Raiders @ Chiefs — Black Friday — 3 PM Eastern — Prime Video

[mannc]

13 minutes ago, bills742 said:

Any team that has a good D-line will continue to abuse their tackles and no quarterback no matter how talented is completely immune to pressure. 

Imagine what Garrett will do to them in Cleveland…

[mikemac2001]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Imagine what Garrett will do to them in Cleveland…

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

A still shot taken after the snap.  For anyone arguing with the way it played out, how do you think it should have been officiated?

 

 There were several players who were moving just prior to the snap.  They didn’t all get set for a second.  The ball was snapped.  That constitutes an illegal shift which is a live ball foul.  The snap was fumbled and recovered by Kansas City.  Chiefs ball.  What is the possible alternative?

Yes, I was pointing out the absurdity of the guy saying that the Patriots were better because New England won games with special teams whereas the Chiefs don’t.  

At the end of the day if it was officiated correctly from the get go it probably should have been chiefs ball, BUT...

The official came in and called a false start which means the play is dead. And watching it live you can literally hear him blow the whistle while the ball was still free.

 

The refs realized their mistake, and changed it to an illegal shift to try to correct it. That's not right 

Edited November 30 by BillsFan130

[TH3]

29 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Lucky? Going back to the playoffs last year they've won 12 one score games. Assuming a 50% chance of victory in each one, that's a 1 in 4,096 chance if it's based on pure luck. And it isn't just the dregs of the league they're doing this to. In that time they've done it to the Bills, the Ravens (twice), the 49ers, the Bengals, the Broncos... The result is the result. Chiefs find a way to win these games no matter the quality of their opponent. I don't see any of their remaining opponents this year getting up by two scores with 2 minutes to go which is why I'm predicting 16-1. We're the only team (with the only player) that's shown the ability to do what needs to be done in crunch time to beat them.

 

All those stats seem great …a great way to explain how lucky they are.  See the gift of the undead play today.

[Goin Breakdown]

46 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Ya so center snapped early qb wasn’t ready 

 

ref blew whistle and signaled false start then they called it illegal shift (not sure any raiders were moving) and called it a live ball KC recovered even after a dead ball blown whistle 

 

this was after the huddled up but you shouldn’t be able to just change the call and especially after it was blown dead for a dead ball foul 

So frustrating reading this (or having to watch it week in and week out with this team. 

[Einstein]

52 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Lucky? Going back to the playoffs last year they've won 12 one score games. Assuming a 50% chance of victory in each one, that's a 1 in 4,096 chance if it's based on pure luck. And it isn't just the dregs of the league they're doing this to. In that time they've done it to the Bills, the Ravens (twice), the 49ers, the Bengals, the Broncos... The result is the result. Chiefs find a way to win these games no matter the quality of their opponent. I don't see any of their remaining opponents this year getting up by two scores with 2 minutes to go which is why I'm predicting 16-1. We're the only team (with the only player) that's shown the ability to do what needs to be done in crunch time to beat them.

 

 

I agree with you 99% of the time, but not here.

 

This Chiefs team is different than the other years.

 

No other year have I seen the Chiefs look so darn crappy. Last year was the closest, but even then they looked worlds better.

[Virgil]

In all of the game reviews, there's no mention of their kicker going 1-4.  I find that bizarre. 

 

Chiefs are the luckiest team this season by far.  It's a joke that they have the 1 seed

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, Virgil said:

In all of the game reviews, there's no mention of their kicker going 1-4.  I find that bizarre. 

 

Chiefs are the luckiest team this season by far.  It's a joke that they have the 1 seed

Yea I’m not really getting this ‘they won the Super Bowl last year so there can’t be any luck involved’ argument.  They are beating bad teams in unsustainable ways.  Panthers game id give them full credit for because mahomes went down and sealed it late but to me the broncos/raiders games were mostly dumb luck.  I’d throw falcons in there too as that missed dpi was absolutely egregious. 
 

They’re a 9-3 team masquerading as an 11-1 team for me. Still great but with quite a few question marks 

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, paulmm3 said:

Refs botched this one bad. There was no illegal shift - show me who moves for the Raiders. Second - they blew the play dead before the recovery. 

 

NFLs statement on this...

 

Quote

"Had the clock been running at the snap, then by rule an illegal shift would convert to a false start," a league spokesman said, via The Athletic. "Since the clock was stopped (spike on the second-down play), an illegal shift is a live ball foul."

 

I did not know this. Learn something new all the time.  Also, I did not see an illegal shift. I did see a receiver was still getting to his initial spot to set and wasnt set in time. I guess that is what they are calling the illegal shift.  Not entirely sure how that rule plays out to be honest.

Also IIRC you cant really overrule a whistle that blows a play dead and the whistle blew before the ball was recovered. How is that fair if they blow a play dead to give the ball to the other team.

Edited November 30 by Scott7975

[Billl]

There is literally nothing to complain about here.

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

LOL, this screenshot of a ref supposedly blowing the play dead before it started was taken 3 seconds after the play was over.  You can see that Chiefs players are signaling first down, and the Raiders player is literally holding his hands over his face in disbelief.  

[without a drought]

If the Chiefs played the Bears, would the Chiefs win on the opening play or would the Bears just forfeit to save the embarrassment.

[Dafan]

23 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

NFLs statement on this...

 

 

I did not know this. Learn something new all the time.  Also, I did not see an illegal shift. I did see a receiver was still getting to his initial spot to set and wasnt set in time. I guess that is what they are calling the illegal shift.  Not entirely sure how that rule plays out to be honest.

Also IIRC you cant really overrule a whistle that blows a play dead and the whistle blew before the ball was recovered. How is that fair if they blow a play dead to give the ball to the other team.

Regardless of what the official rule/call was...the ref blew the whistle and ran into the play field to end play before ball was recovered.  That is all that matters.  

[mikemac2001]

16 minutes ago, Billl said:

There is literally nothing to complain about here.

LOL, this screenshot of a ref supposedly blowing the play dead before it started was taken 3 seconds after the play was over.  You can see that Chiefs players are signaling first down, and the Raiders player is literally holding his hands over his face in disbelief.  

Just odd why are two flags thrown can’t see the presnap movements happening either since the camera was on the qbs neck 

 

all you can see if the false start from ref and blowing whistle which is causing more confusion 

 

if your throwing a flag and then saying false start why did it change after the huddle up.

 

probably was a fumbled snap but idk why they didn’t show the play or have any footage of the play before the snap 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

22 minutes ago, Billl said:

There is literally nothing to complain about here.

LOL, this screenshot of a ref supposedly blowing the play dead before it started was taken 3 seconds after the play was over.  You can see that Chiefs players are signaling first down, and the Raiders player is literally holding his hands over his face in disbelief.  

Agreed.  It's honestly just easier to say it's why the Raiders are 2-10 and that Pierce should've never been hired in the first place.

[Einstein]

30 minutes ago, Billl said:

There is literally nothing to complain about here.

LOL, this screenshot of a ref supposedly blowing the play dead before it started was taken 3 seconds after the play was over.  You can see that Chiefs players are signaling first down, and the Raiders player is literally holding his hands over his face in disbelief.  

 

you’re looking at the wrong ref

[Billl]

7 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Just odd why are two flags thrown can’t see the presnap movements happening either since the camera was on the qbs neck 

 

all you can see if the false start from ref and blowing whistle which is causing more confusion 

 

if your throwing a flag and then saying false start why did it change after the huddle up.

 

probably was a fumbled snap but idk why they didn’t show the play or have any footage of the play before the snap 

 

 

You can’t see pre snap movement because there wasn’t any.  The ref from the far side was signaling illegal formation.  They discussed it and decided that it was an illegal shift.  When multiple players are moving at the same time prior to the snap, they all have to set for a full second prior to the snap or it’s an illegal shift.  That didn’t even come close to happening.  Either call would have had the exact same result, though.  The play continues, and the defense can accept or decline the penalty.  

 

They showed several replays, and it was clear that the officials got it 100% correct.  There was confusion amongst the players and even the commentators, but the way it was officiated isn’t even up for debate.

[4merper4mer]

21 minutes ago, Billl said:

You can’t see pre snap movement because there wasn’t any.  The ref from the far side was signaling illegal formation.  They discussed it and decided that it was an illegal shift.  When multiple players are moving at the same time prior to the snap, they all have to set for a full second prior to the snap or it’s an illegal shift.  That didn’t even come close to happening.  Either call would have had the exact same result, though.  The play continues, and the defense can accept or decline the penalty.  

 

They showed several replays, and it was clear that the officials got it 100% correct.  There was confusion amongst the players and even the commentators, but the way it was officiated isn’t even up for debate.

1.  What was the ref at the top of the screen signaling?

2.  How many refs signaled that the Chiefs gained possession?

2A. How many times have you seen zero refs signal a turnover but then award a turnover, excluding replays to discern if a player was down?

Edited November 30 by 4merper4mer

[BUFFALOTONE]

Just kick the FG on 3rd down… I’d fire AP before he got to the locker room. No time outs…absolutely horrific. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

You can’t see pre snap movement because there wasn’t any.  The ref from the far side was signaling illegal formation.  They discussed it and decided that it was an illegal shift.  When multiple players are moving at the same time prior to the snap, they all have to set for a full second prior to the snap or it’s an illegal shift.  That didn’t even come close to happening.  Either call would have had the exact same result, though.  The play continues, and the defense can accept or decline the penalty.  

 

They showed several replays, and it was clear that the officials got it 100% correct.  There was confusion amongst the players and even the commentators, but the way it was officiated isn’t even up for debate.

 

I'd have to call this a false start and not an illegal shift.There is a distinct replay where you can see #87 on the Raiders not set and waving his arm around right before the snap.

 

Obviously screen shots are going to suck when looking at a false start, but you can see the center started the snapping motion here while #87 is moving his arm. You can watch a replay on your own through Prime if you want

 

https://imgur.com/a/GmbmzQ4

 

You could argue that this qualifies as both an illegal shift and a false start per the letter of the law of the rulebook. I think the spirit of the rule would call this a false start. In real game situations I think 99% of refs would have called this a false start instead of an illegal shift. 

[Scott7975]