has already been snapped (i.e., you can't tell who has been set and for how long). Then the second replay is tight on the ball, so again, does not show us anything. The third replay, everyone is set, except for #87, the TE on the left side of the line who is motioning out to the WR to move back. The ball is snapped when #87 is still standing and waving his arm. But, we cannot see the WR in this camera angle. Going back to the live play, you can see the WR maybe hop back a step at the TEs request, but again, the ball has already been snapped. Everyone moved on the snap of the ball except for O'Connell, #87, and the WRs.

 

The other problem is that the NFL's signal for both false start and illegal formation is the same. That is dumb on the NFL's part. Why should two different penalties have the same signal. 

 

BUT...the call that was made by the head judge was not illegal formation, it was illegal shift. Illegal shift has a different signal from illegal formation/false start. 

 

So, the only way the refs got this right is if the ref at the top of the screen is calling illegal formation and the ref at the bottom of the screen is calling illegal shift and the head judge after listening to both of them believed illegal shift was the more correct call and overruled the ref at the top of the screen. Unfortunately, we can't see from the TV coverage (maybe we can when the All-22 comes out) what the ref at the bottom of the screen is calling. Another element of confusion.

 

BUT...does a side judge immediately run onto the field if the play is still live? Which it would be for illegal formation. The ref at the bottom of the screen (who apparently called the illegal shift) does not run onto the field. He stays on the sideline because to him it is still a live play. If the ref at the top of the screen is calling illegal formation, the play is still live and I don't think he would immediately run towards the middle of the field. Also, you can clearly see him put his whistle to his mouth before the recovery of the football. And he has no vantage point to even see if there was a recovery to blow the play dead at that point. Plus he is looking at the head judge, not the ball. If he thinks it's still a live play, he doesn't put his whistle to his mouth to blow before there is a recovery, and he would be following the ball, not running towards and looking at the head judge. So, I think he was clearly calling a false start penalty on #87 because he is clearly moving before and during the snap. It was also obvious that the Raiders all believed that the ref was calling a false start penalty. The center even motions false start to his coaches on the sideline, saying its ok..false start. Just because the refs reaction time on his whistle may have been slow, does not mean he wasn't calling a pre-snap penalty. He is  starting to wave his hands declaring a dead play before the recovery. You don't do that if the ball is still live and unrecovered,

 

And at that point, as soon as that ref calls false start, the play is dead and it doesn't matter what the other ref called. Plus the other refs call came after the ref at the top of the screen, also kind of indicating that they were probably making different calls. One that tends to get blown before a play and one that tends to get called at the snap of the ball. 

 

Once a play is ruled dead in the NFL, nothing else matters. Play is dead. You can't undo a dead play. We've seen it hundreds of times---a ref makes a mistake by blowing his whistle even though he shouldn't have and the team would have made a big play. Everyone knows that ref was wrong for blowing that inadvertent whistle, but they never change it because it's only fair to the team that would have had the big play. No, it's just sorry...dead ball. You can't overrule a false start penalty and let the play stand. It's against the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Billzgobowlin]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

I think it is elite. 8th in points against. 3rd in yards. 6th in yards per play. They have one of the top defenses in the league this year for sure. Their defensive coordinator routinely steps up in critical situations and games, too.

If that's considered elite numbers we probably need to redefine elite.  Top 3 in those categories is more elite but ultimately Ravens 2000, Bears 1985 are elite defenses.

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, Billl said:

A still shot taken after the snap.  For anyone arguing with the way it played out, how do you think it should have been officiated?

 

 There were several players who were moving just prior to the snap.  They didn’t all get set for a second.  The ball was snapped.  That constitutes an illegal shift which is a live ball foul.  The snap was fumbled and recovered by Kansas City.  Chiefs ball.  What is the possible alternative?

Yes, I was pointing out the absurdity of the guy saying that the Patriots were better because New England won games with special teams whereas the Chiefs don’t.  

Yes-  that’s an absurd statement.

 

 

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, RiotAct said:

a 49-yarder???  No way… going for some more yards was the right call there.

Except he wasn't going for extra yards.  Just wanted to burn a few more seconds off the clock.  Here's the Raiders head coach (I think still) after the game, 

 

“We was gonna snap the ball and really just throw the ball out of bounds and just — the ball’s at the 32 yard line. We were gonna kill four or five more seconds and kick a 49-yard field goal."

 

Just very bad situational football.  If AOC just waited 10 seconds to spike the ball it would ensure the kick was the last play of the game.  However, he didn't.  At that point since you don't have timeouts to clearly explain what you want your QB to do then you just send the field goal offense out with 15 seconds left on the clock.  I mean it's highly unlikely that Mahomes can drive down the field with 6 or 7 seconds left.  13 maybe but not 6 or 7.

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

The ‘23 Eagles won again yesterday and are on their way to finishing out doing nothing this year.

 

…and it is not going to be pretty or delightful for them when they fall later this season.

 

it is going to be bitter and ugly and I am so here for it. 
 

This is just them climbing higher on the ladder.  
 

I will so very much enjoy the “SPLAT!”

 

 

Edited November 30 by dollars 2 donuts

[BRH]

11 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Record is not all that matters when you are trying to predict future outcomes. There are many examples of teams with great records not reflective of their play at this point in the season that fall apart or predictably get bounced early in the playoffs. The Eagles last year, the Vikings the year they beat the Bills in OT, the Steelers when they had washed Big Ben leading them. That's just off the top of my mind, there are more. I know they are the masters of the one score game, but they aren't skillfully defeating their opponents this year, they are relying on dumb luck and in a couple of games favorable calls from the refs at crucial moments.

Dick Jauron’s 13-3 2001 Bears team is a patron saint of that group.  Lost their first playoff game, at home, by two touchdowns.  

[WotAGuy]

10 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

One stat that is legit: Mahomes has by far the most TDs nullified by penalty of any QB since he entered the league. 

Well, when you cheat, sometimes you’re gonna get caught. 

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, folz said:

 

 

 

I get how there is confusion about what happened on this play. First of all, the TV coverage does not show us well what happened before the snap on the live play because they are in a close-up of O'Connell until AFTER the ball has already been snapped (i.e., you can't tell who has been set and for how long). Then the second replay is tight on the ball, so again, does not show us anything. The third replay, everyone is set, except for #87, the TE on the left side of the line who is motioning out to the WR to move back. The ball is snapped when #87 is still standing and waving his arm. But, we cannot see the WR in this camera angle. Going back to the live play, you can see the WR maybe hop back a step at the TEs request, but again, the ball has already been snapped. Everyone moved on the snap of the ball except for O'Connell, #87, and the WRs.

 

The other problem is that the NFL's signal for both false start and illegal formation is the same. That is dumb on the NFL's part. Why should two different penalties have the same signal. 

 

BUT...the call that was made by the head judge was not illegal formation, it was illegal shift. Illegal shift has a different signal from illegal formation/false start. 

 

So, the only way the refs got this right is if the ref at the top of the screen is calling illegal formation and the ref at the bottom of the screen is calling illegal shift and the head judge after listening to both of them believed illegal shift was the more correct call and overruled the ref at the top of the screen. Unfortunately, we can't see from the TV coverage (maybe we can when the All-22 comes out) what the ref at the bottom of the screen is calling. Another element of confusion.

 

BUT...does a side judge immediately run onto the field if the play is still live? Which it would be for illegal formation. The ref at the bottom of the screen (who apparently called the illegal shift) does not run onto the field. He stays on the sideline because to him it is still a live play. If the ref at the top of the screen is calling illegal formation, the play is still live and I don't think he would immediately run towards the middle of the field. Also, you can clearly see him put his whistle to his mouth before the recovery of the football. And he has no vantage point to even see if there was a recovery to blow the play dead at that point. Plus he is looking at the head judge, not the ball. If he thinks it's still a live play, he doesn't put his whistle to his mouth to blow before there is a recovery, and he would be following the ball, not running towards and looking at the head judge. So, I think he was clearly calling a false start penalty on #87 because he is clearly moving before and during the snap. It was also obvious that the Raiders all believed that the ref was calling a false start penalty. The center even motions false start to his coaches on the sideline, saying its ok..false start. Just because the refs reaction time on his whistle may have been slow, does not mean he wasn't calling a pre-snap penalty. He is  starting to wave his hands declaring a dead play before the recovery. You don't do that if the ball is still live and unrecovered,

 

And at that point, as soon as that ref calls false start, the play is dead and it doesn't matter what the other ref called. Plus the other refs call came after the ref at the top of the screen, also kind of indicating that they were probably making different calls. One that tends to get blown before a play and one that tends to get called at the snap of the ball. 

 

Once a play is ruled dead in the NFL, nothing else matters. Play is dead. You can't undo a dead play. We've seen it hundreds of times---a ref makes a mistake by blowing his whistle even though he shouldn't have and the team would have made a big play. Everyone knows that ref was wrong for blowing that inadvertent whistle, but they never change it because it's only fair to the team that would have had the big play. No, it's just sorry...dead ball. You can't overrule a false start penalty and let the play stand. It's against the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also the ref never identified the number of the player who “illegally shifted”.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

If that's considered elite numbers we probably need to redefine elite.  Top 3 in those categories is more elite but ultimately Ravens 2000, Bears 1985 are elite defenses.

I'm not talking about historically elite.

[stevewin]

9 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Yea I’m not really getting this ‘they won the Super Bowl last year so there can’t be any luck involved’ argument.  

This for me.  And the "wins are all that matters' argument that is supposed to somehow negate luck and favorable calls.  The whole point is that is contributing to the wins - they are related, not separate